Gamespot E3 First Look Preview

[Wrath of Dagon]

NWN2 was plenty long enough, I wonder what the direct comparison to AP would be.

[GhostofAnakin]

20 hrs sounds pretty short for an RPG, where are those DX comparisons now?

 

Most RPGs today tend to be around that length (not counting JRPGs). Jade Empire, NWN2, KOTOR II, and Mass Effect were somewhere about 20 hours in length.

 

Unfortunately, that seems to be the new trend.

[J.E. Sawyer]

NWN2 was twenty hours long?

[Kelverin]

NWN2 was twenty hours long?

More like 50 - 80 hours for me, it can be longer if you read everything, spend a lot of time crafting..... NWN2 was hardly short.

[Patrick K Mills]

NWN2 was twenty hours long?

 

The collector's edition was laced with rohypnol.

[GhostofAnakin]

NWN2 was twenty hours long?

 

It's been a while since I played it, so apparently my estimate was off. But I don't remember it being super long, like the old BG games.

[Patrick K Mills]

It's been a while since I played it, so apparently my estimate was off. But I don't remember it being super long, like the old BG games.

 

It was really, really, really long, dude.

[GhostofAnakin]

I must have got a glitchy version of the game then. Mine was no longer than 20 hours.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's hard to say exactly, but in standard reviewer hours, Jade was about 20 hrs long, KOTOR's were about 40, NWN2 may be a bit longer, it was just so slow because of inventory and crafting, argh. ME was about the length of Jade if you don't do the Uncharted World tedium.

[Xard]

It's been a while since I played it, so apparently my estimate was off. But I don't remember it being super long, like the old BG games.

 

It was really, really, really long, dude.

 

Yeah

 

 

TOO long considering the general quality of it

 

 

OC had great moments and things in it (The Trial, Jerro's Haven, bard competition, the whole Keep thing, LotResque end battle sequences...) but most of it was....bleeergghh. Most of those 50 hours was spent roaming in horrible dungeons such as orc caves or warehouse *shudder*

 

Compare that to MotB which was 20 to 25 hours game. Twas pure gold

[GhostofAnakin]

I must be easy to please. I actually have no major gripes about the NWN2 OC.

[Wrath of Dagon]

MotB still seems to have a lot of dungeons, dungeons you can't fricking see anything because it's dark!

[Patrick K Mills]

The city watch section was designed with the intention of making you feel the drudgery and tedium of a REAL city watchmen.

 

Pretend that I just posted this on my secret non-dev account, OK?

[themadhatter114]

NWN2 was twenty hours long?

 

Eh, I can't find anything now. Could have been a different game. But I vaguely remember an interview with some European site where Feargus said NWN2's campaign would be 20 hours, which brought ridicule at the Codex and then backtracking by the devs. However, 20 hours is probably about right if you click through all the dialogues, know exactly what to do, and rush through the game.

[Volourn]

"Most RPGs today tend to be around that length (not counting JRPGs). Jade Empire, NWN2, KOTOR II, and Mass Effect were somewhere about 20 hours in length."

 

None of those games were 20 hours, and NWN2 was the longest.

 

JE: 30

ME: 40

KOTOR2: 35

NWN2 - 55

[Xard]

I must be easy to please. I actually have no major gripes about the NWN2 OC.

 

you CAN'T like orc caves

 

You just can't.

 

SRSLY

 

(Arcanum and) NWN2 OC had some worst dungeons I've ever encountered.

 

somewhat related silly rant:

 

(as I'm been replaying PS:T I have to say it is stunning how even PST combat > NWN1 HOTU combat > MotB combat > Bloodlines combat > ToEE combat* > NWN2 OC combat > NWN1 OC & SOU combat > Kotor combat > Arcanum *pukes* combat)

 

I mean, it is quite horrible. PS:T (which is in combat department easily weakest of IE games) when using second hardest and hardest combat settings is actually occasionally rather challenging (dozen of crazed xaositects attacking my party or angered green abishai grilling me) and even overall I certainly can't leave combat just on "auto". It is even fun most of the time, simply because I actually have to worry about my party members dying (of course that doesn't matter with TNO), concentrate attacks on certain enemies and position my characters with care. I simply cannot leave for coffee, I have to - zomg - participate. For example this is case in entire Modron cube where I've been farming exp lately.

 

Not to forget IE did whole RTwP system best from games I've encountered. It is more "responsive" and less clunky than Aurora and other games using engines derived from it. That alone renders the combat more enjoyable

 

And this is game where combat difficulty doesn't mean ****, simply because for the most of the game "losing" is impossible by the plot alone. I used to laugh at Roshan when he defended PS:T combat (because I compared it to other IE games), but if compared to most of the 2000 RPG combats it is actually passable and entertaining.

 

So what I'm trying to say Alpha Protocol and SoZ must try hard to fail at combat compared to rest of modern RPG's. Excluding infinite ammo anything else seems to point at AP will have best RPG combat I've encountered, like, ever ( I don't care much for Wizardry and its ilk which presumably feature fantastic combat). At least it should be best since (and maybe even better) since IWD1.

 

You can consider that last part as demand

 

[/rant end here]

 

Oh well, Obz has always underestimated lenght of their games IMO.

 

And that 20 hours is propably only main campaign, not the sidequests etc.

 

*ToEE has fantastic combat SYSTEM, but encounter design sucked. Shame nobody ever choosed to use the engine, it held a lot potential *hint hint*

 

edit: some additions to rant

Edited July 23, 2008 by Xard

[Xard]

MotB still seems to have a lot of dungeons, dungeons you can't fricking see anything because it's dark!

 

Different being MotB dungeons actually are passable and some even relatively enjoyable

 

Actually there's only two of them and other is rather good combatwise

[Kelverin]

However, 20 hours is probably about right if you click through all the dialogues, know exactly what to do, and rush through the game.

 

I call bull****. NWN2 was many things, but short it aint

[themadhatter114]

However, 20 hours is probably about right if you click through all the dialogues, know exactly what to do, and rush through the game.

 

I call bull****. NWN2 was many things, but short it aint

 

Since when is 20 hours short when you are skipping through all the cut-scenes and dialogues and know exactly what to do for every quest? Especially once you know that the outcome of the trial is completely irrelevant, thus you can skip all the fact-finding?

 

Sure, I probably spent 60 or so hours the first playthrough. But playing again with another good character doesn't take very long.

 

Heck, I probably put 30 hours or so into MotB, and then realized on another playthrough that I could play through it in about 8 if I didn't do any sidequests.

 

You can't call a game short just because someone can beat it quickly if they try hard enough. Check out some sites for speed runs of different games. Fallout it under 10 minutes. Torment in 1 hour. I don't see what the big deal is in saying that you could finish NWN2 in 20 if you tried.

[GhostofAnakin]

"Most RPGs today tend to be around that length (not counting JRPGs). Jade Empire, NWN2, KOTOR II, and Mass Effect were somewhere about 20 hours in length."

 

None of those games were 20 hours, and NWN2 was the longest.

 

JE: 30

ME: 40

KOTOR2: 35

NWN2 - 55

 

I'm not talking about if you sit around and play pazzaak for hours, or do those silly JE sidequests where you play Space Invaders, or watch scenery. JE and ME are definitely closer to 20 hours than your estimates. For example, I'm on my second play through as a Renegade Shepard, and my last save was at 43 hours, as I touched down on Ilos. Give or take another 5 or 6 hours, and I'm at 50 hours for two play throughs, which averages out to 25. So I'm not sure where you get 40 hours.

 

Your KOTOR2 estimate might be close, although the only time I took over 30 hours was on my first play through when I literally took forever just to look around at the various environments and planets. After that, my games were closer to about 23 or 24 hours.

 

The only one I'll concede I was wrong with was NWN2. The others may not be *exactly* 20 hours, but were very close to it.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's useless to argue how long a particular game takes someone, everyone plays at different speeds. That's why I try to use standard reviewer hours, or compare well known games to each other. Also when talking about game length, it's more useful to compare normal first time playthroughs, including all sidequests.

[Joseph Bulock]

I must be easy to please. I actually have no major gripes about the NWN2 OC.

 

you CAN'T like orc caves

 

You just can't.

 

SRSLY

 

 

I really liked the Orc caves, and I've played them at least 50 times.

[Pidesco]

I didn't like the orc caves themselves in particualr, but I rather liked the open mountain bits where you kicked the snot out of the orcs in a wide open plain. It was the first time in NWN2 for me where the combat didn't feel mostly like a chore.

[Starwars]

I can't think of a particular moment in the NWN2 OC where I felt the encounters were particularly inspiring to tell the truth. Maybe some of the Shadow Reaver fights and the dragon fights. I did like the general feel of the Crossroad Keep battle though, where it felt like the "endurance test against bazillions of weak enemies" felt somewhat empowering.

 

MotB was better. It's still not what I'd call good, but the fact that it's mostly lacking that "hordes of samey enemies" and has quite a few unique encounters really does a lot to ease the tedium. There were also a few times where I fully admit to getting the snot kicked out of me, which was a surprisingly fun feeling. I'm not into D&D though, which might explain my suckage.

 

So, even if AP is very combat-heavy, I really hope that encounters will at least feel unique in themselves and not 'let's shoot 150000 respawning russian terrorists'.

[Xard]

I must be easy to please. I actually have no major gripes about the NWN2 OC.

 

you CAN'T like orc caves

 

You just can't.

 

SRSLY

 

 

I really liked the Orc caves, and I've played them at least 50 times.

 

........

 

Here is picture that describes my feelings on the matter: