Four fresh interviews for NWN2: SoZ

[Jorian Drake]

No, they did say somewhere (though of course I can't remember where at the moment, but I am sure I of it) that we *could* make it into epic levels, but not necessarily.

the average goes to 15 levels, i guess making every single side quest could lead you to level 21

[Kelverin]

as others pointed out, NWN1 (and 2) OC levelled you up once or twice easy as pie to congratulate you for finding some furs in a rug and stuff. Level 3 still delivers, in CRPG terms, a very similar early-level experience, and I think it's just nitpicking.

Every complaint can be seen as nitpicking. Again it just seems another way to take me as a player out of the game, along the lines of forced companions, plot critical characters, cut scenes, the silly no death rules.....One by one might not seem to much to you but to me it adds up and takes away from my enjoyment of the game. It won't matter to the companies but if the trend continues I'll have to find other ways to waste my hard earned cash.

 

Just because the NWN games has failed to deliver quality low level gaming does just give them a reason to ditch it completely. Learn how to write a ****ing low level adventure for pete's sake, are find someone who can.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Kelverin

[Xard]

I don't know single good lvl 1-3 cRPG campaign

 

That's because they're not fun. Game really starts at lvl 3.

 

It's not fun playing sorceres who dies because he was scratched by kitten in kitchen corner

 

lvl 1-3 are just rat killing and other similar crap so players reach the point where game can "really start"

Edited June 25, 2008 by Xard

[Jorian Drake]

as others pointed out, NWN1 (and 2) OC levelled you up once or twice easy as pie to congratulate you for finding some furs in a rug and stuff. Level 3 still delivers, in CRPG terms, a very similar early-level experience, and I think it's just nitpicking.

Every complaint can be seen as nitpicking. Again it just seems another way to take me as a player out of the game, along the lines of forced companions, plot critical characters, cut scenes, the silly no death rules.....One by one might not seem to much to you but to me it adds up and takes away from my enjoyment of the game. It won't matter to the companies but if the trend continues I'll have to find other ways to waste my hard earned cash.

 

Just because the NWN games has failed to deliver quality low level gaming does just give them a reason to ditch it completely. Learn how to write a ****ing low level adventure for pete's sake, are find someone who can.

it still remains a low-level adventue, you are only spared from the 3-20 reloads because you died

 

one of the good aspects of 4.0 is that in there you can survive on level 1 aswell, no tricks like this will be needed then

[Tigranes]

Again it just seems another way to take me as a player out of the game, along the lines of forced companions, plot critical characters, cut scenes, the silly no death rules.....One by one might not seem to much to you but to me it adds up and takes away from my enjoyment of the game. It won't matter to the companies but if the trend continues I'll have to find other ways to waste my hard earned cash.

 

But you didn't complain when NWN2 OC levelled you up like twice for getting a fur from the chest. Right? I fail to see how it is different here at all, because surely they will let you level up the way you want. In fact, it would have been exactly the same as that if SoZ was a new game - but its an xpack so they won't include a tutorial to justify it, 'sall. I hate things like forced companions as much as you do but "freedom" is never an absolute and unconditional virtue in video games as well as society. It's about understanding what boundaries and limitations on player freedom is desirable and benefitial to the overall experience. Starting at level 3? Hardly think it will be missed, once we're up and playing the game.

[Volourn]

"first two levels are so boring and underpowered"

 

1. Boring is opinion, and hence irrelevant.

 

2. Underpowered simply isn't true. Underpowered compared to what? Enemies you face? Only a problem if your DM forces you to fight ogres at level 1. Underpowered compared to fellow PCs? Hope not as that be illogical. Underpowered compared to level 3s? I hope so since level 1 should be lower powered than level 3.

 

HAHA!

 

D&D is awesome NO MATTER THE LEVEL.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Volourn

[Tigranes]

1. Boring is opinion, and hence irrelevant.

 

Volo hits the back of the net! It's 2-1 and they are ahead!

[Jorian Drake]

1. Boring is opinion, and hence irrelevant.

 

Volo hits the back of the net! It's 2-1 and they are ahead!

Guys, if you continue this way the only winner here will be F

 

[Pidesco]

"first two levels are so boring and underpowered"

 

1. Boring is opinion, and hence irrelevant.

 

2. Underpowered simply isn't true. Underpowered compared to what? Enemies you face? Only a problem if your DM forces you to fight ogres at level 1. Underpowered compared to fellow PCs? Hope not as that be illogical. Underpowered compared to level 3s? I hope so since level 1 should be lower powered than level 3.

 

HAHA!

 

D&D is awesome NO MATTER THE LEVEL.

 

Underpowered because a level 1 character has like a 40% chance of missing a blow on a stationary dead badger. Which not only makes no sense, but makes for exceedingly inane gameplay where nothing ever happens in combat other than two retarded muppets taking turns swinging at each other with sticks from half a meter away and missing all the freaking time. Boring because nothing happens. Literally.

[Kelverin]

I don't know single good LL 1-3 crag campaign. That's because they're not fun. Game really starts at LL 3.

I'll disagree here. BG got low level adventuring down great I thought. Introduced your character, their back story, you were able to discover some of Candlekeep, explore wilderness area's, meet NPC's, adventure to another area either (Beregost, Friendly Arm Inn) random encounters... it took you awhile to advance to 2nd level, I did not mind waiting.

 

I also enjoyed how TOEE handled low level adventuring. You could explore the town (admittedly boring) or just jump right in and head to the moathouse. Absolutely love the moathouse at first level. Very challenging.

 

I thought both IWD were good low level adventures. The first expansion for NWN as well.

 

 

it still remains a low-level adventue, you are only spared from the 3-20 reloads because you died

 

one of the good aspects of 4.0 is that in there you can survive on level 1 aswell, no tricks like this will be needed then

Don't mind the reloading, but it doesn't matter my party will just rise from the dead unless they are all killed. If the game is challenging you will have to reload no matter what level you are.

 

You think that is a strength about 4th edition, I consider it a drawback myself.

[Pidesco]

I don't know single good LL 1-3 crag campaign. That's because they're not fun. Game really starts at LL 3.

I'll disagree here. BG got low level adventuring down great I thought. Introduced your character, their back story, you were able to discover some of Candlekeep, explore wilderness area's, meet NPC's, adventure to another area either (Beregost, Friendly Arm Inn) random encounters... it took you awhile to advance to 2nd level, I did not mind waiting.

 

I distinctly remember throwing a single magic missile at a bear, and then running in circles with the bugger chasing me while Imoen pelted the stupid bear with arrows. Low level brilliance!

[Kelverin]

I distinctly remember throwing a single magic missile at a bear, and then running in circles with the bugger chasing me while Imoen pelted the stupid bear with arrows. Low level brilliance!

Do you really want to go here? I could give you a list a mile long of stupid high level encounters in role playing games

 

You could have(and should have) ran away, but I am sure you knew that.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Kelverin

[Tigranes]

I'll disagree here. BG got low level adventuring down great I thought. Introduced your character, their back story, you were able to discover some of Candlekeep, explore wilderness area's, meet NPC's, adventure to another area either (Beregost, Friendly Arm Inn) random encounters... it took you awhile to advance to 2nd level, I did not mind waiting.

 

Yes, I'm playing it right now in fact and I love BG's low level gaming. But exactly what part of that do we miss out on, by starting on level 3?

 

Do you really want to go here? I could give you a list a mile long of stupid high level encounters in role playing games

 

You could have(and should have) ran away, but I am sure you knew that.

 

So if I start as a mage, I should run away from everything, including a family of gibberlings, until I get enough story XP so I can start fighting things? I mean, yeah, I wouldn't mind that if that was the case, but equally I wouldn't mind anybody leaving that part out.

 

There are stupid encounters everywhere, but not many of them involve either (a) both sides sitting there missing each other for 30 minutes or (b) running away from everything.

 

Now, what would be interesting is if a game like the Elder Scrolls started you off like that. You're just a babe and you can't really take on anything, you've got to sneak around, use tools and whatnot, i.e. drop a big rock from above rather than try and fight. But the IE and Aurora/Electron engines have always been strongest at frontal assault and are based around tactical combat rather than rogue/guerilla swashbuckling.

[Volourn]

"Underpowered because a level 1 character has like a 40% chance of missing a blow on a stationary dead badger."

 

D&D doesn't work that way.... First of, anything stationary is automatic hit, and a badger is dead so irrelevant. Auto hit (for no reason except L0LS).

Edited June 26, 2008 by Volourn

[Xard]

*facepalm*

 

How clever Volourn, how clever

[Kelverin]

So if I start as a mage, I should run away from everything, including a family of gibberlings, until I get enough story XP so I can start fighting things? I mean, yeah, I wouldn't mind that if that was the case, but equally I wouldn't mind anybody leaving that part out.

You can't compare a 1,000 pound Bear to a pack of 3' tall blue men.

 

Who's to say that god forbid, you have non-combat situations that require role playing, puzzle solving, and building your character's history as a way to gain experience.

 

You know come on creative leads be......creative

[Volourn]

On top of that, you tend to only meet bears and stuff if you venture off the road. You take a risk when you explore off the beaten path... Afterall, that bear is in its woods... just avoid them like you would in real life. Just be thankful that in fantasy games you can actually go toe to toe with a bear without a gun.

[Xard]

So if I start as a mage, I should run away from everything, including a family of gibberlings, until I get enough story XP so I can start fighting things? I mean, yeah, I wouldn't mind that if that was the case, but equally I wouldn't mind anybody leaving that part out.

You can't compare a 1,000 pound Bear to a pack of 3' tall blue men.

 

Who's to say that god forbid, you have non-combat situations that require role playing, puzzle solving, and building your character's history as a way to gain experience.

 

You know come on creative leads be......creative

 

But there's no real difference in that sense between lvl 3 and lvl 1. Honestly, only kids could really be lvl 1 because your average persons abilitites are closer to lvl 3 than one. There's not much roleplaying at lvl 1 that doesn't make more sense in lvl 3 unless you're going to play kiddo or something

 

It's not fun or beliavable at all when my character (whose backstory involves military training) gets bit in the hand twice by wold and dies. By background alone his capabilities would be close to lvl 3.

 

Or let's take wizard. You shoot one magic missile. Crap, that's it. Goblin only got injured and gets lucky with his dagger hitting my toe and ooooops I'm dead.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Xard

[Tale]

But there's no real difference in that sense between lvl 3 and lvl 1. Honestly, only kids could really be lvl 1 because your average persons abilitites are closer to lvl 3 than one. There's not much roleplaying at lvl 1 that doesn't make more sense in lvl 3 unless you're going to play kiddo or something

 

It's not fun or beliavable at all when my character (whose backstory involves military training) gets bit in the hand twice by wold and dies. By background alone his capabilities would be close to lvl 3.

 

Or let's take wizard. You shoot one magic missile. Crap, that's it. Goblin only got injured and gets lucky with his dagger hitting my toe and ooooops I'm dead.

Commoners are level 0. Level 1 isn't an average person. Level 1 in D&D is still an exceptional individual. Look at the stat scores. 10 is your average person. Or is it 8? Sure, they can still be easy to kill at level 1, but a level 1 is still exceptional.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Tale

[Magister Lajciak]

*I personally loved the Spirit Meter, I thought it was brilliant.

 

I also thought the Spirit Meter was a great mechanic. Hopefully, the reaction of some will not dissuade the developers from trying out similarly innovative mechanics in the future.

[Xard]

So exceptional individual dies if torch burns his little finger? Riiiight

 

And exceptional individual that has background of couple of years of thievery is instantly seen if guard has few petty ranks in spot?

[Magister Lajciak]

Commoners are level 0. Level 1 isn't an average person. Level 1 in D&D is still an exceptional individual. Look at the stat scores. 10 is your average person. Or is it 8? Sure, they can still be easy to kill at level 1, but a level 1 is still exceptional.

 

Not so... or at least not any more. In AD&D 2E, what you wrote was true, but in 3.5 edition, commoners are at least level 1 too - see the NPC classes (these classes are weaker than PC classes though) section of the rules.

[Magister Lajciak]

BTW: Great interview - thanks for posting it.

[Humodour]

I don't know single good LL 1-3 crag campaign. That's because they're not fun. Game really starts at LL 3.

I'll disagree here. BG got low level adventuring down great I thought. Introduced your character, their back story, you were able to discover some of Candlekeep, explore wilderness area's, meet NPC's, adventure to another area either (Beregost, Friendly Arm Inn) random encounters... it took you awhile to advance to 2nd level, I did not mind waiting.

 

I distinctly remember throwing a single magic missile at a bear, and then running in circles with the bugger chasing me while Imoen pelted the stupid bear with arrows. Low level brilliance!

 

That's what you get for attacking bears you fool!

[Gorth]

I don't know single good LL 1-3 crag campaign. That's because they're not fun. Game really starts at LL 3.

I'll disagree here. BG got low level adventuring down great I thought. Introduced your character, their back story, you were able to discover some of Candlekeep, explore wilderness area's, meet NPC's, adventure to another area either (Beregost, Friendly Arm Inn) random encounters... it took you awhile to advance to 2nd level, I did not mind waiting.

 

I distinctly remember throwing a single magic missile at a bear, and then running in circles with the bugger chasing me while Imoen pelted the stupid bear with arrows. Low level brilliance!

 

That's what you get for attacking bears you fool!

Maybe he sold the skin before catching the bear?