Sex and video games

[Pidesco]

It's still dumb, though, that one sex scene makes a game AO worthy, while gallons of blood and cleaved limbs don't.

[Xard]

Besides, rating game mature due to nipple is just as stupid anyway

[Nick_i_am]

Agree, see Giants: Citizen Kabuto.

 

One of the playable character had enough titties for the whole class, but I can't even find a rating for it.

 

In the american version she was given a top.

[LostStraw]

Agree, see Giants: Citizen Kabuto.

 

One of the playable character had enough titties for the whole class, but I can't even find a rating for it.

 

In the american version she was given a top.

It was rated M by the ESRB. They gave her a top in the American version because they were aiming for a T rating (can't remember where I read the article) but it didn't work out.

 

The PS2 version was rated T. I'm not sure what the difference is between it and the computer version.

[Sand]

Maybe their reasoning is that someperson could mod the game to remove the top on the PC game.

[Nick_i_am]

It was rated M by the ESRB. They gave her a top in the American version because they were aiming for a T rating (can't remember where I read the article) but it didn't work out.

 

Really? Weird, I didn't have any problems buying it when I was 15. Maybe people just cared less back then.

[Hell Kitty]

*shrug* there are nearly always suitable alternatives to frank depiction of sexual intercourse.

 

Indeed. A movie/book/game/whatever being "about sex" doesn't mean it requires explicit sex or even any sex scenes at all. A story might be about the characters beliefs, fears and insecurities concerning sex and relationships without it ever being necessary to show the actual act.

 

The irony of sex and nudity leading to an automatic "adults only" rating is that it's often used in a rather immature way, stuff like teen sex comedies.

 

The Sims 2 is chock full of sex, and it's never explicit. It's not there to titillate, is just presented as a part of life.

[random n00b]

The problem is man, you tend 'call' people on anything you disagree with slightly, and then seem to feel a need to always get the last word. Half the time you end up focusing on a tangent point to try and show somebody up, 'cause it's not working with the main topic of debate. Not cool.

 

And yeah, I'm fully aware I'll get a scathing one liner response from you or you'll call me a troll, but I reckon you needed to hear it.

Wow, you "reckon I needed to hear it"?

 

Gee, thanks. It's a wee bit troubling however that you're monitoring my needs so closely.

 

Now, how about you lay off the armchair psychology and find a point to discuss that isn't me? This is the second time in my brief time here that you post with the express purpose of attempting to slap me down, rather gracelessly too. Find another pastime.

 

 

Indeed. A movie/book/game/whatever being "about sex" doesn't mean it requires explicit sex or even any sex scenes at all. A story might be about the characters beliefs, fears and insecurities concerning sex and relationships without it ever being necessary to show the actual act.

Yeah, you can make a movie about sex, without any sex whatsoever. But again, why would you? Is there any particular reason why you would want to cut out sex in a movie that's heavy on sex, where you wouldn't cut murder in a movie about crime, or battle in a war flick?

 

Not saying it can't be done or that it mustn't be done or anything.

 

At any rate, what you are describing is all part of sexuality. I don't think I have seen any games dealing with that. I don't know if that would lend itself well to the medium, either.

 

I'm perfectly fine with the level of explicitness in The Sims. It works, and the game doesn't need more. But then, what other games are there where sex is featured as just another element of gameplay?

[Hell Kitty]

Yeah, you can make a movie about sex, without any sex whatsoever. But again, why would you?

 

Why not?

 

I recently saw the film Summer Clouds, which was about Robert and his cousin Marta playing a game with holidaying couple Daniel and Ana, attempting to seduce them, with the game being won once either one had sex with the husband or wife. The films shows us that Daniel and Ana are a fairly typical couple and are happy together. While Marta can't go through with seducing Daniel, Robert successfully seduces Ana, and while she is in a room changing, Robert enters, closes the door behind him and begins kissing her. The shot then changes to a shot of the door from outside the room, and it sits there for a minute or two. No one leaves the room, so the audience knows that something is happening between them but never finds out what exactly. Daniel suspects his wife cheated on him, but she denies it. Marta reveals the game to Ana, and tells her that nothing happened between her and Daniel, and asks if anything happened between Robert and Ana, but Ana refuses to answer. Robert tells Daniel it doesn't matter what happened as his wife loves him and they'll now leave and return home to their lives. Besides, Robert got what he wanted and was no longer interested in Ana. In this film, it was important that we don't see the sex scene, leaving us in the same position as Daniel, not knowing exactly what happened.

 

In the film Unfaithful, married Connie begins an affair with Paul. She is happily married to Ed, and the film shows the audience that there isn't a problem such as a lackluster sex life that leads to the affair. Her interactions with her husband are nice and sweet, while her interactions with Paul are passionate and intense. In this film it's important to show the sex scenes between Connie and Paul in order for the audience to see just how consumed by the affair and her lover she becomes.

 

Is there any particular reason why you would want to cut out sex in a movie that's heavy on sex,

 

I never said anything about cutting existing scenes out of movies, so I don't know why you are asking me this.

 

My point is that you can tell a story about sex without needing to show any actual sex. You can have no sex, like in Summer Clouds, or quite a bit of sex, like in Unfaithful. Or you can have a story where is doesn't even matter whether we see the act or not.

 

where you wouldn't cut murder in a movie about crime

 

TV shows like Law & Order rarely show the actual murders taking place, because they are about finding the criminal and bringing them to justice. When a story is told from the point of view of the investigators, it's common for the story to start after the crime has taken place. And just to be clear I'm pointing out that tv shows and movies can be about crime and murder without actually showing the audience the act, not saying that it's fine to cut existing scenes out.

 

A war movie might be more concerned with how soldiers deal with returning home then any actual battles. Or a journalist in a war zone trying to cope the the violence occurring around them. You can make a movie about violence without showing the actual violence, only the effects of it.

 

But then, what other games are there where sex is featured as just another element of gameplay?

 

I don't know of any other than Sims clone Singles, which is supposedly more focused on the actual sex but I haven't played it. Sex is typically something you'd see in a cutscene, whereas sex as a gameplay element is typically the stuff of porn games. In Mass Effect, it's basically just the payoff for completing the romance, and doesn't really add anything to the story. In GTA IV, Niko can go on dates with a number of women, and if they like him enough, he can have sex with them, although we never see the act. The point of these dates storywise, as with the outings you can go on with male friends, is really the conversations with the characters.

[Dark_Raven]

It's still dumb, though, that one sex scene makes a game AO worthy, while gallons of blood and cleaved limbs don't.

Here in the States, its ok for death, lots of blood to be shown in games or your local news. But forbid if anything that deals with sex ever gets shown.

[random n00b]

Why not?

Well, you put forward a good example of why you would want to, but I was asking more in a general sense, as a rule of thumb, maybe, as the apparent current tendency in games is not to deal with that at all.

 

In your example, not showing what happens in the room serves an explicit purpose. But keeping the spectator guessing about what happened only works in very specific instances, I think.

 

 

I never said anything about cutting existing scenes out of movies, so I don't know why you are asking me this.

It seems I made a poor choice of words. I didn't mean cutting stuff that's already been filmed from the final version. I meant deliberately curtailing the sex, just because it's sex.

 

 

My point is that you can tell a story about sex without needing to show any actual sex.

Yes, I never disputed that. I still think that not having a rather clever writing or a plot reason to do so will result in an artificially prude work.

 

 

TV shows like Law & Order rarely show the actual murders taking place, because they are about finding the criminal and bringing them to justice. When a story is told from the point of view of the investigators, it's common for the story to start after the crime has taken place. And just to be clear I'm pointing out that tv shows and movies can be about crime and murder without actually showing the audience the act, not saying that it's fine to cut existing scenes out.

That's sidestepping the issue, really, since that doesn't really deal with crime, but rather, how third parties are affected by it.

 

Take "Mr. Brooks", for instance. That's a movie about murder AND how it affects people. While the movie is not *explicit* on murder (doesn't show brains spilled about, this is comparable to not showing full frontal penetration, I think), it would just not be the same without the visual shock that seeing somebody shoot people in cold blood induces.

 

 

A war movie might be more concerned with how soldiers deal with returning home then any actual battles. Or a journalist in a war zone trying to cope the the violence occurring around them. You can make a movie about violence without showing the actual violence, only the effects of it.

But is it then a true "war" movie, without the "boom!" shots? I don't think so. Even films like Thin Red Line and Apocalypse Now, that focused heavily on how war can break people, aren't shy on the visual violence department. And they do it for the simple reason that it's easier to empathise with the characters (and therefore, make them more credible), if crude scenes of mindless violence are shown to set the mood.

 

Can this be extended to sex? I'm not sure.

 

 

The point of these dates storywise, as with the outings you can go on with male friends, is really the conversations with the characters.

Heh. Again, miscommunication. I'm not really interested in the mechanics or rewards or even the specifics of it. I'm more interested in the numbers of games that deal with sex as casually as The Sims do. Edited May 31, 2008 by random n00b

[Hell Kitty]

I meant deliberately curtailing the sex, just because it's sex.

 

Avoiding sex just because it's sex is no different to inserting sex just because it's sex. Rip it out so we can sell it to prudes, throw it in so we can sell it to pervs.

 

That's sidestepping the issue, really, since that doesn't really deal with crime, but rather, how third parties are affected by it.

 

That's not true, Law & Order is a show about crime, specifically murder, and follows the detectives and prosecutors attempts to bring the criminal to justice. The effect it has on people isn't the focus of the series, it's all about bringing a criminal to justice. It's an example of a show that is generally "about crime" but doesn't need to show the actual crime taking place.

 

Dexter, like Mr Brooks, is a story from the perspective of a killer, and like Mr Brooks isn't particularly explicit, but it also wouldn't be the same without the viewer seeing certain scenes.

 

I still think that not having a rather clever writing or a plot reason to do so will result in an artificially prude work.

 

While you might think it's necessary to have a clever reason to exclude sex, someone else will feel it's necessary to have a clever reason to include sex. There is no one right way to tell stories that deal with certain issues. Some will need to show you certain things, some will need to keep certain things from you, others can do it either way with the inclusion or exclusion of certain things not having any real effect on the story. Mass Effect doesn't need the sex scene, but there's also no reason it can't be there.

 

I think we're getting stuck on being "about sex", which is my fault. Most stories that feature sex tend to actually be about relationships and human interaction, of which sex is a part, like in the two examples I gave, but they aren't specifically "about sex". If the act itself is the focus, then the work is most likely erotic or pornographic in nature, where seeing the act is the whole point. Even films like "9 Songs" and "Shortbus", which feature explicit unsimulated sex scenes aren't "about sex", they are "about people".

 

The Sims 2 is like this, it's about (sim) people and their lives, specifically their entire lives, so it's only natural sex is going to play a role. Most games aren't telling the type of stories that focus on people and relationships.