Iran, the Lion, and the Rancher

[Yuusha]

@Walsh:

1) Full military restraint has been observed with Iran, including over numerous provocative 'mock' attacks by fast boats in the Gulf (Stratfor reported)

2) Iran's pasdaran continue to train, finance, and support insurgents in Iraq.

3) The USA has accepted and participated in numerous talks over the last 10 months with Iran.

 

This suggests to me that it is Iran who is proceeding in bad faith, not the USA.

1. Mock attacks huh. You mean the incident where the speed boats approached the patrol ship USS Typhoon in a

[Xard]

I find it extremely ludicruous arabs keep going about Israeli "wiping palestine off the map"

 

There never was "Palestine". There never was musilm country on that spot.

 

Palestine was just part of British Empire. Palestines tried to revolt in late 1930's and got their ass kicked by the royal army.

 

It was up to Britain to whom they were going to give the country. Arabs draw the shorter straw compared to jews (and no wonder as they revolted not even decade ago). Tough luck but quit bitching about losing something that never was

 

Well I could say the same about the US, seeing it's also a cultural melting pot.

 

US don't go around massacring and oppressing its minorities.

 

Besides, melting pot = they melt them to "same". This same being status and pride for being american.

 

It isn't on any level comparable to Iran

 

 

I for one couldn't care less if Iran was ****ed over by yanks. Sure I would feel bad for the civilians and other innocents but hey, you build yourself mother****ing theocracy. And in my books theocracies are definement of evil goverments alongside dictators.

 

ps. back in 1953 british went to baww at their american big brother because their oil company was nationalized. Blame britts

Edited May 26, 2008 by Xard

[Xard]

B. If he did want to 'wipe israel off the map' may i ask, what is in Israel that is so important to the Muslim world? Hmm maybe the third most important site in Islam? Do you not think that logically, it would be REALLY thick to attack your own faith? It would cause a full on war with Iran backed by the Muslim world.

 

Oh for christs sake Jerusalem was holy city of jews thousands of years ago. It was holy city of christians hundreds of years ago before Mohammed.

 

Islam, Israel etc. are yet another reasons to think nothing good ever comes out from Levant

Edited May 26, 2008 by Xard

[Humodour]

@Walsh:

1) Full military restraint has been observed with Iran, including over numerous provocative 'mock' attacks by fast boats in the Gulf (Stratfor reported)

2) Iran's pasdaran continue to train, finance, and support insurgents in Iraq.

3) The USA has accepted and participated in numerous talks over the last 10 months with Iran.

 

This suggests to me that it is Iran who is proceeding in bad faith, not the USA.

1. Mock attacks huh. You mean the incident where the speed boats approached the patrol ship USS Typhoon in a

[Sand]

My main beef with Iran, and Islam in many many parts of the world, is how they treat women. Women aren't treated fairly nor equally. Till all Islamic governments treat all women as equals to men then I will have nothing to do with them or their religion. While the US is backwards in some areas of civil rights, most Islamic countries are downright stuck in the dark ages.

[Humodour]

Britain finally grants gay Iranian teen asylum from death penalty for homosexuality when he goes back to Iran, following on from the teen being denied asylum whilst he was studying in the UK:

 

In a letter to the British Government, Mr Kazemi has told the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith: "I wish to inform the Secretary of State that I did not come to the UK to claim asylum. I came here to study and return to my country. But in the past few months my situation back home has changed. The Iranian authorities have found out that I am a homosexual and they are looking for me." He added: "I cannot stop my attraction towards men. This is something that I will have to live with the rest of my life. I was born with the feeling and cannot change this fact but it is unfortunate that I cannot express my feeling in Iran. If I return to Iran I will be arrested and executed like my former boyfriend."

 

More here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-...n-792058.html#a

[Sand]

That is great news for the kid. It just shows how freaking backwards and how much Iran's theocracy is completely f**ked up. There is no defense for that, Yuusha.

[Walsingham]

1. Comparing who did what

 

Granted we (US & UK) did topple Mossadeq. In fact I'd remind you that Britain is considered far more dubious by Iranians than the USA. But we are talking about NOW. I mean, statute of limitations, for heaven's sake. What's next? France placing sanctions on Great Britain for our dishonourable conduct at Agincourt? How about the seizure of embassy staff by revolutionary cadres in 1979 violating every principle of peaceful democracy.

 

2. Iran being singled out instead of Israel

 

You conveniently forget that Pakistan also has nuclear weapons. Which I can understand since they are next door to Iran. More importantly there is a difference between who has a weapon and what they intend to do with it. Iran is an aggressive power locally whose support of terrorism in Iraq is killing thousands of people. Hell, they cheerfully consigned millions of their own men to death in the war with Iraq. Or I should say the ruling mullahs did. The people of course were and still are scarred by the experience. Which is kinda the point. Dictatorships are militarily aggressive by their nature. Particularly when they are divided at home.

 

Further, Iran has the largest conventional military in the region. Including the basij you're looking at two million men. Factor in the geography (predeominantly mountainous), and there's really little plausible reason to aim for a nuclear deterrent.

 

3. You clearly follow mid-eastern politics. I hardly think you can be ignorant of the way policy statements are over-egged. You just said as much in your defence of Ahmedinejad (which was interesting nonetheless).

[Gorth]

1. Comparing who did what

How about the seizure of embassy staff by revolutionary cadres in 1979 violating every principle of peaceful democracy.

Which was very bad move. If people act like thugs, odds are they are going to be regarded as such.

 

You conveniently forget that Pakistan also has nuclear weapons. Which I can understand since they are next door to Iran.

It might also be a factor that India has nukes... at least according to the pakistanis I've spoken to. Iran doesn't enter the equation. It is all about Kashmir. Blame the British

 

Iran is an aggressive power locally whose support of terrorism in Iraq is killing thousands of people. Hell, they cheerfully consigned millions of their own men to death in the war with Iraq.

One of my best buddies during university years was a deserter from the Iranian army during that war. After two years at the front for Ayatollah and country, he left for northern Europe, developed a liking for danish girls, pork and beer (poor sucker ended up married with kids, slight beer belly and love handles). He rarely ever spoke about the situation in Iran and what little he did tell was scary. He was worried about the fate his family, him being a deserter, hoping that one day he would be declared officially "dead".

[Hildegard]

It quite obvious that the US and its allies are pushing towards Iran that is behaving in their interests in the region. It's the defiance of Iran to go along with western interests in the region that is hurting so much Bush and his pals...although their rule of the country and human rights are far from perfect, talk about Iranian lack of freedom and democracy is just your usual daily portion of western propaganda and demonization of the enemy in order to one day pave the way for a justification of an attack on Iran, as is hypocrisy about nuclear energy and nuclear arms, as is 'do not engage in actions in a country that we have engaged on justified terms as we are in a process of building a democratic state in the ME as lighthouse of hope and salvation' (lol

Edited May 27, 2008 by Hildegard

[Humodour]

My hopes and message to the Iranians: don't give in to the bastards

 

Damn straight. Iran, you keep training those suicide bombers and murdering those damn gays.

 

[Sand]

It quite obvious that the US and its allies are pushing towards Iran that is behaving in their interests in the region. It's the defiance of Iran to go along with western interests in the region that is hurting so much Bush and his pals...although their rule of the country and human rights are far from perfect, talk about Iranian lack of freedom and democracy is just your usual daily portion of western propaganda and demonization of the enemy in order to one day pave the way for a justification of an attack on Iran, as is hypocrisy about nuclear energy and nuclear arms, as is 'do not engage in actions in a country that we have engaged on justified terms as we are in a process of building a democratic state in the ME as lighthouse of hope and salvation' (lol

[Hildegard]

It quite obvious that the US and its allies are pushing towards Iran that is behaving in their interests in the region. It's the defiance of Iran to go along with western interests in the region that is hurting so much Bush and his pals...although their rule of the country and human rights are far from perfect, talk about Iranian lack of freedom and democracy is just your usual daily portion of western propaganda and demonization of the enemy in order to one day pave the way for a justification of an attack on Iran, as is hypocrisy about nuclear energy and nuclear arms, as is 'do not engage in actions in a country that we have engaged on justified terms as we are in a process of building a democratic state in the ME as lighthouse of hope and salvation' (lol

Edited May 27, 2008 by Hildegard

[Hildegard]

My hopes and message to the Iranians: don't give in to the bastards

 

Damn straight. Iran, you keep training those suicide bombers and murdering those damn gays.

 

 

 

Who is next, Iran or Venezuela?

[random n00b]

Oh, no. Hilde's going at it again...

[Gfted1]

I vote for Venezuela. Plenty of oil*, close in location, and Id like to see Chaves get pimp slapped.

 

*Dreams of the day I can fuel my SUV bus for .15 / gallon on the backs of broken Venezuelans.

[Meshugger]

It quite obvious that the US and its allies are pushing towards Iran that is behaving in their interests in the region. It's the defiance of Iran to go along with western interests in the region that is hurting so much Bush and his pals...although their rule of the country and human rights are far from perfect, talk about Iranian lack of freedom and democracy is just your usual daily portion of western propaganda and demonization of the enemy in order to one day pave the way for a justification of an attack on Iran, as is hypocrisy about nuclear energy and nuclear arms, as is 'do not engage in actions in a country that we have engaged on justified terms as we are in a process of building a democratic state in the ME as lighthouse of hope and salvation' (lol

[Sand]

Where are you from? How many people were killed in your country because they were different in some way and does it happen now also?

 

It doesn't happen as much as it use to because we have actually made progress in that regard, unlike some other countries. Unlike the Middle East, the US has stepped up to the 21st century.

 

You don't have to answer that question because it has happened in almost every single country in the past and is still being done today, to a different point of degree depending on the country in question.

 

Just because it happened in the past does not make it right, nor does it make it alright to do so now or in the future.

 

Let me ask you one question, when it comes to breaking human rights and similar things how many news has come out of Iran compared to other countries in the same region? Well I'll answer to you once more...Iran must be number one, not because most negative things happen over there but because there is a systematic demonization of Iran by the western mass media. Do you know how many atrocities similar or same are being done in countries like Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Pakistan? But it's not so media exposed because of course we all know they are the allies in the so called 'war on terror' which is the biggest joke since the crusades and Spanish inquisition.

 

I know its not just Iran. Its the Islamic religion that is the problem. There is a reason why theocracies are the worst form of government when it comes to civil rights and liberties. Just because a neighboring country is commiting atrocities does not make it right. If you think it does I again have to say you need some psychological help.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Sand

[random n00b]

Its the Islamic religion that is the problem.

Religion is just the scapegoat. Ignorance is the true problem.

 

 

There is a reason why theocracies are the worst form of government when it comes to civil rights and liberties.

Wrong, actually. "Socialist" totalitarian regimes are worse - by far.

[Tigranes]

Its the Islamic religion that is the problem.

 

Wait, what?? No it's not. It's particular ways in which a particular group of people have chosen to interpret Islam, which has as much to do with Islam as it does with realpolitik, the current political and social climate, globalisation/modernity and the Western/American obsession with installing democracies everywhere it can, by force if it needs to. This is more than the kind of 'religious fanatics' you see in cartoons. You can do better than that Sand.

[Sand]

Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) and ignorance go hand and hand, n00b.

[Dark_Raven]

Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) and ignorance go hand and hand, n00b.

The Axis of Evil.

 

Do away with those one god religions and perhaps people can evolve into the next evolution of enlightenment and understanding.

[random n00b]

Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) and ignorance go hand and hand, n00b.

What nonsense is this?

 

Many intellectuals through History have been deeply religious, Einstein among them.

 

Ignorance only goes hand on hand with ignorance.

Edited May 28, 2008 by random n00b

[Sand]

Religion in of itself is a problem, but the Abrahamic religions are probably the worse of the bunch in the modern world. More evil and destruction has been done in the name of religious beliefs than any amount of good.

 

Oh yeah, Einstein. One of the so-called greatest minds that gave us the atomic nightmare.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Sand

[random n00b]

Religion in of itself is a problem, but the Abrahamic religions are probably the worse of the bunch in the modern world. More evil and destruction has been done in the name of religious beliefs than any amount of good.

Again, only in times and places where ignorance is prevalent. In the West, we didn't eradicate religion. We eradicated (or greatly reduced, at least) ignorance. Starting to see a pattern yet?

 

 

Oh yeah, Einstein. One of the so-called greatest minds that gave us the atomic nightmare.

This is fallacious on so many levels, that I'm not even going to bother.