Bioware sold out

[Nick_i_am]

Which, in turn, hurts the PC gaming market.

[Tale]

Which is the part I think to be fascinating. The notion that the PC gaming is hurting is leading to things that hurt PC gaming.

[Nick_i_am]

Yeah, the same thing is happening to the music industry, and comes down to a bunch of execs up the top who are still living in the days before the internet and are basically out of touch with the rest of the world.

 

Which is expected in an industry that was once on top of the world in terms of obscene income and spending practices, but it's far less excusible from the PC market which, by deffinition, should be staying right on top of the ball.

[Tigranes]

Excatly Tale - it is the discursive trap in the purest sense. You have a specific discourse which demands a certain way of interpreting reality, which attains such a level of authority that it becomes universal (piracy hurts PC game sales, so, all PC game sale declines are due to piracy), and even if that idea was never true to begin with (who knows? It's not so relevant, at this point), the real actions taken on the basis of this possibly imaginary discourse makes that discourse more real than reality itself. All the while they spend their own money to rob themselves of money. Classic.

 

I should think that it is only deserving (though I cannot be gleeful about this, rather, worried is the better term) of an industry and culture which is based on the 'eternal present' - statistics are not fully released, even the basic sale of game units is left in the dark, and the game industry forgets its past on a regular basis, only to say and do the same things again and again.

[Moatilliatta]

I thought it would be interesting to mention that Bioshock managed to avoid being pirated for 13 days (according to themselves) which is relatively long.

 

Edit: I guess that should be avoided being cracked, but you guys know what I mean.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Moatilliatta

[kirottu]

I thought it would be interesting to mention that Bioshock managed to avoid being pirated for 13 days (according to themselves) which is relatively long.

 

At Bio boards someone claimed Bioshock was hacked within 24h.

[Tale]

I thought it would be interesting to mention that Bioshock managed to avoid being pirated for 13 days (according to themselves) which is relatively long.

 

At Bio boards someone claimed Bioshock was hacked within 24h.

Bunk. It took a while, I can't tell you if it took more than a week, but it took more than two days.

 

Of course, one of the Splinter Cell games took over a year.

[Nick_i_am]

For memory, Operation Flashpoint managed to stay 'crack-proof' for a long time, not because it was uncrackable, but because the game, when cracked, would play normally for a little bit then slowly start to break. Your aim would go dodgy, vehcle controls would become erratic, stuff like that.

[random n00b]

Of course, one of the Splinter Cell games took over a year.

Starforce. Of course, Ubisoft had to drop that protection after all the uproar with broken drives and other nasty side-effects of integrating malware into their game. It's the main reason I never bought Chaos Theory, despite its great co-op mode.

 

It's pretty much deprecated by now, though, save for some localized russian releases.

[Spider]

Bunk. It took a while, I can't tell you if it took more than a week, but it took more than two days.

 

Yeah. Four days to be exact. a crack was available the 25th of august and the game was released on the 21st. As far as I can tell though, the first crack was not perfect, and another was out first of september. Maybe that's where the Bioshock people got two weeks.

 

Also, there is actually a very big difference between avoid being pirated and avoid being cracked. There are two ways for pirates to get their games. Cracks or clones. Clones are typically out faster. (I have no idea if there was a clone release for Bioshock though, but it seems like there wasn't which makes this point kind of moot in this case).

 

Ironically, the Xbox version was available to pirates a week prior to release.

[Moatilliatta]

Source.

 

But as I said this is themselves defining when they were cracked.

 

At Bio boards someone claimed Bioshock was hacked within 24h.

See!

[Pidesco]

Bunk. It took a while, I can't tell you if it took more than a week, but it took more than two days.

 

Yeah. Four days to be exact. a crack was available the 25th of august and the game was released on the 21st. As far as I can tell though, the first crack was not perfect, and another was out first of september. Maybe that's where the Bioshock people got two weeks.

 

Also, there is actually a very big difference between avoid being pirated and avoid being cracked. There are two ways for pirates to get their games. Cracks or clones. Clones are typically out faster. (I have no idea if there was a clone release for Bioshock though, but it seems like there wasn't which makes this point kind of moot in this case).

 

Ironically, the Xbox version was available to pirates a week prior to release.

 

Bioshock didn't get clones because had to be activated online, and the main exe file had to be downloaded. That's what slowed down the cracking somewhat, by the way. I know for certain that Bioshock was cracked before my copy arrived in the mail.

[Spider]

I spoke too soon, it seems. Checked it a bit more and while there was a cracked version released four days after release, the one didn't work unless you had a valid serial (I'm guessing not many pirates did).

 

The first working one was the one released September 1st, ten days after the release. (from comments I've read, that could have been available a day or two earlier for people who knew were to look though)

Edited May 8, 2008 by Spider

[Gromnir]

from a practical standpoint, this seems like a non-issue for non-pirates. 5 day window makes highly unlikely that any legit users is gonna suffer genuine problems.

 

is it rough that folks with no internet connection is screwed? am sure that the 8 people who does buy game but has no internet connection will be very pissed.

 

btw Gromnir, unlike vol, is hardly a bioware apologist. heck, we is banned from their boards for having temerity to suggest that the dialogue wheel were no innovation. even so, given just how rampant piracy is, and recognizing that this ain't gonna genuine hurt 99.99999% of legit purchasers, we got no real issue. is probably a waste o' bio resources given just how easy it is for haX0rs to circumvent, but am s'posing that developers/publishers feels like they gotta do something.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 8, 2008 by Gromnir

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I might have considered buying it, but knowing the level of authentication Bioware will put me through and the level of distrust and suspicion that naturally comes with it, I'm very unlikely to buy and play it now.

 

Exactly. I would rather wait and spend my money on something, the Sins of the Solar Empire expansion or, hopefully, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky for example, that will not have the headache that is overused, unwarranted copy protection. If the game is available on Steam without the hassle, maybe - but unless I can get a legal copy without the bull**** I'm unlikely to buy, and play, the game. I mean, I find CD/DVD-checks annoying and wish that more companies would put out no-cd patches once their games reach a certain age - too think that I would willingly buy into this god awful, half arsed system when there are other, less annoying, games on the market -that are equally good- is ludicrous.

 

Most people don't play 15 year old games. Heck, most people couldn't figure out how to run a game older than 5 on a new OS. It's a small minority that reaches that far back for their entertainment.

 

Blasphemy!

[random n00b]

Yay incoherence!

[Humodour]

Anyway, nobody really complains about CD-Keys, do they? That's equivalent to ID checks. The 10 day thing is like you're having a drink int he bar and every 10 minutes someone checks your ID.

 

Yeah but do you have any idea how annoying that is compared to a one-off door check?

[Tale]

I think there's some major differences with the ID analogy overall. This isn't drinking. I'm not handling controlled substances that are illegal to distribute to minors. I'm playing a video game.

 

It's closer to being put on parole. For being a customer.

 

I'm come to accept CD-keys easily. I could probably come up with a ridiculous analogy there. But I don't feel the need to. What I do feel the need to be offended by is the potential lack of control we're allowed over things we purchase. In the US, if they shut down their authentication servers, I no longer have a legal right to play the game I purchased. It's essentially saying that we no longer have right to the media that contributes to our culture.

 

It's like, at Disney's whim, you can no longer tell your children about Snow White, Cinderella, or Peter Pan. You could never show them that movie. They our elements of our culture. What if nobody was allowed to listen to The Beatles again. Or an Elvis album. Legally, anyway. That's quite literally what that is. Music, movies, books, and TV shows have defined generations and culture. Games can do so, too. The Library of Congress recognizes this. They want to start cataloging games. Forcing us to check-in with the publisher for approval to operate these games will prevent that chance of passing on and preserving these things.

 

That's more my contempt for the DMCA combined with this, of course.

 

I can only hope that one day a "culture-preservation" law will be enacted. Something that ensures we can preserve these things indefinitely.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Tale

[Hurlshort]

Actually, Disney movies and classic music typically has to be re-mastered for new technology. Like today people are buying DVD's, tomorrow you will buy Blu-ray's, yesterday we bought VHS.

 

I would love it if they took some classic games and re-mastered them. Sierra did it with a few adventure series by implementing VGA graphics, and it was awesome. I think once technology slows down enough, you'll probably see classic titles getting a good polish job for a new release.

[Tale]

Actually, Disney movies and classic music typically has to be re-mastered for new technology. Like today people are buying DVD's, tomorrow you will buy Blu-ray's, yesterday we bought VHS.

 

I would love it if they took some classic games and re-mastered them. Sierra did it with a few adventure series by implementing VGA graphics, and it was awesome. I think once technology slows down enough, you'll probably see classic titles getting a good polish job for a new release.

Which is a wholly different situation. New technology and remastering is like your new OS being inoperable with software. Not the old software deciding to tell you can to go **** yourself. It doesn't have to be remastered. The old ones still exist and work, barring non-intentional obsolesence. My old books still exist and fully function. I can hand my Berenstein Bears books off to my children to read barring excessive natural wear and tear. The book doesn't clasp itself shut and demand I buy a new copy if one day they decide to republish it.

 

This isn't a "technology moves fast" issue. It's not like people are complaining that they might not be able to use Mass Effect with Windows 7. This isn't a "get the benefit of the newest technology" issue. This is an intentional kill switch that deprives us of control over things we rightfully purchase and might want to keep and preserve.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Tale

[alanschu]

Source.

 

But as I said this is themselves defining when they were cracked.

 

At Bio boards someone claimed Bioshock was hacked within 24h.

See!

 

 

That is interesting as they were concerned about PC piracy affecting console sales. Never considered that before.

[alanschu]

This isn't a "technology moves fast" issue. It's not like people are complaining that they might not be able to use Mass Effect with Windows 7. This isn't a "get the benefit of the newest technology" issue. This is an intentional kill switch that deprives us of control over things we rightfully purchase and might want to keep and preserve.

 

I wonder if it's possible for them to deactivate the check after a certain amount of time, to prevent this from being an issue. Though I guess that would still make fresh installs a problem.

[Moatilliatta]

I doubt that PC-pirates would have any effect on console sales. The people who play a game on the console over the PC are vastly different than their PC brethren, and those that find paying an abhorent practise will get their console chipped.

[alanschu]

I doubt that PC-pirates would have any effect on console sales. The people who play a game on the console over the PC are vastly different than their PC brethren, and those that find paying an abhorent practise will get their console chipped.

 

 

You you are probably correct. I am not sure if it's significant or not, and I would wager it is less so. It was just a viewpoint I hadn't thought of before.

 

However, it could be a piss off if people try a poorly cracked version that ends up being buggy, pirates share those experiences, and people decide not to buy any version based on that information.

[blue]

recognizing that this ain't gonna genuine hurt 99.99999% of legit purchasers

You're right; most new product purchasers will be unaffected. Thinking long-term, however, I suspect more than one in 10 million customers will encounter problems. Posters here have raised legitimate concerns about resales & replayability.

 

 

I