Gorth Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Comparing the social welfare in other nations to the US is flawed reasoning for a number of reasons. First off the population of the US is just shy of 500 million. The population of Iceland is 2.1 million, Canada is 11 million, Austrialia is 40 million. all of Scandanavia together has less people than New York, California, Florida and Texas alone. To paraphrase Ross Perot "You can't take the same business practices used to run a mom and pop country store and and extrapolate them to run Wal Mart (a major department store chain in the US)" *Cough! Cough!*... I shall refrain from making bad jokes about Americans and geography Try checking the population numbers again: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...book/index.html The link is fairly safe, they promise not to collect any information about you “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) *Cough! Cough!*... I shall refrain from making bad jokes about Americans and geography Try checking the population numbers again: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...book/index.html The link is fairly safe, they promise not to collect any information about you Heh, I googled each of those countries and the word population. i pulled the numbers off the google synopsis without even opening the web pages. Except the part about Scandnavia, I read that is the Miami Herald a few weeks ago. Sorry for the sloppy research but I did all of that while stopped at traffic lights! Edited April 29, 2008 by Guard Dog "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 The estimated US population right now is only 303,824,650, not 500 million. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatilliatta Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 So you all agree that "abstinence only sex education" is a crime to teach in schools right? The parents can teach it if they want, but the government has a duty to teach about contraception. I had a rant about the flaws of the common uncompromising, anti-utilitarianism American form of libertarianism written up (including speculation on why it thrives only in America - likely due to a natural ally in conservative religious fundamentalism), but instead I'll just point out that by trying to ensure somebody has a 'right' to cram their religious dogma down the necks of impressionable children, in place of scientifically proven methods of STD prevention, aren't you in fact depriving all those children of the basic civil right to self-determination, choice? Or would you contend they are perhaps not mature enough to see the 'evils' of contraception and thus make an 'informed' decision? I'm sure that logic will protect them when they are off experimenting with sex, but have only abstinence education to protect them from STDs and pregnancy (oh wait, no it doesn't). Hey, perhaps we can play a game of scapegoat and blame the victim instead? I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this Krezack. Parents are always craming their dogma into their children, it's a natural effect of children living with their parents for some 18 years. Also as Guard Dog said, religious fundamentalism rarely stops at the family level and will always try to do like any other ideology and try to affect the rest of society through the government. Reading that article makes me want to get my brain scanned just to see where I fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 So you all agree that "abstinence only sex education" is a crime to teach in schools right? The parents can teach it if they want, but the government has a duty to teach about contraception. I had a rant about the flaws of the common uncompromising, anti-utilitarianism American form of libertarianism written up (including speculation on why it thrives only in America - likely due to a natural ally in conservative religious fundamentalism), but instead I'll just point out that by trying to ensure somebody has a 'right' to cram their religious dogma down the necks of impressionable children, in place of scientifically proven methods of STD prevention, aren't you in fact depriving all those children of the basic civil right to self-determination, choice? Or would you contend they are perhaps not mature enough to see the 'evils' of contraception and thus make an 'informed' decision? I'm sure that logic will protect them when they are off experimenting with sex, but have only abstinence education to protect them from STDs and pregnancy (oh wait, no it doesn't). Hey, perhaps we can play a game of scapegoat and blame the victim instead? I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this Krezack. Parents are always craming their dogma into their children, it's a natural effect of children living with their parents for some 18 years. Also as Guard Dog said, religious fundamentalism rarely stops at the family level and will always try to do like any other ideology and try to affect the rest of society through the government. Reading that article makes me want to get my brain scanned just to see where I fit in. Sorry, I meant that a school has no right to decide to cram detrimental religious dogma down a child's neck, in terms of abstinence instead of contraception (not religion in general). Parents can do as they please (within the law) precisely because it is not feasible (or ethical) to control what a parent does. Will reply to Guard Dog's post later today. He misinterpreted me on a few points, and on others I'd like to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WITHTEETH Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Abstinence only education is usually shrouded in erroneous anti condom propaganda. This is dangerous. Im all for our teens knowing all the options and the statistics behind them. I think that will best prepare them for whats ahead. Nice to see so many people with a level head in here. Always outnumbered, never out gunned! Unreal Tournament 2004 Handle:Enlight_2.0 Myspace Website! My rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Nice to see so many people with a level head in here. Yeah... I thought there was going to be more of a debate. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Abstinence only education is usually shrouded in erroneous anti condom propaganda. This is dangerous. Im all for our teens knowing all the options and the statistics behind them. I think that will best prepare them for whats ahead. Nice to see so many people with a level head in here. Indeed, I may in fact be preaching to the converted, and only end up offending the less fanatical libertarians of Obsidian, which is not my intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I don't see much difference between being taught sex ed, and the stuff I got growing up in Africa about not bothering snakes and lions. *laughs* Having said that I've met some damn hippies who try to tell their kids not to treat animals as dangerous because we're all children of the Earth and so on. LOL "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Will reply to Guard Dog's post later today. He misinterpreted me on a few points, and on others I'd like to discuss. No I won't; I'll spend two days partying in Canberra and reply when I get back if I ever remember. Ciao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Having said that I've met some damn hippies who try to tell their kids not to treat animals as dangerous because we're all children of the Earth and so on. LOL Every animal has the potential being dangerous, even us humans, no matter if they are in the wild or be supposed "tame" beasts. What they need to do is to teach their kids to treat animals and each other with respect and know that animals largely act on instinct. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Having said that I've met some damn hippies who try to tell their kids not to treat animals as dangerous because we're all children of the Earth and so on. LOL Every animal has the potential being dangerous, even us humans, no matter if they are in the wild or be supposed "tame" beasts. What they need to do is to teach their kids to treat animals and each other with respect and know that animals largely act on instinct. Well, yes. Like sexually transmitted viruses. And prophylactics are like puttees. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Remember, Lycanthropy is a STD. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Remember, Lycanthropy is a STD. You mean like when your arm is bitten off? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Sand has a problem with werewolves in general Life itself is a STD with a 100% fatality rate. Information is good. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Will reply to Guard Dog's post later today. He misinterpreted me on a few points, and on others I'd like to discuss. No I won't; I'll spend two days partying in Canberra and reply when I get back if I ever remember. Ciao! Hmmm, argue with me or go partying. Choices don't come much easier than that one! Have fun. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 What about letting parents do their job? http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 What about letting parents do their job? Because some will take the opportunity to spread harmful misinformation and dogma. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 What about letting parents do their job? Because some will take the opportunity to spread harmful misinformation and dogma. Cultural diversity is a good thing... http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 What about letting parents do their job? Because some will take the opportunity to spread harmful misinformation and dogma. And you don't think that some schools won't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 (edited) What about letting parents do their job? Because some will take the opportunity to spread harmful misinformation and dogma. Cultural diversity is a good thing... Not at the expense of the health of children. What about letting parents do their job? Because some will take the opportunity to spread harmful misinformation and dogma. And you don't think that some schools won't? No - but the chance of that happening is less. EDIT: I've got to go take my last final - but I'll be back later. If you have TF2 look for the sever I'll be running for a SoDOFF match around 4:00 EST. Edited May 1, 2008 by Deadly_Nightshade "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 (edited) I remember my sex ed classes. It was every bit as hilarious and embarrassing as the 'talk' with my parents. Except they, thank the gods, didn't have a d.ildo on a wooden stand for demonstration. I have a feeling some things haven't changed, and that kids just figure these things out themselves, and make the same mistakes they always have. Edited May 1, 2008 by Gorgon Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Not at the expense of the health of children. What about letting parents do their job? Because some will take the opportunity to spread harmful misinformation and dogma. And you don't think that some schools won't? No - but the chance of that happening is less. So we shouldn't let parents educate their own children because there is a "chance" that they could be educated with the wrong information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 The parents can educate the children as well, but the schools should provide a back-up just in case the mothers and fathers of America **** things up. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 (edited) The parents can educate the children as well, but the schools should provide a back-up just in case the mothers and fathers of America **** things up. And what do you consider "****ing things up" exactly? Sex education is different in many cultures. Edited May 1, 2008 by Krookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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