An example of why it isn't always God

[walkerguy]

So science didn't do it. Ok, Krezack.

 

I know you find it hard to comprehend even simple ideas, but I'll keep trying anyway: science doesn't know yet (string theory is promising, but so much time has passed it's possible we'll never know). That doesn't mean it was god.

 

I know you find faith hard to understand, and you take comfort in science since you think that there won't be a god in control, that people are.

 

Can you please stop posting in this thread?

 

Ignore me.

 

 

Being serious, say a Hutu was raised to hate Tutsis and kill, he is still evil! Just because he thinks he is correct doesn't change the fact that it is evil.

 

He might have been manipulated into accepting a harmful belief, but he, himself, is not necessarily evil.

 

Ignorant and doing evil acts, sure.

 

 

I don't care if an axe murderer thinks its funny to kill, that is evil. The fact that this is in question shows how far the world has crept into darkness.

 

And yet, you'll argue that a war on forign soil is acceptable in cirtain circumstances. You claim peace and love, but look at the attitudes you showed towards china, you're hardly offering them an olive branch and whatever claims you have that 'they started it' are rended somewhat dubious by 'your' failure to stop it from happening in the first place.

 

After all, if actions are evil, inaction that leads to the same result can be just as evil, and by your own account, intention or even knowledge is no excuse.

 

The point isn't weather ANYTHING is good or evil, the point is that they're both just labels that we give to things based on our own experiences and morals. They can't be absolute or else everyone would agree with them.

 

Look at the old testiment, god purged the world full of sin of all its life, and yet, would it have only taken one good person killed in the flood to make the entire act 'evil'?

 

Good point about "everyone else would agree with them" Earth is made for conflict and conflict is made for Earth, without it, a sudden stop, might shatter the world in shock (for 13 years of war; 1 year of peace worldwide, since recorded time, approx rounded off). Also know that "I" have little power. So some of your arguements are moot. I suppose you mean the USA?

 

NightandtheShape: Go ahead and disagree! Once, again, there is no fact, proof, or evidence of god, ONLY belief through faith. Also:

 

Say my perspective is incorrect and so called goodness- and the "correct" way is killing and raping. I'd argue that I feel much more at peace and happy when I'm not killing and raping, but instead caring and helping. Every person can agree with that, I hope.

Edited March 20, 2008 by walkerguy

[Xard]

I am existentialist.

 

Now that has been said I don't have to go to lenghty explanations

 

 

 

But cud you guys vaporize me sum atoms and show me good? or evil? thnxkbye

[Deadly_Nightshade]

****! Morally debatable issues! Not everything in the world is debatable.

 

I disagree, everything in this world is debatable - there are no absolutes, no inherently good, and no inherently evil.

 

I feel like you're in attack mode, and if you'd please stop and not give an excuse "im trying to understand your ideas" I'd appreciate it.

 

No, I am not attacking you -yet-, I am pointing out flaws in your logic.

 

 

I SAID there IS NO EVIDENCE.

 

Then why do you believe?

[Nick_i_am]

Also know that "I" have little power. So some of your arguements are moot.

 

We're talking about opinions, not actual possible actions so the point stands if you wish to address it.

 

To reiterate simply, can you justify the initiation of a war of foreign soil? I'm not even talking about conflicts like Korea or WW2 where the US was essentially stepping into someone elses conflict, I mean, literally, can you justify starting a war on foreign soil?

[walkerguy]

Nightshade

 

FAITH - 3rd question

 

I disagree. If you argue murdering someone for no good reason is good and not evil, you're an idiot. - 1st statement

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not calling anyone here an idiot, only peoples with such radical views ^^

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Nightshade pretty much sums up the facts from what I can see...

[walkerguy]

Also know that "I" have little power. So some of your arguements are moot.

 

We're talking about opinions, not actual possible actions so the point stands if you wish to address it.

 

To reiterate simply, can you justify the initiation of a war of foreign soil? I'm not even talking about conflicts like Korea or WW2 where the US was essentially stepping into someone elses conflict, I mean, literally, can you justify starting a war on foreign soil?

 

As this would be the basis for many peoples assaults on me, I'm needing more "circumstances" to conisder whether or not I should launch my attack*.

 

* as in "would I start a war"

[Deadly_Nightshade]

FAITH - 3rd question

 

But why do you have faith in something that you have no proof of?

 

I disagree. If you argue murdering someone for no good reason is good and not evil, you're an idiot.

 

Again, I must differ you to my last response - if murder and killing are inherently evil, why is the soldier who kills during war any different from the person who stabs you in the subway?

[Nick_i_am]

If you argue murdering someone for no good reason is good and not evil, you're an idiot.

 

That's the real issue here walkerdude, NOBODY is arguing that murdering someone for no reason isn't evil. What the ARE arguing is that there is always a reason and that that being a good reason or not is what's up for debate.

 

To some people there is NEVER a good reason, but you think that sometimes the reason is justified.

 

This isn't a discussion on morals, it's a discussion on the notion that, given the above, it's very hard to put the notion of murder into the catagory of either good or evil 100% of the time.

 

You seem to understand this, but i'm just trying to clarify what other people are talking about.

 

They are NOT arguing that murder is good, they're questioning your idea that it's always bad, except where it's good, because YOU'RE the one deciding when it's good or bad.

 

That is to say, the contridiction in your argument.

 

If you're saying that murder is always evil when it's done for no good reason, then nobody is disagreeing with you. What they are disagreing with is the notion that it's a universal truth of what counts as 'no good reason'.

[Xard]

DISCLAIMER: I am not calling anyone here an idiot, only peoples with such radical views ^^

 

 

For what we need some Absolute Moral Truths set by some obscure greater being? Shouldn't we humans try define good and evil by ourselves, from our own lives and capabilities and things we have read and learned about?

 

I think if we oppose evil because we've come to intellectual and emotional conclusion of its evilness by ourselves it is by far more pure and more real than some sort of God setting the answers before us.

 

After all, if I became God and started to define all sorts of crazy **** as good or evil, would you just obey and follow the lead like a sheep? For example I could set something like this

 

Sacrificing infants during moring is proper way to celebrate my greatness and inherently good.

 

However, if you sacrifice infants by nightfall you shall be stoned to death for your inhuman, despicable act.

 

And I was God here, these being definitive absolutes in Universe which I created. Why my creations couldn't come up with more purer, realer morals for themselves?

Edited March 20, 2008 by Xard

[walkerguy]

Xard: We just don't do that. Power to God, nothing to the masses.

 

Nick & Whoever: Just don't say that genocide and rape could be righteous, or at least please don't try to argue it because thats bullcrap* simply put.

 

* or bollocks for those some of you

[Xard]

Who said anything about masses? It's all about individuality and finding your own raison d'

Edited March 20, 2008 by Xard

[Nick_i_am]

Nick & Whoever: Just don't say that genocide and rape could be righteous, or at least please don't try to argue it because thats bullcrap* simply put.

 

Nobody said that. You missed the point.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[walkerguy]

Goodbye, then.

[kirottu]

Nick & Whoever: Just don't say that genocide and rape could be righteous, or at least please don't try to argue it because thats bullcrap* simply put.

 

Nobody said that. You missed the point.

 

He

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Far as I am concerned my impression is that if I don't believe what walkerguy believes I must be an idiot... Which is fine, it's retarded, it's evil, but it's fine.

Edited March 20, 2008 by @\NightandtheShape/@

[Nick_i_am]

He

Edited March 20, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[Xard]

...and I made two rather friendly and conversationaly posts instead of going all lol. For nothing!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Nick & Whoever: Just don't say that genocide and rape could be righteous, or at least please don't try to argue it because thats bullcrap* simply put.

 

* or bollocks for those some of you

 

*Bangs head on desk*

Cannot you understand what we are saying?

[Istima Loke]

...

 

And I was God here, these being definitive absolutes in Universe which I created. Why my creations couldn't come up with more purer, realer morals for themselves?

 

Though if it's your own creations (the people) you could have made them so that this would be what they understood as good or evil. The point being that if we accept the fact that god created us so that we can perceive various acts as good or evil it is arbitrary to believe that we could be able to change that.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Nightshade pretty much sums up the facts from what I can see...

 

I thank you.

 

Goodbye, then.

 

Goodbye.

[Xard]

Uhh, I should've said I "hijacked" this Universe but I thought that sounded little bit too weird and my point would've been lost

[Pop]

There's a whole lot of mouth-breathin' goin on!

 

I'm sorry I missed it.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Pop

[Hurlshort]

This thread has gotten really bizarre. The various argument styles on this forum are always entertaining.

[Guest The Architect]

No, I'm not a Christian, Nightshape.

 

I hope nobody thought I was attempting to argue that there isn't a moral-grey area. I was trying to argue that there is good and evil, and the intent of the offender is what determines how right/wrong an act is. Hell Kitty & I agree on that, just that I thought he didn't because I thought it was him that said there's no good and evil, so that was my fault. Sorry about that.

 

What I am going to argue, though, is that common sense > perspective. Sometimes it is black and white {eg; a mass murderer goes on a killing spree. They say they just did it for fun, because they were bored, yet they don't think what they did was wrong}. Who in their right mind could rationally argue that what the perpetrator did wasn't wrong?

 

Of course, I know it isn

Edited March 21, 2008 by The Architect