KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion, Part 24

[Tale]

K3 needs blood. I see blood mentioned on the Rating box thingy, but I don't see any blood ingame.

 

Seriously. I'm not asking for huge blood spurts when killing an enemy (lightsabers have a tendency to heat-seal wounds), but at least some sort of blood from an unshielded enemy being hit with a sword.

 

Though I have to admit, after playing Mass Effect, Kotor's sword combat looks a bit silly.

Star Wars have never been bloody, so I don't think that will suddenly occur in KotOR III.

 

I wouldn't exactly call cutting off hands and arms with a lightsaber unbloody.

I would considering it instantly cauterizes them and you end up with only a dark brown stump.

[eRAZOR]

K3 needs blood. I see blood mentioned on the Rating box thingy, but I don't see any blood ingame.

 

Seriously. I'm not asking for huge blood spurts when killing an enemy (lightsabers have a tendency to heat-seal wounds), but at least some sort of blood from an unshielded enemy being hit with a sword.

 

Though I have to admit, after playing Mass Effect, Kotor's sword combat looks a bit silly.

Star Wars have never been bloody, so I don't think that will suddenly occur in KotOR III.

 

I wouldn't exactly call cutting off hands and arms with a lightsaber unbloody.

I would considering it instantly cauterizes them and you end up with only a dark brown stump.

 

Umm, sounds much better. Not?

[Dark_Raven]

Use a vibroblade. No cauterizing and lots of blood.

[Omelette]

Use your imagination for the blood.

[Darth Big Mac]

I want the Hawk to be customizable. In Overlord you can buy stuff to put in your fortress and make it look really royal and totally evil. The stuff doesn't actually do anything, but it looks cool. The Hawk always seems so empty. It 'd be cool if you could buy gun racks or special places to put armor and saber. You could make a trophy system like they had in Fable and mount Sith artifacts in your quarters, or maybe a rancor head. You could buy a couch or security droids that walk around. Maybe you could even change parts of the Hawk to your liking, add new turrets or anyother kind of feature you want. It wouldn't add much to the campaign but it'd be an extra thing to do in between major missions.

[Darth Jebus]

What's that on the front page of the website? Something about an opening for a Senior Level Designer for a console RPG?

[dustin19]

not sure but im not gettin my hopes up!

[CReds14]

I've been away from the forums a little while so this may have already been asked/critiqued/shredded: If bioware were to make K3 or obsidian made it and either used Mass Effect's engine how could lightsaber combat be incorporated into it? The power/weapons wheel generated by pushing RB or LB would be decent for force powers/forms and weapons but melee combat would have to be jedi knight series style wouldn't it? Or do you just add turn-based into the combat sequences? My game development knowledge is about nil but unless someone has been working on the game behind the scenes for a while or will be working on it for a while they're probably going to use an established engine aren't they?

Edited January 13, 2008 by CReds14

[theslug]

Just because a game has the same engine doesn't mean it has to use the exact same interface or even be the same genre of game. The engine will only define what limits and to what extent a game will perform, graphically and otherwise. But yes, I wish Bioware would make kotor 3 right after Jade Empire goes gold, using the same engine and dialogue system but this time get some really great writers in on it. It'd also be awesome they used the influence system that obsidian added and fleshed it out more.

 

However none of that really matters since the mmo bioware is doing is based on Kotor so it's pretty much all gone. But I suppose that is a good thing since it means the possibility of a new story line and new characters with new technology to make a better game.

[Dark Wastl]

What do you mean, great writers, their writers are almost always the same, though they don't always work the same amount. The lead-writer of KOTOR was also the lead-writer on Mass Effect and writer on Jade Empire.

 

The Bioware-MMO being KOTOR is pure speculation. There are some hints that it might be the case, but as of right now, there is no proof for a KOTOR-MMO, heck, there isn't even proof that the MMO is the same as the LucasArts project or that the LucasArts project is even a Star Wars game, much less a KOTOR-game.

[Bass-GameMaster]

I thought Mass Effect was a good game, but really short. Even after all sidequest I didnt feel It was long. Kotor 2 no matter how fast I played it was usually about 15-20 hours

[Starwars]

I would definetely want Obsidian to have a go at KOTOR3 (with MCA in the lead). I think KOTOR2 is a bit of a flawed diamond, flawed largely because of the *very* tight schedule they got to make the game. I'd love to see an Obsidian KOTOR where they have all the time they need to get all the content in.

 

As for battles, I think it's without a doubt the weakest side of the KOTOR series. Now, I doubt many KOTOR fans would want to see a heavy, more strategical turnbased system like I do, so I suppose that's not plausible for this game considering it's part of a series. But I'd seriously want to have a more beefed up and complex combat system, that actually requires some thought. As well as have the overall approach to encounters be re-evaluated to include memorable and difficult encounters instead of hordes of easy and boring enemies.

If possible I'd like to have the D&D remnants of the rule system removed and have it be replaced with something that doesn't feel like "D&D lite". I still want the game to be statfocused and left to the characters skill (no "twitch" so to speak), but have the rulesystem be its own beast.

 

I suppose I'm fine with the KOTOR cameraview, though I don't like it per say. I'd like to have a top-down camera included (like the NWN2 one) in the game though, with completely mouse-driven gameplay. That would be a huge help for me personally in managing the party.

 

I believe the actual gameplay outside the story/conversations to be really lacking in these games, and I think it pulls the games down. It's to boring, to simplified.

[Xard]

As for battles, I think it's without a doubt the weakest side of the KOTOR series. Now, I doubt many KOTOR fans would want to see a heavy, more strategical turnbased system like I do, so I suppose that's not plausible for this game considering it's part of a series. But I'd seriously want to have a more beefed up and complex combat system, that actually requires some thought. As well as have the overall approach to encounters be re-evaluated to include memorable and difficult encounters instead of hordes of easy and boring enemies.

If possible I'd like to have the D&D remnants of the rule system removed and have it be replaced with something that doesn't feel like "D&D lite". I still want the game to be statfocused and left to the characters skill (no "twitch" so to speak), but have the rulesystem be its own beast.

 

 

I agree here.

 

 

But not on camera, one and only saving grace of Kotor combat (which makes it somewhat enthralling ) are superb combat animations. I love watching lightsaber dueling in Kotors. Top down view wouldn't fit.

[Starwars]

I agree that combat animations have become an important part of the KOTORs, but what can I say? I feel they can still look equally impressive (in a different way perhaps) using a top-down perspective (well, a free camera so to speak like in NWN2). In some ways I actually think it could look cooler as one would get away from the characters, and therefore potential animation "quirks" so to speak that may not be as appearant as when the camera is right up the butt of the PC.

 

And it's not a suggestion to remove the camera/control system of the current KOTORs, simply to add another view. While it didn't bother me greatly, there were times where I *really* wish that my view wasn't so "locked" as it is in the games.

[Magister Lajciak]

Changing of the combat system would probably only serve to move the game towards 'twitch-based' realtime combat. That is the trend these days, so I doubt that in changing the combat system developers would chose a turn-based one.

[Xard]

To be honest RTwP is IMO only good way to go with lightsaber combat (as crazy as it sounds). TB with action points & all lightsaber combat would be just so... wrong.

 

One might argue RL lightsaber combat is only way to go. However only SW game with real time combat that resembled lightsaber fighting at all is Episode III license game and overall the system sucked horribly. Although MP was somewhat fun.

 

Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy had good combat system, but it didn't represent elegant lightsaber fights of the movies at all. Well, mabe the bouncing Yoda thing but not otherwise...

 

I agree that combat animations have become an important part of the KOTORs, but what can I say? I feel they can still look equally impressive (in a different way perhaps) using a top-down perspective (well, a free camera so to speak like in NWN2). In some ways I actually think it could look cooler as one would get away from the characters, and therefore potential animation "quirks" so to speak that may not be as appearant as when the camera is right up the butt of the PC.

 

And it's not a suggestion to remove the camera/control system of the current KOTORs, simply to add another view. While it didn't bother me greatly, there were times where I *really* wish that my view wasn't so "locked" as it is in the games.

 

I think close camera angle is essential for cinematic star warsy experience.

 

 

Though I did have that feeling every once in a while, yeah.

[Starwars]

Well, what I like about the free camera is that I can sometimes create my own "cinematic moments". Dueling it out with a Sith Lord in the dark with a full zoomed out camera, only seeing the two lightsabers flashing. Then zooming and spinning around etc etc type of thing.

 

Anyways, another things that *really* bugs me but I suppose wouldn't be changed. The combat needs to be more deadly. It bugs the hell out of me that I can stand and basically bash a Tusken Raider or whatever with my friggin' lightsaber, and he's only taking damage like I'm hitting him with, well, something not quite so deadly.

It does not need to be instant death or anything, but it seriously feels silly that my character, a Jedi, have to spend time bashing away at a Tusken Raiders gaffi stick.

 

Something needs to be done to at least lessen this effect I think. Obviously it's a bit hard to balance the combat in a game where you are playing something as powerful as a Jedi Knight, but even so.

 

And argh, please remove the vibroblades. I don't know if there were an original invention of KOTOR or not, but they're awful. It makes sense for Jedi to wield lightsabers because of their supernatural senses, but I don't see why regular people/aliens would actually fight lesser battles/wars with freakin' swords when there are blaster rifles at hand. You can't block blaster shots with Vibroblades (again, except if you're a Jedi perhaps). Of course people could keep a melee weapon (likely something smaller than a sword though) about their person, to quickly stab someone who might turn hostile on them. But I just don't see it being a "weapon of war" so to speak. There can be exceptions of course, with specific alien species or human tribes that use special forms of melee weapons due to *extreme* skill with them. But I just don't think people would run around waving swords around when there are things like blasters.

[Hawac]

The vibroblades where inserted in the first Kotor game to be used to destroy enemy shields, I can admit they made a bit more than that. But remember what Carth said, that the republic (and perhaps many others then) trained thier forces in melee combat so that they would be able to take down shielded strike teams.

So if u are going to remove to vibroblades you are going to need some kind of replacment for them, and it would have to make sense that the army of the republic would exchange the blades for whatever the replacement would be.

[Tale]

The vibroblades where inserted in the first Kotor game to be used to destroy enemy shields, I can admit they made a bit more than that. But remember what Carth said, that the republic (and perhaps many others then) trained thier forces in melee combat so that they would be able to take down shielded strike teams.

So if u are going to remove to vibroblades you are going to need some kind of replacment for them, and it would have to make sense that the army of the republic would exchange the blades for whatever the replacement would be.

Vibroblades were inserted in the first Kotor game to be used to fight with swords as an alternative or prelude to lightsabers. Carth's explanation was just an in-setting justification for the fact that military tech developed essentially backwards.

 

Personal shields are also out of place in Star Wars. And it's easy to create an in-setting justification for their removal too. New blasters ignored them or they're trivial compared to new blasters, so they become discarded as useless.

 

I'm with Starwars. Here's to hoping a KOTOR III looks more like Star Wars and less like D&D.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Tale

[Xard]

Yeah, Bioware's worst dumb****ing with the setting was inserting "personal shields" and "I can stand against anything lol" vibroblades.

 

Explanaion was very weak for latter, first one didn't even have one. Somehow all the damn weapons in whole frickin' galaxy are covered with cortosis so they can stand up against foes with lightsabers. Encountering sith and jedi in combat is indeed so likely. And what kind of dumb**** would even try melee in that situation when there's option of running away? Geez. Not to mention cortosis is extremely rare.

 

Makes. No. ****ing. Sense.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Xard

[dustin19]

Yeah, Bioware's worst dumb****ing with the setting was inserting "personal shields" and "I can stand against anything lol" vibroblades.

 

Explanaion was very weak for latter, first one didn't even have one. Somehow all the damn weapons in whole frickin' galaxy are covered with cortosis so they can stand up against foes with lightsabers. Encountering sith and jedi in combat is indeed so likely. And what kind of dumb**** would even try melee in that situation when there's option of running away? Geez. Not to mention cortosis is extremely rare.

 

Makes. No. ****ing. Sense.

wow :/

[amomynous]

Before I begin my message I want to throw out an advanced "sorry if this has been said before or if it's in the wrong place" i'm new to this board and am a casual game player at most. the kotor games have probably been the only games that i have ever repeatedly played and as a star wars fan i have been particularly fascinated by the expanded universe that kotor exists in. as such i would like to throw in my thoughts about what possible story elements could exist in kotor 3. i am contributing this because i am curious about it from a literary standpoint and would like some discussion.

 

firstly, i think there are some obvious question that need answering by the third installment.

1. who is reven and where did he come from/go to?

2. who is the exile and what does he really have to do with reven? (i feel this was not answered in kotor 2)

3. what is the "THREAT" that exists in the unknown regions and what are the true sith?

 

If you ask me, Reven is the anakin skywalker of this series. the story revolves around him. so after doing so significant research on star wars wiki, i found some interesting connections that i feel could help set a foundation for this next installment. I realize that i am attempting to write star wars canon and that my knowledge is probably lacking, but i did find it interesting that much of what i looked up was either unanswered or was being modified by original authors. (this makes me hope that i am at least on the write track as to answering some of my questions.)

 

The origins of the threat from the true sith can be dated back to the fall of the Rakata empire around 28,000 BBY. As the infinite empire began to collapse from over extension, the dark force energy that infested Rakatan society (and would later cause a plague which led to their destruction) created a rift in the force. This rift manifested itself in a leader of the Sith species, King Adas of Korriban whose understanding of the force up till then was merely magic and not true mastery. With this new found power, Adas was able to crush the Rakatan invaders and bring his race on Korriban to a great army of force users. Adas lost his life during the Rakatan repulsion however, before his death he created a holocron which he learned from the Rakata himself. This holocron held the secrets of the power he had only briefly tasted before his death. It was the culmination of the force power that was used by the Rakata for millennia and held the greatest secrets of the force. Then, after the collapse of the Rakata and the death of Adas, his sith followers and his holocron disappeared. It is believed that his followers left for the unknown regions as they sought the darkness of the outer rim to conceal their existence.

 

24,000 years later, Adas

[dustin19]

u rly did do ur research ... im impressed !! and welcome to the forums i think ur ideas are great !!

[dustin19]

what is everybodys opinion on the lucasarts bioware contract ??? do u think it could finnally b kotor 3 or just another let down ??

[Guest The Architect]

Yeah K3 could do without crap like blades, stimulants, head gear, shields and filler **** you didn't see in the movies. Just stick with crystals, lightsabers, blasters, gloves, grenades and robes as far as equipment goes, and you're good.

 

To be honest I like the dialogue and combat system in Mass Effect. I wouldn't mind if K3 takes this route, so long as the lightsaber combat isn't like that JA style crap. I don't know what to recommend for combat, since I don't know **** about this.

 

I guess I'd go with what Xard said for saber combat, since he knows his ****.

 

And amomynous, the idea that Revan was created is lame. Anakin, anyone? As in we already have an unnaturally conceived ****wit. Besides, you can learn from Kreia in K2 that Revan {the real Revan, not mind ****ed Revan} had a mother and father, just like any other normal Jedi, and unless the Exile was also amnesic, I find it incredibly odd that he/she failed to mention anything about his/her "created" origins in K2, or someone else failing to mention it.

 

And it's already been figured out somewhere in this bundle of K3 threads that the True Sith are the descendants/remnants of the Ragnos/Kressh/Sadow mob of pricks, not some ancient as mob of ****ers that've just been dancing around doing **** all for thousands of years. And since when did Revan's age become known? Also from when Revan joined the Mandalorian Wars to when he/she left for the Unknown Regions after K1 wasn't an 18 year gap.

Edited January 17, 2008 by The Architect