The Battlestar Galactica Thread

[Humodour]

So apparently Natalie might not be dead and Tigh is pregnant.

[Pidesco]

Wait, what?

[Jediphile]

They sure are moving along slowly.

 

 

WTF is up with Athena? Why did she kill that Six Cylon? That should create some complications with the fleets dealings with the rebel Cylons.

 

Yes, but

it is a mother-offspring thing, which about the most potent bond there is - there is little a mother is not willing to do in order to protect her child, and by seeing Six take Hera away from her in the shared dream/vision and seeing Hera draw Six in her sketchbook, Athena feels that Six is threatening her position as Hera's mother. That's a dangerous thing in any event.

 

 

However, I must say that this episode was clearly the best I've seen this year, because something clicked into place. Maybe I'm just slow for not seeing it before, but a penny dropped this episode.

The cylons have consistently been characterized as children or childlike in how they approach things. In essence, they're grown children without parents, and such people are pretty nasty.

 

When Natalia explained how going beyond the range of the insurrection ships and thus being forced to confront their own mortality, that's when the penny dropped for me. It may seem corny to say, but basically I get the impression that the 12 cylon models are humans and vice versa. It's just that cylons have immortality by virtue of being able to download and resurrect.

 

Isn't a pivotal moment in a child's growth into adulthood the moment the child realises his or her own mortality and has to come to terms with it? The cylons have never dealt with that, because they're basically immortal - "so what if I lose my arm doing this - I can just download and get a new body..." and similar. By not having to deal with mortality, the cylons essentially remain in a constant childlike state of progression. It's only when went beyond the range of their resurrection ships and had to accept that their choices and their consequences were permanent to themselves that they began to grow and evolve into more adult individuals.

 

That's the point I see Ron Moore making, and considering it over the course of the show, it makes heaps of sense. It also breaks down the boundaries between humans and the cylon models, because once you remove resurrection, it turns out there is very, very little difference between them. Sure, you could argue the cylons have done inhuman things, but isn't our own history ripe with similar inhuman events? The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and Hitler's Nazi regime come readily to mind. And aren't children really nasty when it comes down to it? I mean, consider what children do and say to each other. Consider what happens if you give them guns or even more powerful weapons. Now remove the parents. Am I the only one seeing the known cylon models emerging from that perspective? The fact that the known members of the final five are struggling with whether they're human or cylons really just seems to underscore that in the end there is really no difference between humans and cylons. In this episode that is echoed by both sides struggling with the dangers of trusting the other side and planning to deceive them while fearing the consequences.

 

In short, I think this was a fantastic episode that quietly unveiled some very central points of the series. If Ron Moore can keep this up, what remains could be truly awesome.

 

[Gorgon]

Why are we using spoiler tags ?

 

I mean if you don't want to know about BSG you could for instance not read a thread called BSG

[Jediphile]

Why are we using spoiler tags ?

 

I mean if you don't want to know about BSG you could for instance not read a thread called BSG

 

True, but I was replying to Dark Raven who did the same, and while I agree with you, I've taken flak in the past for saying stuff I would never have taken as a spoiler, so I prefer to err on the side of caution. After all, you can't go wrong if you use the spoiler tags, can you? Or do they seem annoying? I'd happily refrain from using them, but then I'm very aware that my defintion of what constitutes a spoiler differs from that of other people.

[roshan]

Natalie

 

All in all, really good and dramatic episode. Its great that the show is finally returning back to the topic of the visions. The drama building up between the humans and the rebel cylons is great too.

[astr0creep]

Natalie

 

All in all, really good and dramatic episode. Its great that the show is finally returning back to the topic of the visions. The drama building up between the humans and the rebel cylons is great too.

 

 

I also like the fact that for two episodes now they have been referring to "The Plan", how it is changing because of the actions of certain individuals and so on.

 

This Ep was absolutely riveting with what is probably the best cliffhanger the series has so far produced.

 

Like Jedidude something also clicked for me and I also realized that without resurrection, Cylons are just like humans and this got me thinking about the famous "All this has happened before and all will happen again" thing...

 

 

What's up with Gaeta? Is he the fifth or what?

[Humodour]

Spoiler for next episode (two weeks away):

 

 

Natalie goes into surgery.

 

[Humodour]

Upon reflection, I'm becoming more and more inclined to think Gaeta is the fifth.

 

1) They're giving him a large amount of air-time, even though he's relatively 'useless' and unimportant. (c.f. Dualla, even Lee)

2) Why bother with the leg amputation? To me it screams "plot device". An effective way to truly show how human Cylons are - who would suspect a nice guy who had his bloody leg chopped off to be a Cylon, phantom limb and all?

3) He's singing. Haha.

 

And yeah, I appreciated Natalie's little 'mortality' speech that episode. I actually bought it - it was nice. I hope she survives.

[Gorgon]

Theres plenty of sixes to go around.

[Gorgon]

I did think that Athena shooting her was not sufficiently justified, or maybe Grace Park's acting muscles are just not as fit as the rest of her.

[Jediphile]

I did think that Athena shooting her was not sufficiently justified, or maybe Grace Park's acting muscles are just not as fit as the rest of her.

 

Agreed. But people do extreme things, reasonable or otherwise, when they feel their children are threatened. Even the idea of coming between a mother and her child is dangerous sitaution at best.

[Humodour]

Theres plenty of sixes to go around.

 

Uh, no, the entire point is that they are becoming individuals and that each one is mortal.

 

I did think that Athena shooting her was not sufficiently justified, or maybe Grace Park's acting muscles are just not as fit as the rest of her.

 

I thought it was fine.

 

a) It had been building up for many episodes how she was paranoid six was going to steal Hera, and then suddenly she sees that playbook about 6, and finds six cuddling Hera and stuff. Maternal instinct, boom.

b) You could tell she was determined to end the threat. I thought that part acting was fairly obvious.

[Gorgon]

Mmm.. I just pondered something, what I think would be a nice twist. What if the destruction of the human race consists in the ability to reproduce passing from human to cylon. This would then be tied somehow with the cylons losing their ability to download.

 

I think I like the percentages of this really being the case.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Gorgon

[Humodour]

Hmm. Can you explain that a bit more? Not sure I follow.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Krezack

[Gorgon]

I dunno, maybe the cylon resurrection hub contains something important to human reproduction as well as cylon resurrection.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Gorgon

[Gorgon]

Kara is the one who led them to the eventuality of the attack on the cylon hub, so it makes sense that it would somehow be a momentous mistake.

[Tale]

I think that's a bit of a jumpy conclusion. There's speculation and then there's fantasy. Destroying the hub isn't a mistake, it's more likely that things simply won't go as planned. As is already appearing quite evident by how the last episode ended. Things such as the alliance breaking (the Cylons just "kidnapped" the president, the humans just "assassinated" the Cylon leader) could lead to their destruction.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Tale

[Gorgon]

Ohh I wouldn't call it a conclusion.

[Humodour]

I think that's a bit of a jumpy conclusion. There's speculation and then there's fantasy. Destroying the hub isn't a mistake, it's more likely that things simply won't go as planned. As is already appearing quite evident by how the last episode ended. Things such as the alliance breaking (the Cylons just "kidnapped" the president, the humans just "assassinated" the Cylon leader) could lead to their destruction.

 

It's funny those two things happened, really. I suspect in the end because both sides fubar'd, it will actually lead to an alliance, whereas if just one side ****ed up, it would be impossible.

[Guard Dog]

Kara is the one who led them to the eventuality of the attack on the cylon hub, so it makes sense that it would somehow be a momentous mistake.

 

That is actually a pretty ineresting idea...

[Humodour]

Interesting episode. Kind of takes everything and turns it on its head.

[Gorgon]

Kind of another filler episode, moving the pieces into position for something thats going to happen later.

[Gorgon]

And again with the lack of understandable motivation for some characters. Ok so Romeo went a little cabin crazy, but the whole thing just seemed a little contrived. Drama out of nowhere. Deus ex machina character writing. Granted he's a better actor and that always helps, but still.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Gorgon

[Pidesco]

The guy who plays Lee Adama is a pretty awful actor.