Mask o' the Betrayer!

[Spider]

on the other hand, eternal rest gets us to 100% much faster and gives us a spirit essence... though we ain't used crafting yet, so am not sure how useful gaining a brilliant spirit essence for a void wraith really is. more important, for folks who not want excessive law points (would be willing to concede that 1 lawful point per every 2 or 3 suppress attempts would seem more appropriate than 2 for every 1,) eternal rest is a much less painful option than devour spirit.

 

This is kinda my point. Devour Spirit/Eternal Rest both fill up your Spirit Meter a lot faster than suppressing (and suppressing is not a net gain if your craving is high enough, although I don't know what the cut off point is). Both Devour Spirit and Eternal Rest give you an additional bonus in the shape of Spirit Essence. But while Devour Spirit does so at a cost (increased craving), Eternal Rest is basically free.

 

I just think that the conflict should be between Suppressing - which is inefficient but lets you keep control, and Devour Spirit - which is a higher increase, but comes at the cost of increased craving. I also like that Devouring is necessary to get Spirit Essences that are needed for (some) crafting. But then comes Eternal Rest and lets you do all the things Devour does, but without the drawbacks. It just removes the tension for me.

 

Or to put it another way, I don't like it when there are clearly "best" options. So to me, Eternal Rest almost felt like cheating, at least outside of dialogue. But that's me.

 

(of course, I didn't use Eternal Rest much outside of dialogue. I used an old interface mod that stopped a lot of feats from being displayed once I installed the expansion, so I didn't see what Eternal Rest did until way after I had cleared the Shadow Realm. And for me there were not many respawns either, so once I learned what Eternal Rest was, there weren't many chances to use it).

[Gromnir]

ps

 

please keep in mind that spirit meter ain't a major annoyance for Gromnir. is a minor irritant... a gnat. is as if obsidian had added weighty gold and made it so that unretrieved loot disappears after a short time. such a thing really woulds accomplishes very little save that Gromnir would avoid resting and we would occasionally feels like we were in a rush to get back to town... which is what we is facing now with motb. a minor annoyance that not enhance gameplay. am nowhere near as irritated as is Di or gorgon. our annoyance is as a gnat, no more than a gnat.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

"This is kinda my point."

 

still not seeing the point... or maybe you is missing ours. yeah, clearly once you have 0 or no craving eternal rest is "best", but from a practical standpoint, is only best 'cause it saves you some time. use suppress a handful o' times and your craving is minimized, and from that point you gets a net gain with rest/supress. sit somewheres with okku and some spirits and play around with suppress. even if your crave is high it only takes a couple o' suppressions to reduce to a point where you is getting a net gain... and as you can sleep as often as you wish...

 

again, all you is really saving yourself is some time.

 

suppress is best for getting craving down.

 

eternal rest is best for keeping spirit meter up.

 

btw, if you didn't bother to read the descriptor for eternal rest when it became available, we gots little sympathy for you... though given how few folks seems to be using eternal rest you does not appear to be alone. maybe obsidian shoulda' assumed that players gots a short attention span and would not read full descriptions of all new feats acquired. is a lesson they should be fully aware of by now.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Spider]

I wasn't trying to evoke sympathy with the last part. I liked the Spirit Eater mechanic and since I would like it more if Eternal Rest didn't exist, not using that particular ability didn't lessen my enjoyment of the game one bit.

 

I typically do read feat descriptions as soon as I get a new one, it was just that I couldn't. It's just that I liked playing with the UI mod so I didn't really want to remove it. But in the need I had to when I picked up other feats I wanted to drag to the hotbar (basically no non-general feats would show up for any character).

[Cantousent]

That's funny. I was like a broken record in terms of suppress and, under the right regimen, it not only allows characters to rest frequently, it demands that players rest at specific times under specific circumstances. After the initial curse begins, the character must go to the telthor badger next to the lodge, summon all available elementals, and have Okku in the party. You can do this without Okku, but he makes life sooo much easier for a suppression/rest approach. You Suppress and then rest in the middle of this huge bunch of elementals. Then you do the same thing repeatedly until you get more spirit energy from suppressing than you lose by resting. Get your craving down to zero and then, this is the important part, rest every time your spirit energy gets down to around 80. The reason for that is simple, in many places you'll be ambushed and you have to have enough of a reserve to rest a few times under those conditions. This works in every module until the final battle, where the PC is pretty much compelled to devour spirit. The last time I played that battle, I don't see how the PC could survive without using devour spirit. Suprisingly, since it uses up so much spirit energy, bestow life force combined with devour spirit worked very well.

 

...And I'm not saying that folks should play it all that way. I'm just saying that the player can use such a strategy to be able to rest.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Cantousent

[Xard]

Oh my God. That Telthor badger was INSANE

[Xard]

I am, of course, talking about that cute and "little" badger outside Ice Troll Lodge.

 

As if beating all those pesky berserkers wasn't already hard enough...

[Pop]

Sounds like a job for Vampiric Feast.

[Cantousent]

That would be a waste, though. That badger could feed you spirit energy for a month just by itself. Or you could just stand next to it and force yourself not to feed.

 

Seriously, though, I wonder if that counts as most folks favorite battle.

[Gromnir]

finished.

 

...

 

am gonna break our observations into segments... mostly 'cause we don't have time for a single long review.

 

the jnpcs weren't near as compelling for Gromnir as others here seem to find 'em, but we liked the story overall (so don't thinks we is slamming motb based on this initial brief reflection re:jnpcs.) gann womanized 'cause he had abandonment issues (*groan*) and dove were seeing world black and white just likes her eyes made things seem... as passionless as the god she had once been devoted to. yeah, the wall is a great injustice and you led a crusade to topple, but there were no convert's fire and passion from dove. disappointed. anything else from those two? red wizard's most compelling aspect were the whole Founder shtick, but she had little more personality than did kaji. she were just kinda... there. okku were kewl, but he didin't exactly grow or become more than he seemed. were a big and loyal talking bear... made a promise to help stop spirit eater curse and you had his devotion just so long as you continued to be seemingly fighting the hunger and searching for cure.

 

kreia, as flawed as she were, kicked the snot out of all of the motb jnpcs. kreia were complex and had depth. sure, am betting that somebody could give a pretty good one sentence distillation o' kreia, but such a synopsis would not have been able to describe her character accurately. you knew from start that there were more to kreia... one motivation to keeps playing kotor2 were to find out what exactly the "more" were. dove and gann? 20 minutes after we meet 'em we knows pretty much what made 'em tick... and the predictable discovery weren't worth the 20 minute wait.

 

now we does thinks that the gameplay aspect o' character interactions were handled well in motb. not only were social skills useful and character generation choices meaningful, the feat awards for continued dedication to jnpcs did keeps Gromnir interested in those jnpcs. that being said, our interest were pretty mercenary and practical: boost our influence and gets a new goodie. thankfully those rewards were not available w/o some considerable interaction, so even though we weren't a huge fan o' how the jnpcs were written, we admits that we were adequately encouraged to delve due in large part to the rewards that had direct gameplay effect. 1 conversation with the eyeless kotor2 freak whose dialogue were a Frankenstein amalgam of a thousand forgotten fortune cookie phrases, and we need never have to deal with her again... 'least not from a pure gameplay pragmatic pov. contrast with dove in motb. how long it take to get to devoted status and gets ultimate menagerie upgrade? more than a few gameplay hours. good reward for time/effort spent on conversations and a nice carrot for those who bother to boost social skills.

 

each o' the motb npcs had a neat gimmick. a good gimmick can go a long way. bio's greatest jnpc success came from gimmicks. bg1 minsc? had a couple o' catch phrases and a rodent. hk-47? 1-trick pony with the meat bag bit. maybe obsidian got wise and followed suit... discovered that the gimmick is more important than the character? dunno... hope that isn't the case.

 

didn't go the one-o'-many route, so got no feedback.

 

...

 

dunno. from all the positive stuff we heard from boardies hereabouts, we were expecting something impressive from the jnpcs... but we simply never saw anything unusual from 'em. sure, their gimmicks were not so standard and stock, but the characters themselves were... predictable.

 

somewhat disappointed with jnpcs... but not with the game. will spew forth more vitriol and praise later.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 3, 2007 by Gromnir

[Cantousent]

"were a big and loyal talking bear... "

 

For some reason, this made me laugh out loud. I guess that really does tell Okku's story. hahaha

[Azarkon]

kreia, as flawed as she were, kicked the snot out of all of the motb jnpcs. kreia were complex and had depth. sure, am betting that somebody could give a pretty good one sentence distillation o' kreia, but such a synopsis would not have been able to describe her character accurately. you knew from start that there were more to kreia... one motivation to keeps playing kotor2 were to find out what exactly the "more" were. dove and gann? 20 minutes after we meet 'em we knows pretty much what made 'em tick... and the predictable discovery weren't worth the 20 minute wait.

 

Curious, is anyone else in KOTOR 2 in the same category? Or is it just Kreia? I ask because Kreia was integral to the plot of KOTOR 2, whereas in MOTB all the companions are optional.

[Gromnir]

kreia, as flawed as she were, kicked the snot out of all of the motb jnpcs. kreia were complex and had depth. sure, am betting that somebody could give a pretty good one sentence distillation o' kreia, but such a synopsis would not have been able to describe her character accurately. you knew from start that there were more to kreia... one motivation to keeps playing kotor2 were to find out what exactly the "more" were. dove and gann? 20 minutes after we meet 'em we knows pretty much what made 'em tick... and the predictable discovery weren't worth the 20 minute wait.

 

Curious, is anyone else in KOTOR 2 in the same category? Or is it just Kreia? I ask because Kreia was integral to the plot of KOTOR 2, whereas in MOTB all the companions are optional.

 

multiple kotor 2 jnpcs is integral to the plot. that were one of the complaints we seen from folks at codex: why do i have to bring _____ with me? so why were kreia different? how 'bout some o' the ps:t jnpcs? heck, ravel were chrisA's bestest npc ever... and she weren't even a party npc.

 

integral to plot is an advantage, but is a cop out nevertheless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

Kaelyn was pretty damn involved in the story, if not "integral", so there's really no excuse. I do think that she had the most potential but ended up a little bit too contradictory and unclear, as if a smudged painting that is never really lit up properly at any point.

 

Other than that, I don't know. They weren't especially complicated or amazing NPCs but I liked them around - Okku, OoM, Gann, Safiya. If I had moments that irked me, that would be the fact that Safiya's character is too goody-good for a Red Wizard and this makes her a bit boring - and it should have been possible to work out some back-stories of One of Many's various facets. Why devour the Sleeper if you can't even get her story?

[Gromnir]

okku were integral to plot for first 1/3 of game. gann were if not integral, then highly integrated into plot o' the sunken city... which were a goodly portion o' game. dove were similarly woven into fabric of the post academy motb story. Founder/safiya IS integral... but sadly it were the safiya aspect that were 'least compelling.

 

no "excuse" for any of the jnpc's to be underdeveloped and predictable.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Xard]

I'm interested, who are the best "jnpc's" (I guess that mean joinable npc's?) then.

 

K2 had deeper companions than MotB, but MotB's companions easily beats everything from K1 ( minus Jolee Bindo ), JE, Fallouts (well, maybe not Dogmeat ) etc.

 

Of course, PS:T is in itws own league still.

 

Kaelyn definetly is in my favorite "jnpc"'s list. During my second playthrough I've stumbled to many dialogue branches (that fleshes her out more) I had not encountered during my first playthrough.

Edited November 4, 2007 by Xard

[Azarkon]

Did K2 have deeper companions than MoTB, though, or is it just Kreia? My impression of most of the other K2 companions was that they were pretty gimmicky and underdeveloped. That could've been the cut content, though.

 

At any case, what I'm curious about is why Kreia was such a better character relative to the rest of Obsidian's creations sans Torment. Was it because she was necessary to the plot and could be assumed to be in the player's party wherever he went? Was it because she doubled as the villain and could thus, like Irenicus, benefit from plot development? Or was she simply better conceived, written, and presented, so that we could potentially have a full party of characters just as interesting?

[Xard]

Hmh, only really underdeveloped character I can come up with was Disciple. Hell, even T3 got personality in K2

[Tigranes]

I just think Kreia was well written, actually, and 'hit the spot'. Now, I think if Kaelyn, for example, was as integral to the story as Kreia, then she could have had more impact. i.e. in MOTB, Kaelyin is a 'parallel / tangent' character to the main plot: she provides additional information and perspectives on the Wall of the Faithless and Akachi's Crusade. If Kaelyn was somehow neceessary for the Second Crusade, or wanted to use you or benefit from you somehow for her Crusade - which is the level of involvement Kreia has with you in K2 - then I think there could have been more from Kaelyn. As it is, she pretty much has nothing to do with the story come its eventual climax. Equally, Safiya is supposed to be crucial to the story, but ends up little more than a bystander and the big revelation about her identity only matters if she wants to declare luvluv. But all this doesn't go around the fact that, IMO, Kreia was a lot better and more ambitiously written than the MOTB characters.

[Xard]

Oh God now I remember why I rarely visit official forums.

 

People. Are. F*cking. Stupid.

 

OMGZ THIS GAEM GIVES NO TIPS WERE I CAN GET THE COMPANIONS AND WHY I CAN'T REST EVERYWHERE BAWWWWWW

[Cantousent]

Wow, they start you with one companion and just about lead you by the nose to the next one.

[Gorth]

Yeah, in the face of such adversity, the game should really have been M rated. Mature audiences only

 

I just started on Act II and I am having a blast so far. Playing a Spirit Shaman/Storm Lord I dissed Gann and kept Okku in my party. While not having the sheer size of BG2, it still boasts those lots of little detail that makes it a good experience so far. At the moment, I have decided to put the curse on the "back burner" so to speak, as I would like to play the game first without having to look over my shoulder for my innate octopus. That shouldn't be a problem though, as I suspect a lot replays in this one. Once I feel comfortable with the curse, I will probably play as a soul devouring anti-good something. I do suspect a bit of familiarity with the game is necessary before trying that path though.

 

Btw. is there a point in fighting the content of door no. 3 in shadow Mulsantir?

 

I got my butt handed to me repeatedly and decided that no reward was worth the number of reloads.

[Atreides]

Door 3's occupant has some cool electrical gloves. By the way, I spammed Gan's Crumble (sonic damage to artifacts) while t he others kept it busy.

 

The creature I have no idea how to take down is Malar's Perfect in the cave in Ashenwood. Safiya used Bigby's spell to grapple it which was cool, and I had two elder elementals pounding on it, hasted party casting pretty much everything, my char jabbing it with the Ice Hook and nothing took...

Edited November 6, 2007 by Atreides

[Azarkon]

I think I beat it with maximized IGMS. Yay for overpowered Bioware spells :D

 

Vampiric Feast can also kill it.

[Atreides]

What's IGMS?