Pop Posted August 25, 2007 Author Posted August 25, 2007 Also, the 3-word twist was pretty amazing. I'd like to see the RPG Codex would say about it, what with all their concern about not having choice in games and then having it sprung on them that their lack of choice was completely and totally intentional and integral to the plot of Bioshock. Pretty ingenious, really. Andrew Ryan's death sequence was one for the ages. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
Zero Posted August 25, 2007 Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) The twist caught me off guard... and it was a nice little critique of the FPS genre -in regards of how we are constantly in motion . And it was definitely needed considering how cliche the game seemed up to that point- with Ryan being the main evil and Apollo's family being killed (I'm curious who/what exactly was in that bathysphere). I'm not sure if you did this or not, but after you leave the Little Sister Hideout; after replacing the wheel to open the door. I accidently replayed the tape by Suchong on mind control (because you had to hold down A to turn the wheel); it was amazing moment climbing the ramp while hearing the little boy not want to kill the puppy. And I already heard what Tennebaum(sp?) and Fontaine had to say, so that recording went un-interrupted. The Boss fight was pretty easy. And the ending I saw was ok , not great... I saved all the Little Sisters so it was the "good" ending- not sure if there is a bad one. But I really wasn't expecting much from it, since I didn't think the story was all that great... the atmosphere and settings were.. but I didn't find the story particularly strong. That said it basically boils down to Suchong= Sicko Psychopath Ryan= Immoral Idealist and a Psychopath Fontaine= Manipulative Sociopath correct? or no? Also I really wish there were more chances to talk to the people of rapture and that the bosses weren't just mainly amped splicers. I believe the Ryan scene would have been a tad more effective if they had made him look more realistic... but I agree for the most part his death is a great sequence. To be honest I'm kinda sad we didn't also get to see more of the people we heard the tape recordings of. Especially the Australian fellow; even though we know exactly where he ended up(not just a basic idea like Diane McClintok,etc.); I was hoping for something a bit more since he seemed like the most moral of the bunch. Edited August 25, 2007 by Zero
Tale Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 Bioshock after game plot analysis: what I saw coming, didn't, and why Reveal hidden contents You are Andrew Ryan's son - Saw it coming. There's an audio recording in Neptune's Bounty that tells you how Rapture's security system is keyed to the genetic ballpark. Sisters or cousins could come in. Obviously you're related to someone. Later in the theatre/Cohen level (forget the name), you encounter a ghost and find another recording. Reveal hidden contents The ghost leads to the backroom of a night club. Outside the door you can overhear a girl arguing with Ryan. Ryan kills her. It's all ghost noise, of course. You find an audio recording where the girl reveals she conspired with Suchong and Fontaine to secretly have Ryan's child which was given to Fontaine. Reveal hidden contents Atlas is Fontaine - Saw it coming. Reveal hidden contents The war is attributed to him starting, but he acts so innocent. People and posters speak of him almost as if he's myth and not real. Ryan practically ignores his existence until the end. Which means that few have actually seen him. Fontaine plays too much of an important figure in Rapture's history to not be involved. And one man in particular accuses you of doing Fontaine's bidding while working for Atlas. Reveal hidden contents Mind control and "Would you kindly" - Did not see it coming. Don't know if I should have, but there are some clues. Plenty of recordings over mind control experiments. Reveal hidden contents But it's kind of easy to believe you're doing all of it of your own free will to look for a way out. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Azarkon Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 I thought the last twist you mentioned there was particularly cunning, as it plays off of the condition that we're all too used to in gaming. Reveal hidden contents I actually had someone mention - and was in agreement with him at the time - that it made no sense that you would just blindly follow Atlas's instructions given that you had no real grudge against Ryan and no way to know whether Atlas was really interested in getting you out (this became especially apparent after a particular point in the game). Turns out the developers thought so, too, and what I had brushed off as standard FPS railroading became one of the most clever twists put in games There are doors
Zero Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Just for clarification Reveal hidden contents Diane McClintock was the one in the submarine, that exploded supposedly with Atlas's family, correct? From the audiotapes she got injured in the Atlas revolts, and than remodeled by Steinman. Afterwards she fell in with Atlas in his group; and you can hear a tape of Fontaine talking about the guise and then you hear her voice.
Zero Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Azarkon said: I thought the last twist you mentioned there was particularly cunning, as it plays off of the condition that we're all too used to in gaming. Reveal hidden contents I actually had someone mention - and was in agreement with him at the time - that it made no sense that you would just blindly follow Atlas's instructions given that you had no real grudge against Ryan and no way to know whether Atlas was really interested in getting you out (this became especially apparent after a particular point in the game). Turns out the developers thought so, too, and what I had brushed off as standard FPS railroading became one of the most clever twists put in games Reveal hidden contents Atlas was pulling all these strings with the secuirity systems. I was expecting him to come down and help (in person) to put an end to Ryan, himself -when he didn't, something seemed seriously off. That added with the good looks and how he wanted you to harvest the little sister. I wasn't expecting him to be Fontaine. I thought Fontaine would show up at some point due to all the tapes. But I was beginning to think he might be the last boss. To tell you the truth I was thinking it was more along the lines that you got placed in scenario that made Ryan look like a bad guy; like in the midst of a battle (which you were), and Atlas was just feeding you lies. But Ryan really was still a bad guy, just not the main bad guy. I was thinking we were going to fight Atlas outside (for a change of pace) on the top of the tower/entrance of Rapture that we see at the intro. But that was before the Fontaine reveal.
Tale Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Zero said: Just for clarification Reveal hidden contents Diane McClintock was the one in the submarine, that exploded supposedly with Atlas's family, correct? From the audiotapes she got injured in the Atlas revolts, and than remodeled by Steinman. Afterwards she fell in with Atlas in his group; and you can hear a tape of Fontaine talking about the guise and then you hear her voice. I doubt Reveal hidden contents anyone was in the sub. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Zero Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Tale said: Zero said: Just for clarification Reveal hidden contents Diane McClintock was the one in the submarine, that exploded supposedly with Atlas's family, correct? From the audiotapes she got injured in the Atlas revolts, and than remodeled by Steinman. Afterwards she fell in with Atlas in his group; and you can hear a tape of Fontaine talking about the guise and then you hear her voice. I doubt Reveal hidden contents anyone was in the sub. In the beginning though Reveal hidden contents you can hear Atlas conversing with a woman. And he tells her "We have Company". Also Reveal hidden contents if no-one was in the sub, and Ryan didn't destroy it. Odds were he was going to. But say he didn't. Would Atlas have to come clean with the protagonist? I suspect it was McClintok and maybe a lone surviving child that were equally fooled by the Atlas persona (as all the rebels were). There is another tape where she says "She thought that Ryan was perfect, but now she has seen what he really is and that Atlas is actually the perfect man" suggesting a romance of sorts.
Bokishi Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I pretty much expected Reveal hidden contents Atlas to end up being the bad guy I mean I totally saw it coming Current 3DMark
Tale Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) Zero said: Tale said: Zero said: Just for clarification Reveal hidden contents Diane McClintock was the one in the submarine, that exploded supposedly with Atlas's family, correct? From the audiotapes she got injured in the Atlas revolts, and than remodeled by Steinman. Afterwards she fell in with Atlas in his group; and you can hear a tape of Fontaine talking about the guise and then you hear her voice. I doubt Reveal hidden contents anyone was in the sub. In the beginning though Reveal hidden contents you can hear Atlas conversing with a woman. And he tells her "We have Company". Also Reveal hidden contents if no-one was in the sub, and Ryan didn't destroy it. Odds were he was going to. But say he didn't. Would Atlas have to come clean with the protagonist? I suspect it was McClintok and maybe a lone surviving child that were equally fooled by the Atlas persona (as all the rebels were). There is another tape where she says "She thought that Ryan was perfect, but now she has seen what he really is and that Atlas is actually the perfect man" suggesting a romance of sorts. Considering the tricks he was playing Reveal hidden contents Atlas could have done it himself and blamed it on Reveal hidden contents Ryan. He never would have had to come clean. Reveal hidden contents Would you kindly? Edited August 28, 2007 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Zero Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) Tale said: Zero said: Tale said: Zero said: Just for clarification Reveal hidden contents Diane McClintock was the one in the submarine, that exploded supposedly with Atlas's family, correct? From the audiotapes she got injured in the Atlas revolts, and than remodeled by Steinman. Afterwards she fell in with Atlas in his group; and you can hear a tape of Fontaine talking about the guise and then you hear her voice. I doubt Reveal hidden contents anyone was in the sub. In the beginning though Reveal hidden contents you can hear Atlas conversing with a woman. And he tells her "We have Company". Also Reveal hidden contents if no-one was in the sub, and Ryan didn't destroy it. Odds were he was going to. But say he didn't. Would Atlas have to come clean with the protagonist? I suspect it was McClintok and maybe a lone surviving child that were equally fooled by the Atlas persona (as all the rebels were). There is another tape where she says "She thought that Ryan was perfect, but now she has seen what he really is and that Atlas is actually the perfect man" suggesting a romance of sorts. Considering the tricks he was playing Reveal hidden contents Atlas could have done it himself and blamed it on Reveal hidden contents Ryan. He never would have had to come clean. Reveal hidden contents Would you kindly? Yeah but there is the whole Reveal hidden contents Ryan transmitting a message to you and warning you not to press the button. Then telling you of the consequences for aiding a parasite(or something along those lines) afterwards. If you get the chance , replay the intro (as you're going up in the bathysphere, you can hear Atlas talk to a woman before he talks to you) And with the hangings in Apollo Square, Ryan doesn't seem to have any qualms with killing rebels. Which McClintock became. Bokishi said: I pretty much expected Reveal hidden contents Atlas to end up being the bad guy I mean I totally saw it coming But did you know it was Reveal hidden contents going to be Fontaine? The all perfect facade was suspicious and I thought I was going to end up fighting him, but I didn't think it was Fontaine.... Fontaine seemed too thuggish to pull it off.. to me at least. I really thought Fontaine was going end up as one of the splicer bosses toward the end, but not the main guy. Edited August 28, 2007 by Zero
Pop Posted August 28, 2007 Author Posted August 28, 2007 Reveal hidden contents The person Atlas speaks to at the beginning of the game is Johnny, the guy who gets gutted by the spider splicer at the very beginning. And since Diane McClintock's last diary was on a dead body, I assumed it was hers. Same with the bodies that had the last diaries of the conspirators against Ryan in Hephaestus. A shame, too. McDonough (sp?) was my favorite character. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
Musopticon? Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Right, I saw a certain thing about bathysphere biocoding, counted two plus two and decided to leave this thread. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. Expand So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Morgoth Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I think all 3 endings (2, actually) pretty much leave out the possibility to play the same character in a sequal again. And the Endboss was some homage to Freedom Force, or what? Anyway, it's the best FPS I've played since Deus Ex, and for that I'm very grateful. Rain makes everything better.
Tale Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 3? "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Morgoth Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Tale said: 3? Yeah, just look around in the folders. If you harvest all LS, you get the "bad" ending. If you mix harvest/rescue, you get the same bad ending, but with a slightly different audio layer. If you rescue all LS, you get the "good" ending. Rain makes everything better.
Tale Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Ahh, different audio. Wery interesting. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Morgoth Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 It's cool that Frau Tennenbaum is voiced by the same actor as Delacroix from SS2. I recognized her immediately. Ryan sounds familiar too, maybe the same guy who did Korenchkin? Does anyone have a list of all Bioshock Voice actors? Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 So... how is the role-playing to everyone for this game? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Tale Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 There is no roleplaying. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Volourn Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 Hmph.. Then why was there bragging about how awesome this game would be in shaming actual RPG companies? I remember BIOshock fans laughing at how BIOshock would have more actual rping than BIO, Betehsda, and Obsidian games combined? L0LLERZ Seriosuly, the game still sounds like it cna be fun. The atmosphere looks cool anyways. Are the controls reasonable? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Morgoth Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 Volourn said: Hmph.. Then why was there bragging about how awesome this game would be in shaming actual RPG companies? I remember BIOshock fans laughing at how BIOshock would have more actual rping than BIO, Betehsda, and Obsidian games combined? L0LLERZ Seriosuly, the game still sounds like it cna be fun. The atmosphere looks cool anyways. Are the controls reasonable? Huh? Who said that? Even the developers always claimed it's a FPS. Anyways, it got depth, an incredibly well realized world and story, interesting gameplay, and still tons of possibilities to improve your character via tonics and plasmids, and is definitely worth picking up, even if the tools used to tell the story is completely unlike Bioware games. It's simlilarly strucured to System Shock 2, although the core experience is improved, and some things are worse (like the lack of an inventory). Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 "Huh? Who said that? Even the developers always claimed it's a FPS." Pletny of people. And, as for the devs, yeah I know BS was always a FPS; but I also remember bragging about its 'RPG elements'. No biggy anyways. I'm sure, and can see it has other good qualities. I'll likely pick it up next week along with Madden 2008, and reservation of my NWN2:MOB copy. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Morgoth Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 You won't regret it, this game is truly a masterpiece, and a milestone in the FPS genre! Rain makes everything better.
Pop Posted August 30, 2007 Author Posted August 30, 2007 There's only one real choice in the game as well. As soon as you harvest your first little sister you close yourself off from the "good" ending. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
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