neo-fascism

[Walsingham]

I'm always surprised by the level of experience and reading on the forum, and it occurred to me that there might be people here with knowledge of neo-fascists. That is white supremacists typically. I don't know much about these people beyond their associates in the militias of the USA.

 

Ring any bells?

[Musopticon?]

You might like to see them in their native web enviroment:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

 

They even had a gaming forum last time I looked. And one for gardening.

 

I try to avoid reading the threads nowadays, since the stupidity there knows no bounds and I kept having to restrain myself from registering and ending up in a huge unwinnable flahttp://forums.obsidianent.com/style_images/Obsidian/folder_editor_images/rte-emo-button.png

Emoticonsmefest.

 

Edit:Eh, I failed yet again and just had to read the "discussion boards", if not for anything else, then for the crazy supremacist who spends fifteen pages to explain why Semitic people are genetically inferior. It's hard to understand how a place that looks and works so professionally can be so bigoted and racist. It's just mindnumbing, just absurd how such a group of lowlifes can lead this kind of community without succumbing to their collective childhood traumas. It's obvious that a lot of them don't really even know what they are doing. Just hanging on to something, like a skinhead gang that keeps together simply because there seems to be nothing else to keep their communal psyche together. Heh, probably the funniest side to the whole site are the ones that want to keep the "American race" pure. Man, I too want to keep my Swedish-Russian-Dutch-Karelian roots pure! I think that my Yankee brothers should stand for their Italian-Irish-Dutch-German-Spanish rights! For Kansas!

Edited July 11, 2007 by Musopticon?

[Laozi]

There used to always be alot of skinheads at the big headliner punk shows I attended growing up. While alot of these guys were pretty militant, you could tell others were just lost sheep. Also there were alot of S.H.A.R.P.s to counterbalance them, and those guys seemed more inclined to kick alot of ass.

 

As far as positions of authority go, I have met my fair share who are involved in either law enforcement or the military.

[Sand]

I never have gotten how a person or group of people can actually think that they are the pinnacle of humanity while preaching hate and discord. Human is human. No better and no worse.

[Calax]

they have a whole subculture, everything from making their own video games (FPS's where you fight the "good fight" to stop the "inferior species" from taking over the world) to music, heck I think they even have their own movie or two. Most of the leaders are highly intelligent people who have a tendancy to try and grab a recruit when they are young (also they try to grab vulnerable kids). They also know how to play a crowd.

 

My information is a mish mosh of History channel stuff and a little law and order with history class tossed in.

[Hurlshort]

My information is a mish mosh of History channel stuff and a little law and order with history class tossed in.

 

Huh...that sounds like my knowledge base as well.

[samm]

Why looking in sub-culture? Neo-fascists are active in nowadays governments. There are parties and organizations in France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Italy with considerable influence (see Front National, NPD, AUNS, SVP, Lega dei Ticinesi,

[Calax]

I thought he was specifically asking about the US

[Krookie]

I was watching something about this on the History Channel once. And their leader was speaking to the camera, explaining why they were so much better then every other race. And as the camera pans out, you see that he's sitting in a trailer park, beer cans on the floor, his jeans have 23 holes in them, and he's talking about them being successful.

 

The house they lived in was no bigger then the shed in my backyard, with some crappy couch and some 1960s TV. It's sad, cause they showed one of the guy's kid, and he was probably around three or four, and they were teaching him things like "Who are the bad people?" and of course he'd answer with that word for black people. Then there was my favorite one..."Where does Adolf Hitler live?" and the kid goes "My heart".

[samm]

I thought he was specifically asking about the US

That would surprise me, as he is British for all I know...

I probably misunderstood the question though.

 

[edit]

The subtitle of this thread: "in western countries" can not only mean "in the US"

[/edit]

Edited July 11, 2007 by samm

[Pidesco]

In Portugal we have PNR, the National Renewal Party.

 

Linky without much info.

[theslug]

You know Laozi skin heads first originated from like ska punk culture (skin head, straight jeans, suspenders) or something but over time people became more retarded and the style became associated with nazis and stuff like that. My friend used to be into it, and he'd always want to punch a bunch of people in the face for bastardizing everything. But I mean it doesn't matter, punk as a genre pretty much blows and well everyone hates ska.

[Nick_i_am]

The BNP (and it's scottish counterpart, the SNP) seems to cover most of the UKs organised racism.

[samm]

You know Laozi skin heads first originated from like ska punk culture (skin head, straight jeans, suspenders) or something but over time people became more retarded and the style became associated with nazis and stuff like that.

known.

But I mean it doesn't matter, punk as a genre pretty much blows and well everyone hates ska.

no.

[Azarkon]

If by "neo-fascists" you mean extreme neo-nazis who treat white supremacy as some kind of cult, who go around terrorizing the neighborhood, wearing funny hoods, and enacting occult ceremonies, you'll only find them on the fringes of society. They have few sympathizers, relatively speaking, and can only be considered a weird sub-culture, not unlike alien worshippers and satanists.

 

If, however, by "neo-fascists" you mean people who believe in the superiority of the West and its right to dominate the world, who reckons that Western civilization is the only one worth having, who denounces liberals as traitors and ridicules multi-culturalism, who thinks immigration from Mexico will dilute US nationhood and its IQ pool, who claims that all other cultures and civilizations are either decadent, despotic, or both, who recalls with nostalgia the days of European Empire, and who even to this day see international politics as a reflection of the "white man's burden" - then look no further than the collectivist trend that is currently in the process of transforming the political mainstream. You can find such people on almost all boards dedicated to politics, the military, and/or the neo-conservative view - this one included.

[Laozi]

You know Laozi skin heads first originated from like ska punk culture (skin head, straight jeans, suspenders) or something but over time people became more retarded and the style became associated with nazis and stuff like that. My friend used to be into it, and he'd always want to punch a bunch of people in the face for bastardizing everything. But I mean it doesn't matter, punk as a genre pretty much blows and well everyone hates ska.

 

 

I think that is what those people became, but originally they just showed up in the scene because it was pretty unassuming. I remember on the East Coast most skinheads, neo-fascist had to lay low because typically they would get the **** kicked out of them. But in California where things are more low key they'd show up everywhere. I remember I was in LA and at a Naked Aggression show and a group of 10-15 skinheads showed up. They all looked like the big nazi from that movie Higher Learning. They went around the "circle" and tried to take anyones head off that they could. The lead singer of the opening band, Straight-Faced, had the mike grabbed from him and one of them said something derrogatory about blacks. He then stopped the show and told those guys to **** off. Later we actually played with them in Mesa, Arizona and even though he was a pretty huge guy, he told me he was scared that they were going to kick his ass after the show. He said that he basically didn't understand why the "scene" didn't band together and get rid of them like in other places. Just so everyone knows, apparently those skinheads had the bad idea of going to a MotherEarth concert where they were beaten bloody and a few had to be hauled away on stretchers. Goes to show, don't mess with the straightedgers, no drugs and no sex makes for a particuliarly violent group.

[Guard Dog]

There is a pretty good movie on this subject: American history X. It portayed the skin heads as thugs and followers with a few truly evil types with brains to lead them. The movie paints an ugly picture of an ugly concept. But it is worth watching.

 

I think it is a little inaccurate to link the "militia movement" in the US during the 90's with neo-nazis/facists. To begin with, the milita thing was started as a response (over reaction actually) to increasing gun control attempts by the federal government in the early to mid 90s. The news media hyped it up to be bigger than it really was by blaming it for unrelated events such as Ruby Ridge and Oklahoma City. It really faded out by the late 90's. There are still some groups around but most are of the Survivalist/Free Stater ilk. Don't get me wrong, by and large these are not nice people and there is probably plenty of racisim to be found there. But it would not be accurate to compare them to neo-nazis.

 

The neo-nazi/facist subculture never really caught on in any kind of big way in the states. I think the Ku Klux Klan cornered the market on racisim and hate here. Now there is a group with a long and nasty history.

[Azarkon]

Yup, and it's probably inaccurate to consider the Klan neo-nazis, since they came before the nazis did.

 

EDIT: I feel the Wikipedia article on the KKK is pretty good, so be sure to read that if you're interested in this aspect of US fringe culture. Of interest is the following quote:

 

Although often still discussed in contemporary American politics as representing the quintessential "fringe" end of the far-right spectrum, today the group only exists in the form of isolated, scattered groups with a total membership numbering no more than a few thousand.[64] In a 2002 report on "Extremism in America", the Jewish Anti-Defamation League wrote "Today, there is no such thing as the Ku Klux Klan. Fragmentation, decentralization and decline have continued unabated." However, they also noted that the "need for justification runs deep in the disaffected and is unlikely to disappear, regardless of how low the Klan's fortunes eventually sink."[65] Since late 2006 the Anti-Defamation League has revised its assessment of the Ku Klux Klan, claiming that "The Ku Klux Klan, which just a few years ago seemed static or even moribund [...], has experienced a surprising and troubling resurgence due to the successful exploitation of hot-button issues including immigration, gay marriage and urban crime".[66]

Edited July 11, 2007 by Azarkon

[Meshugger]

Fascism, in Mussolini-style, means that the power of the state and the corporate-world are merged into one. Class-systems and old aristocratic societies will continue to exist, making fascism a form of anti-communism.

 

Here's a better definition found at Wikipedia:

 

Semiotician Umberto Eco attempts to identify the characteristics of proto-fascism as the cult of tradition, rejection of modernism, cult of action for action's sake, life is lived for struggle, fear of difference, rejection of disagreement, contempt for the weak, cult of masculinity and machismo, qualitative populism, appeal to a frustrated majority, obsession with a plot, illicitly wealthy enemies, education to become a hero, and speaking Newspeak, in his popular essay Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt.[16] More recently, an emphasis has been placed upon the aspect of populist fascist rhetoric that argues for a "re-birth" of a conflated nation and ethnic people.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Meshugger

[Walsingham]

Azarkon, I make a definite distinction between right wing politics, and people who teach their kids that Adolph HItler lives in their heart. Incidentally I read that and thought "Aaaw... isn't that cute... HEY! Waitaminute!"

 

GD I think you're being disingenuous about the militias. While they often talk about gun control, my experience with militia members seemed to indicate they were worried about the Federal government because of things like foreigners and homosexuals. There was also the fascist emphasis on masculinity for its own sake, and the drinking of lager .

 

Laozi you make an interesting point about collective action. I'm not going to argue we should go about lynching anybody under any circumstances, but there's a definite tendency to look the other way. I used to live in a fairly well to do area and noticed some kids arsing about with harassing asian stores and nearly walked into a fat kid making a Nazi salute at some black people. I was torn between an instant desire to punch him, and a realisation that he was a total fool and in some ways didn't deserve to get punched (he was also a kid, obviously).

 

Anyway, as well as wanting to be better educated in general it did occur to me that it may be only a matter of time before we see a resurgence in violence from this quarter. Perceived successes of Al Qaeda have made other extremist groups more violent, for example 'animal rights' people.

[Azarkon]

Azarkon, I make a definite distinction between right wing politics, and people who teach their kids that Adolph HItler lives in their heart.

 

Of course, so do I There is definitely a difference between a neo-nazi cult and what could be considered neo-fascist politics. The former is just a group of criminals venting their misguided anger at society, and will never be taken seriously by anybody. The latter... Well, let's just say that history would have been alot more pleasant to read if Hitler was simply the card-holding member of a German subculture, as opposed to Fuhrer of the Deutsche Reich.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Azarkon

[Kaftan Barlast]

Why do you Brits call Neo-nazis "neo-fascists"? It's not like they run around with mussolini on their tshirts.

 

 

Unfortunantly, we have more than our fair share of neo-nazis in Sweden. And I can say from personal experience that Ive never seen such a bunch of useless human garbage. Neonazis are usually dumb, ignorant, ugly and angry about it, and the nazi movement will give them both a way to vent their anger and a newfound confidence by the notion that they are superior just by being white. Its the same way of recruiting from the bottom layer of society as these creepy religious cults that prey on vulnerable people.

 

 

And they're not even consistent, we were out and about when we were jumped by a gang of neo-nazis that were going to beat us up because we were communists or some such.. and I notice theres an arab and a latino among them. I pointed this out to them whereupon they became a bit annoyed and proclaimed that all immigrants should go home of course, but these two guys were ok. Then it got kind of awkward and we went our separate ways without a fight.

[Guest The Architect]

I can

Edited July 12, 2007 by The Architect

[Hiro Protagonist]

they have a whole subculture, everything from making their own video games (FPS's where you fight the "good fight" to stop the "inferior species" from taking over the world) to music, heck I think they even have their own movie or two. Most of the leaders are highly intelligent people who have a tendancy to try and grab a recruit when they are young (also they try to grab vulnerable kids). They also know how to play a crowd.

 

My information is a mish mosh of History channel stuff and a little law and order with history class tossed in.

 

You know, for a second I was thinking you were describing christian fundamentalists.

[Gorgon]

Every year the Nazis band together for the Rudolph Hess march, I think he was the rather slow witted right hand of Hitler, and every year the extreme left wingers show up to throw bricks at them. It's a blast to watch, unless it's were you live.