KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion, Part 23

[WKlingbeil]

I think we've gone as far into the subject as we can.

 

Indeed, at this point, I believe we need an update of any sort in order to keep interest in this game up. There is most definitely an apex in which a game hits its highest for intrigue from fans, and I believe K3 is beginning to pass that, and people are losing interest. All they have to do is make an announcement, not some vague reference, just saying whether it is or is not, or even will or will not be in production. I don't understand why LA thinks they have to keep silence for so long on their projects. They have such an excellent title in KotOR, possibly another GOTY if they put thought and time into it, yet here they are, releasing games that have already been released (i.e. Lego Star Wars Trilogy). I mean, sure, LSW was fun, but second versions of both of the games? This is holding LA back heavily. And then games like Fracture? and Indiana Jones.... And what's that? LEGO INDIANA JONES? LA seems to think that 5 year old children run the gaming market, but last I checked, Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen's Fashiontastic Adventure sold 5 copies? Let's get back to making real games, not just cheap tricks..... just like yo momma George, just like yo momma.

[Dark Wastl]

Uh, did you somehow miss Force Unleashed?

 

They have one big title they are concentrating on, with lots of new inventions. Why would they announce another one, if that game would just take away the spotlight from their main project?

 

Right now, LucasArts has zero reason to announce KOTOR III. They have a big Star Wars title, plus two major tie-ins for the new Indiana Jones movie. LucasArts isn't EA, they don't bring out 20 games per year. This is a different LucasArts, they don't develope as many games as in the past anymore, and they concentrate on one big SW-title at a time.

[Darth Mortis]

Nicely put, I do think LA is holding off for what they consider to be a good reason. All I can think of is that;

 

1; They are waiting on the new consoles to be out for a while, in part so any developer has a chance to see what those platforms can really do but also to see which of the consoles it would be worth developing the game for. LA *might* be considering entering into an arrangment with one of the consoles so that K3 is released only on that format (and PC unless the entire LA senior managment are totally removed from reality), in which case they might want to see which console is likely to be the best selling.

 

2; They are waiting to release the game at a time when they believe interest in SW will be high, or higher than it is at the moment. Since there will be SW TV series on the small screen in a year or two it could be they intend to release K3 around that time, it would act as 'free' advertising and could help sales-either for the show or for the game. Of course if this is the intention it is yet another reason to line the entire LA marketing department up against a wall and shoot them.

 

3; They have no intention of ever making K3, or no intention of making it in the forseeable future. If LA has decided not to go ahead with K3 they might think that saying so could lead to a backlash and a general drop in sales. Consider that everything LA has said about K3 means....nothing what-so-ever. What they have said is that they have not forgotten about the KOTOR series, which could mean nothing more than its on a list of projects that will be started sometime between next year and the second coming. Unless they are totally stupid both the PR and Marketing people at LA would probably point out that there is a fair amount of interest in K3, which leads many fans to keep an eye on any and all news coming from LA, which in turn means that those people can't help but notice other games that are being developed. In effect its free advertising with the added bonus that no one at LA has to do anything to get it. If they came out and said there would be no K3 they would lose this. Of course, as has been noted, interest isn't going to remain high forever and many people who are (or were) interested in K3 will start to drift away. They are playing a dangerous game in a way, since if fans start to feel that LA is fobbing them off or misleading them they might well turn away from LA for good.

 

4; K3 is already being developed, and a release date has been set but LA has decided not to reveal this until the game is sure to be out. Considering the backlash that LA got from the premature release of K2, and the host of bugs and cut content that resulted, it is possible that they just don't want to back themselves into a corner by setting a release date to early. Once a statement as to when a game will be out is made it can be very hard to change it-and if, as LA is sure to do, you've spent a large chunk of cash advertising the release date it can prove expensive. LA might be keeping the whole development under wraps for the time being so they can release the game when its ready-assuming of course that they learnt from the mistakes they made with K2. It could also be the case that the inital development was started then ran into problems, which screwed up the timetable.

 

They could also be keeping quiet for other reasons, such as intending to try and catch potential rivals off guard by announcing and releasing the game very quickly-to quickly for anyone to think about bringing other major games out at the same time. If this is the case them it would only be logical to assume that K3 would be released during a quiet period for new games, possibly after Christmas and new year. If LA has some reason to suspect that K3 might not fair to well against some of the other games that are being developed they might well want to do everything they can to assure there is not going to be a great deal of competition when K3 is released.

 

In any case LA must be aware that many games players will be wary of K3 as it is, and having to set the release date back might be seen as the game having serious problems and could make people even more wary of having anything to do with the game. Even if they don't have any problems with development you could bet good money that they will come under fire no matter how long they gives themselves to make K3. To long and they will be accused of having a game so full of bugs its taking ages to fix them, to short and they will be accused of a rush job.

 

5; As has been noted above LA might not want to take any attention away from the titles that they are releasing in the near future. If LA has reason to suspect that there is a huge amount of interest in K3 they might be of the opinion that saying anything about the game at this time would just mean people would forget about what ever they intend to bring out next, or that people might not buy the latest game because they are saving up to buy K3.

Edited August 26, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Sturm]

Gee you guys certainly have sucky hope.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I can only hope it's already in development, but in total secret.

 

Or it might just be they can't find a company to make it, since maybe Obsidian just doesn't want to make it. We know Bioware isn't doing it, though, so too bad.

[Darth Mortis]

I can only hope it's already in development, but in total secret.

 

Or it might just be they can't find a company to make it, since maybe Obsidian just doesn't want to make it. We know Bioware isn't doing it, though, so too bad.

 

I imagine that LA wouldn't have to many problems finding someone to make K3 for them. Some of the larger developers might not be interested, but smaller (and newer) companies would jump at the chance to do a SW game-they'd have assured sales with the potential for further projects which could make a new developers reputation and assure that company stays around for a few years at least. Failing all that LA might decided/have decided to make K3 inhouse (I'm not sure if they have the ability to do that I'll admit).

 

I should have added to this list I gave before with;

 

6; LA intends to develop K3, but has decided that the current game engine needs changing. This would require that they either licence a games engine from a third party-which could prove difficult, expensive and there might not be anything suitable out there thats avalible at the moment. The other option of making their own games engine is there, but would drastically increase the time needed to develop the game.

 

If the first option is chosen then LA might have to wait for a games engine to become avalible-whoever developed that engine would probably force LA to wait until whatever game the engine was origanly developed for is released.

 

If they go for option two then not only do they have to write and test the engine for all potential platforms, but they would also need to make sure that the engine could be used on other games as well so as to get some of their money back. All of this would take quite some time, and would explain why LA isn't saying anything about K3 as they might have no real idea how long it would be before the engine was going to be avalible-or worse they might have started on this and realised that the engine wasn't going to be good enough and had to look around for another engine.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

It's no secret the engine needs a massive improvement, considering the huge amount of lag.

[Xard]

Uhh, what engine? Kotor engine?

[Tale]

The entire ruleset needs an overhaul.

[WKlingbeil]

Uh, did you somehow miss Force Unleashed?

 

They have one big title they are concentrating on, with lots of new inventions. Why would they announce another one, if that game would just take away the spotlight from their main project?

 

Right now, LucasArts has zero reason to announce KOTOR III. They have a big Star Wars title, plus two major tie-ins for the new Indiana Jones movie. LucasArts isn't EA, they don't bring out 20 games per year. This is a different LucasArts, they don't develope as many games as in the past anymore, and they concentrate on one big SW-title at a time.

 

I have yet to see much from TFU either. All I've seen is a teaser trailer (what game doesn't look good from their first teaser), and heard a few background info, as that is all LA is willing to release. The Indiana Jones tie-ins are stupid, plain and simple. I really do not see any chance that an Indiana Jones game could develop into a good one, though I won't rule that possibility out. As for being like EA, no, they don't release 20 games per year, but would one more Star Wars project be 20? No, although I understand that they would not release KotOR before or soon after they release TFU. That said, I said nothing about releasing KotOR anywhere near TFU, only to hear that the game either is or is not in production, and whether it will be or not. I don't doubt that they won't announce it until after TFU, but them concentrating on TFU has absolutely nothing to do with another game. They have very little to do with KotOR, only that their license is needed in order to create it. TFU's storyline has personally been a partial/ heavy brainchild of George Lucas. He did nothing with KotOR, therefore KotOR being created at the same time as TFU would have no bearing on the outcome of either game. Again, I didn't say they were going to announce it, I just said that I wish they would. And again, the Indiana Jones tie-ins have no chance for purchasing by me..... Maybe the Lego Indi, but the regular one? Tsk, tsk, tsk...

[WKlingbeil]

I personally think that they are simply waiting for TFU to be released. I mean, a similar situation, not exactly of course, was the matter of Gran Turismo 4 when it was released. It was a completely stellar game, of course, but it could have been so much more if the developer had not bragged so much about how great Gran Turismo 5 would be. Of course, GT4 still sold tremendously, but it is a lesson to be learned, never look ahead of your current product. They know KotOR will sell, but they've never released a game like TFU, and their history on in-housers is not quite promising. Either way, whether it is in production, or is not in production, it probably will not be announced until after Spring of 2008, barring any postponements to TFU.

[Landiskan]

I think in KotOR III, I would like to see...

 

The player playing an assistant character rather than the 'main' character. Perhaps this would allow the player to have a choice in what sort of character they play. Whether they play as apprentice to the 'main' character (who probably has to be a Jedi, yanno, KotOR and all), or a a bounty hunter, smuggler or whatever. Personally I'd like to try playing a Bounty Hunter (you know, like Mira was supposed to be). But with the option of being a Jedi or not, as whim takes you.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Actually, I wouldn't mind starting as child, which would stop the devs from using the "We only train children, not adults like you, but you are an exception so we'll train you anyway" excuse.

[pantherus]

I may have already said this (my memory is shot these days) but I would just love for the main character to NOT be "the chosen one" of any sort, and instead just someone who is in the right place at the right time to do the job.

 

Definitely agree with WILL THE ALMIGHTY's comment of being a child to start with - that whole "we'll train you anyway, even though we NEVER do this..." line is really old...

[Darth Mortis]

I can see problems with the being a child thing. From the Prospective of LA they might not be all that happy having a child running around with a lightsabre and chopping people up-yes its been done in other games but it doesn't seem a direction LA would allow one of the SW games to go in. If they said yes to the child, but no to the idea of them being involved in fights then the first part of the game would be very dull.

 

From directing/play style it would be difficult to pace the game if you start as a child, assuming that the main char growns up this means the game takes place over several years and its kind of hard to keep the pace and tension going if the story obviously takes place over such a long period of time. Again, this has been done in games before but I'm not sure it would fit with the KOTOR style.

 

I can, however, see a way you could start with a child that would be in keeping with KOTOR-Start either before the Jedi Civil war, or during it. The Main character was a young Jedi on Dantooine-which would satisfy people who would like to see Dantooine. The 'Training' and start position takes place here, allowing the main character to fight without it seeming as if they are really getting involved in fighting (its training with a basic training sabre), the player to get instruction on how to play the game from the Jedi masters (which would allow the Jedi masters from K1&2 to return without explination). The training section ends with Malaks attack on Dantooine, during which the Main Character is trapped/escapes and is taken in by a local family. Over time the Man Character simply stops or forgets how to use the force until the Exile returned to Dantooine, (Which means that Kreia's remark about the Exile being the only Jedi left in K2 is correct, since the main character would never have been a Jedi knight and would have stopped using the force anyway) at which point they start to remember some of their training and they go off to practice-Ideally they go away to another world so they don't have to create two different Dantooines to handle if the Exile was DS or LS in K2. The main character is, at the start, looking for information on the Jedi to finish their training but also looking for the Exile-Either because they want to help them in thanks for freeing Dantooine (if Exile was LS) or because they want to track her down to get revenge (If Exile was DS), this could easilly be handled by someone asking the main Char why they want to find the Exile, or get information about them. In time of course the Char is going to find out about Revan as well (and during the conversation about Revan you can set if he was LS/DS).

 

This would allow you to start as a Jedi right from the start, it would allow the main character to have a history (and if the developers want to go that way one that affects starting skills or stats), and it would allow you to have a basic lightsabre from the start of the game-its the training sabre you had when you were training-which can be used but not upgraded and its not as powerful as a normal sabre-which gives you an excuse to find information on the Jedi so you can make one yourself. And it would end up tying K3 directly to the prior games without having to follow then to closely. Characters who were in K1&2 can easily make a re-appearance-either in person giving bits of information, or as recordings you come across, and have important roles (each giving clues as to what has happened and where you should go) without having to be in the party again. The Hawk, T3 and HK-47 could have been left on the academy on Telos for you to pick up later on (Figure that the Planet is still being rebuilt regardless of the Exiles alignment). The academy could provide you with further information on the jedi (and the knowledge needed to build a new lightsabre) as well as a few party members...maybe one of the Handmaidens sisters survived their fight and is still there for example...After that you get enough information to start following the Exile and Revan more directly-which becomes the second 'act' of the game.

[pantherus]

I can see problems with the being a child thing. From the Prospective of LA they might not be all that happy having a child running around with a lightsabre and chopping people up-yes its been done in other games but it doesn't seem a direction LA would allow one of the SW games to go in. If they said yes to the child, but no to the idea of them being involved in fights then the first part of the game would be very dull.

 

From directing/play style it would be difficult to pace the game if you start as a child, assuming that the main char growns up this means the game takes place over several years and its kind of hard to keep the pace and tension going if the story obviously takes place over such a long period of time. Again, this has been done in games before but I'm not sure it would fit with the KOTOR style.

 

I can, however, see a way you could start with a child that would be in keeping with KOTOR-Start either before the Jedi Civil war, or during it. The Main character was a young Jedi on Dantooine-which would satisfy people who would like to see Dantooine. The 'Training' and start position takes place here, allowing the main character to fight without it seeming as if they are really getting involved in fighting (its training with a basic training sabre), the player to get instruction on how to play the game from the Jedi masters (which would allow the Jedi masters from K1&2 to return without explination). The training section ends with Malaks attack on Dantooine, during which the Main Character is trapped/escapes and is taken in by a local family. Over time the Man Character simply stops or forgets how to use the force until the Exile returned to Dantooine, (Which means that Kreia's remark about the Exile being the only Jedi left in K2 is correct, since the main character would never have been a Jedi knight and would have stopped using the force anyway) at which point they start to remember some of their training and they go off to practice-Ideally they go away to another world so they don't have to create two different Dantooines to handle if the Exile was DS or LS in K2. The main character is, at the start, looking for information on the Jedi to finish their training but also looking for the Exile-Either because they want to help them in thanks for freeing Dantooine (if Exile was LS) or because they want to track her down to get revenge (If Exile was DS), this could easilly be handled by someone asking the main Char why they want to find the Exile, or get information about them. In time of course the Char is going to find out about Revan as well (and during the conversation about Revan you can set if he was LS/DS).

 

This would allow you to start as a Jedi right from the start, it would allow the main character to have a history (and if the developers want to go that way one that affects starting skills or stats), and it would allow you to have a basic lightsabre from the start of the game-its the training sabre you had when you were training-which can be used but not upgraded and its not as powerful as a normal sabre-which gives you an excuse to find information on the Jedi so you can make one yourself. And it would end up tying K3 directly to the prior games without having to follow then to closely. Characters who were in K1&2 can easily make a re-appearance-either in person giving bits of information, or as recordings you come across, and have important roles (each giving clues as to what has happened and where you should go) without having to be in the party again. The Hawk, T3 and HK-47 could have been left on the academy on Telos for you to pick up later on (Figure that the Planet is still being rebuilt regardless of the Exiles alignment). The academy could provide you with further information on the jedi (and the knowledge needed to build a new lightsabre) as well as a few party members...maybe one of the Handmaidens sisters survived their fight and is still there for example...After that you get enough information to start following the Exile and Revan more directly-which becomes the second 'act' of the game.

 

Love it - LA: MAKE THAT GAME!!!!!

[scargus]

I am Spanish and I do not understand much English.

The game will be of PC?

When ot is on sale?

Thanks.

[Tale]

I am Spanish and I do not understand much English.

The game will be of PC?

When ot is on sale?

Thanks.

Este juego no existe.

[Guest Accept]

I am Spanish and I do not understand much English.

The game will be of PC?

When ot is on sale?

Thanks.

Este juego no existe.

Tengo un perro negro y una movil gris.

 

On english so... yeah, the game doesn't even exist, even do we all probably want it to.

[Rosbjerg]

Tengo un perro negro y una movil gris.

 

You might wanna post about that here.

[LordHelios]

I have a possible idea about how K3 could be done:

 

(Maybe between 5-20 years after the events of K2) You're a young child, and you're with your parents on Korriban as they scour the planet for junk to sell. Your parents are eaten before your eyes by a pack of tukata, and some Jedi saves you. Later on he tells you he's found a holocron (could be used as a plot device, or maybe as something to unlock the more powerful abilities later in the game) that he can't unlock. Anyway, he recognizes your potential in the force, and starts to train you. after a bit, you meet this Sith that wants to get their hands on the holocron, and tries to befriend you towards that end. He also sees at least a small part of your potential, and offers a few pointers in the way of the force, and even preaches some Sith doctrine while he's at it. Eventually, the Sith tries to kill the Jedi for the holocron, and you've got to decide who you're going to join (which influences whether the holocron turns out to be a Jedi one or a Sith artifact). Yadda yadda yadda, and by searching for a means to unlock the holocron, you attract the attention of the Sith and the Jedi (one of whom you will get to join, and perhaps even become the leader of)(and you also get several opportunities to chance sides)(introduces some old characters here). At this point, it becomes about destroying the opposing ideologues, while looking for allies and other artifacts to increase your power. Maybe, towards the 3/4 of the game, you have to seek out the 'true Sith empire', for some reason or another. And you could even come back later and either destroy the newly stabilized Republic or whatever. Eh, in retrospect, I guess that would be a pretty long game, and probably filled with several boring bits.

 

 

I'm not as fond of the second part as I am of the first, but it's the best I could do in only 10 minutes free time. Either way, I'd prefer to choose early on whether I'd like to join the Jedi or the Sith, not have to wait halfway through the game to gain some measure of standing with the Sith.

[Omelette]

Romance is unessesary only wasting game time

I. Must. Have. Romances.

 

After what I got in K1 and K2, I'm sorry. That's not romance. That's just..yeah...

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

Este juego no existe.

S

Edited September 5, 2007 by Omelette

[Tale]

My espa

Edited September 5, 2007 by Tale

[Guest The Architect]

While we're on the subject, come

[Rosbjerg]