Diploma Denied for Cheering

[theslug]

Oh I thought that was directed at me, sorry I didn't mean a thing . Honestly though, high school gets the job done but there are just so many things that could be done to make a better learning experience for all. Floating standard is supposedly a big issue but what I have a problem with is standardized testing. I mean from what I've heard more and more time gets spent on teaching around the standardized tests making teachers change their curriculum. Plus I think the lack of meaningful reading in schools is a huge problem, in my experience people who generally read a lot of books aren't just more articulate but smarter. I don't know maybe hurlshot has something to say about it. I mean I have a ton of respect for teachers, amazing people who have a horrible job. Pay sucks, having to deal with a bunch of brats who don't even want to be there all day, it has got to suck.

[Cantousent]

Oh, I was really angry about it anyhow. Even my original post wasn't meant to cause genuine mayhem so much as have fun at Tigranes' expense.

 

I barely passed high school. I didn't attend a great many of my classes. I guess they have phone dialers now that automatically call if you don't go to school. I would go to some of my classes but I skipped so many I lost track of truancies. I guess, in that respect, I make a poor defender of public schools. Well, I did the same thing in private school which is one of the reasons I ended up in public school.

 

College is different. I did well in college because I wanted to do well. Maybe Tigranes has a point. Maybe meta has a point, and I've known him to bash teachers and teaching from time to time. Still, I just can't help but think that it's better to have good teachers and that students can get more out of school than the excision of their initiative.

[Hurlshort]

Oh I thought that was directed at me, sorry I didn't mean a thing . Honestly though, high school gets the job done but there are just so many things that could be done to make a better learning experience for all. Floating standard is supposedly a big issue but what I have a problem with is standardized testing. I mean from what I've heard more and more time gets spent on teaching around the standardized tests making teachers change their curriculum. Plus I think the lack of meaningful reading in schools is a huge problem, in my experience people who generally read a lot of books aren't just more articulate but smarter. I don't know maybe hurlshot has something to say about it. I mean I have a ton of respect for teachers, amazing people who have a horrible job. Pay sucks, having to deal with a bunch of brats who don't even want to be there all day, it has got to suck.

 

Dear Mr. theslug,

 

Earlier you said "Graduating high school just means that you deal with an extended amount of useless BS for 4 years." I agree with this. I said earlier that the academic requirement is rather low. The real test of high school is following something through to completion. It's a skill that will serve you well in real life. I change a lot of diapers right now. It's not a hard task, but it's a necessary one. I'm not going to just give up on it. It may seem to be a bit of a stretch, but finishing High School helped me develop the skill of changing diapers.

 

Seriously, I love teaching and wouldn't trade it for any job. But it's not for everyone and that's nice, because it means I've got job security.

 

Standardized testing is forced upon teachers by the government. We have no control over it, but if our students do badly we can face all sorts of consequences. I work in a great community with active parents. My wife works in a more difficult school. I think she's a better teacher, I know she works harder, yet her job is in constant jeopardy due to test scores. She's also a PE teacher, but if the students at her school don't pull up math scores, the government may come in and release every teacher from their jobs. It's a messy and ineffective system.

 

State standards that force teachers to address certain curriculum can actually be a positive. It ensures that students are covering the same content no matter which school they attend. There is a lot of leeway within the standards to introduce neat material. I teach the Renaissance in 7th grade, and I get to introduce students to Machiavelli and Dante. I shouldn't be trying to teach Karl Marx on top of that. It focuses teachers.

 

Standardized tests will eventually become less important in education, but right now it's the government's cure-all for our national academic woes. From what the 35-year veteran teachers say in the lunch room, this stuff is cyclical.

[Walsingham]

Have we left the debate on whooping during graduation?

[Tigranes]

Yeah, going through high school rips initiative from the middle class Bourgeoisie. Give me a break. I guess we should do away with school and just have an unending wellspring of ignorance. I'm not a teacher. I would not be one for the world. (again, at least) Nevertheless, I have the utmost respect for teachers.

 

Woah, what happened there? Well, its my fault for wording it so badly and ending that part so abruptly, Cant, so I apologise if I caused offence. Here, perhaps a better pass at what I mean;

 

Firstly, I have great respect for teachers as a whole. I'm only now finishing up my undergrad so I'm still a young student, but I can see that teachers do a very difficult job and they do have an impact on their students, which makes it all the more burdensome. I've tutored kids and even that was daunting. It was less of a bash on HS as an institution; more that HS years seem to be a point in time when, combined with other factors, I perceive a limited phenomenon where students get used to a "Enough To Pass" routine where they just do what they're told, and they do it only enough to pass (grudgingly), and don't ask themselves what they're doing or why they're doing it. I suppose laziness has a big role in that too, but it's mainly because I enjoy academic work so much when done right - you look at students who just do exactly what the project wants them to do, and end up with a castrated product with edges chopped off because they aren't interested at all in pursuing anything other than the pass mark, well, yeah. It seems to happen even with extracurricular things, or non-school things; because they're used to doing things as they're told, they have no initiative when they're doing something outside of school as well, lacking such things as organisational skills. Obviously this doesn't apply to all HS students - as I say, it's ano ffering of a limited phenomenon that from my personal, and thus distorted, vantage point seems quite extant.

 

edit: of course, it must be realised that a segment do use the environment of HS (which really has great supportive potential) to full advantage and do a lot of fun things. And hell, even if you dont "achieve", social training in itself is a good thing to learn.

 

I know she works harder, yet her job is in constant jeopardy due to test scores. She's also a PE teacher, but if the students at her school don't pull up math scores, the government may come in and release every teacher from their jobs. It's a messy and ineffective system.

 

So I gather she is a maths teacher as well? In theory, seems like it's a simple approach of "too low marks = somethign wrong with the teaching = flush staff." Hrm...

Edited June 11, 2007 by Tigranes

[Hurlshort]

I know she works harder, yet her job is in constant jeopardy due to test scores. She's also a PE teacher, but if the students at her school don't pull up math scores, the government may come in and release every teacher from their jobs. It's a messy and ineffective system.

 

So I gather she is a maths teacher as well? In theory, seems like it's a simple approach of "too low marks = somethign wrong with the teaching = flush staff." Hrm...

 

No, she's a PE teacher. That's what I'm trying to say, the system doesn't make any logical sense at all. Even getting rid of the math teachers is a bad idea overall, because all you are doing is hiring a new group that makes no gaurantees of being better.

 

Anyways, I've ranted and pulled this off topic enough

[metadigital]

just as easy now as it was then. actually, the level of complexity in much of the work i'm doing now is orders of magnitude more difficult in some respects, particularly the amount of work i have to put in.

I was referring to the learning process, rather than the content. I feel that teenagerhood messes with the brain to make simple tasks a lot more difficult.

[taks]

no real difference there for me, either. the biggest problem of then vs. now is the fact that now i'm focusing on areas that i already have a serious interest in, i.e. i'm not taking any classes that i don't want to take, or attempting to learn subjects that are of no interest to me. same for undergraduate college in which i had to take a bunch of stuff i didn't care about or didn't need.

Standardized testing is forced upon teachers by the government. We have no control over it, but if our students do badly we can face all sorts of consequences.

ultimately one of my problems with public schools. teachers end up being forced to teach students to pass the standardized test, not to learn the subject matter. as a result, the "bar" for the standardized test has to be set low enough that the aggregate performs well, which leaves the higher-end students lacking in skills they otherwise wouldn't have a problem learning.

 

taks

[thepixiesrock]

I graduated last thursday and this kid gave a speech about how students should stand up for themselves and their rights and stuff, it was basically a thinly veilled attack against the school. He still got his diploma.

[metadigital]

no real difference there for me, either. the biggest problem of then vs. now is the fact that now i'm focusing on areas that i already have a serious interest in, i.e. i'm not taking any classes that i don't want to take, or attempting to learn subjects that are of no interest to me. same for undergraduate college in which i had to take a bunch of stuff i didn't care about or didn't need.

That, and the fact that teenagers have all sorts of brain conniptions going on.

[Walsingham]

Indeed. What with all the girl chasing, fights with competitors, and general rebelliousness (none in my case) I'm amazed I had time for all that procrastination.

[metadigital]

I'm surprised I tied my shoes with all the nonsense in my head.

[Cantousent]

I graduated last thursday and this kid gave a speech about how students should stand up for themselves and their rights and stuff, it was basically a thinly veilled attack against the school. He still got his diploma.

 

Yeah, that "kid" was probably you giving your Valedictorian speech.

[Hurlshort]

I graduated last thursday and this kid gave a speech about how students should stand up for themselves and their rights and stuff, it was basically a thinly veilled attack against the school. He still got his diploma.

 

Yeah, that "kid" was probably you giving your Valedictorian speech.

 

I'm not quite sure how standing up for your rights = bashing the school. If you pay attention to your curriculum, it's all about changing the world. I read 1984 and Animal Farm because a teacher assigned it. Kids spend plenty of time oppressing themselves, educational institutions are tools you can use to break out of this, if you bother to try.

 

It's not a coincidence that social and cultural revolutions always begin in the universities.

[Walsingham]

Fighting the system can be good. My prep school falsified my test results so they could send me off to boarding school early. This because I was causing far too much trouble, organising the other pupils, asking awkward questions, and trying to build a robot in woodwork class.

 

That last may not have been terribly smart, though.

[metadigital]

They all laughed in wordwork ... but you showed them ..!

[taks]

was your robot the standard bending unit?

 

taks

[Walsingham]

was your robot the standard bending unit?

 

taks

 

My school was rather backward. Any rumour of a 'bending unit' would doubtless have resulted in the poor thing being persecuted for being gay. Which would have been unfortunate if I had also been able to get the flamethrowers working (also a rather bad plan in a wooden robot).

[metadigital]

A wooden Bender?

clickie!