Vampire: The Masquerade

[Kinokono]

Is anyone into Vampire The Masquerade? If so, can anyone point a newbie to the game in a direction where I can get more instruction about the game?

[Darque]

You can usually find rulebooks online in places like Ebay (if that's what you mean)

[213374U]

Unfortunately the books have been discontinued, so finding them in stores will be a tad difficult. I don't know what's the legal status on the IP, though, so I wouldn't know if it would be legit to acquire them via P2P. Perhaps Kafty can be of more help since he was in a similar situation when we ran our V:tM game.

[Dark_Raven]

If you have a used book/comic store in your area, you can give them a try.

[Paranoid Randroid]

If you have a used book/comic store in your area, you can give them a try.

 

I'm not into pen and paper gaming, but I was in a Half Price Books in Lexington, KY the other day and saw a huge amount of Vampire books. I didn't check on prices; HPB is usually very cheap.

[Walsingham]

Quite a good game, but don't fall for the hardcore element is my advice. Keep the whole thing in perspective, and for some good hints try the game Vampire the Masquerade, Bloodlines.

[Spider]

Unfortunately the books have been discontinued, so finding them in stores will be a tad difficult. I don't know what's the legal status on the IP, though, so I wouldn't know if it would be legit to acquire them via P2P. Perhaps Kafty can be of more help since he was in a similar situation when we ran our V:tM game.

 

Downloading them is definitely illegal. US Copyright lasts for something like 75 years. Unles, of course, White Wolf has released the old books ino the public domain, something I sincerely doubt. Especially since they're releasing books for Vampire: The Requiem. And even more so since they're selling them as eBooks at drivethrurpg.com. They're selling at half cover price and I think they have more or less everything that was ever released (I didn't check though, but there are planty of books.).

 

If it's physical books that is desired I'd guess Amazon and eBay are the best bets.

 

Edit: Also, for information about the setting itself maybe the WoD wiki could be useful.

http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness...x.php/Main_Page

Edited February 5, 2007 by Spider

[Kinokono]

Quite a good game, but don't fall for the hardcore element is my advice. Keep the whole thing in perspective, and for some good hints try the game Vampire the Masquerade, Bloodlines.

Lol, thats what got me into the whole game in the first place...awesome game =)

[Walsingham]

Quite a good game, but don't fall for the hardcore element is my advice. Keep the whole thing in perspective, and for some good hints try the game Vampire the Masquerade, Bloodlines.

Lol, thats what got me into the whole game in the first place...awesome game =)

 

Hah! Good stuff. For ideas you might also look into the old pulp detective novels. Red Harvest The Big Sleep etc. Just for darkness and corruption without too much goth.

[Kinokono]

What about those other games by White wolf, Like the Werewolf and Mummy games and what not...?

[Dark_Raven]

Never tried them.

[Oerwinde]

I bought a whole wack of the books when my regular gaming group was considering getting into it, then we had a bit of a falling out and I haven't RPed since. The books are still crazy interesting though. I love the whole universe.

[Spider]

What do you want to know? I've played the core games in the old WoD (since that seems to be what you're still focused on), but not the newer ones (Hunter, Mummy, Demon). A summary:

 

Werewolf: Violent. It is entirely possible to play without fighting, but the game is clearly geared towards combat. It also deals a lot with spirits and the spiritual world. Basically you play as guerilla fighters, fighting against large corporations for the environment. Sort of like a militant Greenpeace, only with fur. And large fangs. And claws.

 

Mage: Weird. On a conceptual level, Mage is pretty cool. Magic is dying and Mages must fight to get humankind to awaken before it's too late (unless you're playing the third edition where the ascension war has been lost and it's already too late, iirc). Opposed to this is the Technorcracy, technomages, that like the sleepers to stay sleeping. They are trying to keep the order of the world, and magic just causes trouble. Which it does in the shape of paradox, events and malignant spirits manifesting themselves if magic is used too overtly or frequently. The problem with mage is that spellcasting is just a mess (from a rules perspective). It's tricky for the players and a lot trickier for the Storyteller. It's also extremely powerful. The game easily places the highest on the powerscale of any of the games. By far.

 

Changeling: I don't have much experience with this game and what little I have was ruined by some players with too great a fondness for the prankster fae (imagine Malkavians on speed and you're close to getting the picture). At it's core it's the most depressing game. Mankind is no longer dreaming and this causes the fae to loose their powers on earth, even to die. Most fae have left earth for Arcadia, but left behind are the half-fae, the changelings. They can still feel how the lack of dreams is draining them, condemning them to a life of the mundane. Imagine if all of a sudden your world would just be devoid of all colors, all smell and all taste. This is what is happening to the Changelings, and what they are desperate to stop.

 

Wraith: This is my favorite game on a conceptual level, but we've found it almost impossible to play in the past (I'll get to why in a bit). It's also kinda depressing, you are dead after all. And I mean really dead, not faux dead like the vampires. Something or someone keeps you from letting go though, but given that you are a ghost your interactions with the physical world are limited. As a wraith you fear Oblivion beyond everything else, if you end up there no one will remember you even existed. You also have your shadow self to deal with, the voice in your head that tries to goad you towards your worst fears. And this is where the game becomes hard to play. The shadow is supposed to be voiced by another player. There are multiple ways of doing this, but none of them have worked very well for me. Basically, either the shadow is present too often or not enough. Too strong or not nearly strong enough. Having that voice in the back of your head is a fascinating experience, but if it's not done just right it detracts as much as it adds. The best solution is probably to have a separate Storyteller that only deals with the Shadows for a group of about three or four. That way it could possibly work.

 

Edit: Onee thing about the old books worth mentioning is that they were never really intended to be played in a cross-setting. The powerlevels are extremely fluctuating (where mages can beat up on anyone), but more than that the settings are contradicting eachother a lot. (Except Wraith and to a degree Changeling, although those aren't very compatible with any other game anyway). For instance, each of the games has this larger than life organisation that secretly rules the world (Camarilla, Technoracy, Pentex Corporation) and having three such distinct powerplayers just feels implausible. These are issues that have been fixed in the new WoD, so no matter what people may think of it, it is much more suitable for mixed parties.

Edited March 18, 2007 by Spider

[Musopticon?]

Thanks, Spider. That was really informative.

 

I was always interested in Mage, what with the paradox slashbacks and trying to bend creation to your will and ending up as a toad. Really, I'd still play a game if I could just find the books and a group. Which is probably a common problem.

[Kinokono]

Edit: Onee thing about the old books worth mentioning is that they were never really intended to be played in a cross-setting. The powerlevels are extremely fluctuating (where mages can beat up on anyone), but more than that the settings are contradicting eachother a lot. (Except Wraith and to a degree Changeling, although those aren't very compatible with any other game anyway). For instance, each of the games has this larger than life organisation that secretly rules the world (Camarilla, Technoracy, Pentex Corporation) and having three such distinct powerplayers just feels implausible. These are issues that have been fixed in the new WoD, so no matter what people may think of it, it is much more suitable for mixed parties.

wow...great description, I have researched morei into vampire: the requiem and I would also like to know more about the new WoD...would anyone happen to have a suggestion about which is the best or... "most fun" setting...and so even tho the settings dont cross paths with one another, u still use the WoD book for all of them, as well as the other WoD supplements?

[Spider]

With the new WoD, things are somewhat different. First off, you definitely need the WoD core book, since that contains all the rules. In fact, WoD core is playable all by itself (as a mortal in the WoD).

 

Second, the games are much more coherent (in lack of a better word). They are balanced with eachother and the glaring contradictions of the previous editions are gone. You can use as many, or as few, of the new settings as you like. And mixed groups are definitely possible.

 

The thing is, White Wolf has moved away from an overarching storyline for their games that mandates the world to be in a certain way. Instead they're now providing the foundation. Options instead of definite answers. For instance, in the book about the mysterious organisation VII (for Vampire) they provide three different, detailed, versions of the organization. Which one is true (if any) is totally up to the Storyteller. If this way of doing it is better or worse, I suppose is up to each individual. I know the people running our games feel very liberated by this approach.

 

As to which setting is the most fun, it depends on what you're after. In the new WoD, I've really only played mortals, although I've read up a lot on Mage and some on Vampire (and we've started to play a Vampire campaign, but haven't gotten very far). We've had a lot of fun as mortals, that's for sure. But I like what they've done both with Vampire and Mage. And the rest of my group have had a lot of fun with Werewolf, so I guess it's up to the individual group.

 

At the core, Vampire is about political intrigue and fighting the monster within you, Mage is about mystical exploration (and is still the most complex game, but has become much, much simpler) and Werewolf is still spiritual, but you also have to deal with the beast that you are (we're talking severe anger management issues here).

 

Promethean I haven't even looked at, so I can't say anything about that. I am, however, really looking forward to the coming re-release of Changeling. I have high hopes for that game.

[Maria Caliban]

Not to be rude, but why are we talking about the oWOD (Old World of Darkness)? Is there any specific reason you want to play the discontinued line? I'd understand if you'd been playing them for several years and wanted to continue doing so, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

I have the core book as well as Vampire: the Requiem, Mage: the Awakening, and Promethean: the Created. They're all great role-playing lines, and unlike the oWOD, you can easily find the books as well as a playing group.

Edited March 23, 2007 by Maria Caliban

[Maria Caliban]

Spider:

"Promethean I haven't even looked at, so I can't say anything about that. I am, however, really looking forward to the coming re-release of Changeling. I have high hopes for that game. "

 

I'm aquiver with anticipation for the new Changeling. It could easily become my favorite. I'm also hoping for a revamp of the Demon game.

 

Promethean both exceeded my expectations and disappointed me. They did as much as they could with the premises, and created creatures whose unlives are *miserable*. All human innately hate you, and will eventually try to kill you, and the environment will become more hellish the longer you stay in one location. For that reason alone, I would never play; unless the campaign was created so all the events took place in a month.

 

The Prometheans just seem to lack the mythical and folklore backing of vampires, werewolves, mages, fairies, demons, and ghosts. While what they had was compelling, it just wasn't enough to support an entire book.

[Musopticon?]

Not to be rude, but why are we talking about the oWOD (Old World of Darkness)? Is there any specific reason you want to play the discontinued line? I'd understand if you'd been playing them for several years and wanted to continue doing so, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Because it is possible to tap into the existing fluff? Maybe he just enjoys oWoD more. I do.

[Maria Caliban]

Because it is possible to tap into the existing fluff? Maybe he just enjoys oWoD more. I do.

 

Unless I've misread, the original poster has never played the original World of Darkness.

 

There are a goodly number of elements I preferred in the previous setting, but that's because I played it for about two years before they switched over.

 

I'm not certain what you're trying to communicate in your first sentence.

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, Spider mentions that he hasn't played oWoD, but I think anyone would find the large amount of established source material enticing. Of course, that's just me.

 

 

The world is more intricate, yet, since there's a lot of fluff. Therefore, a storyteller can just use existing stuff to base a game on. You do know what fluff is?

[Maria Caliban]

Something of little value?

[Spider]

What? I did? Either I wrote it wrong, or you read it wrong. I've played loads of oWoD. At least the core games. It's new WoD I don't have too much experience with (but I've played a fair amount of the core rules, and read enough on Vampire and Mage to have a decent grasp on them).

 

I'd personally recommend going with the new WoD, mainly because it leaves the issues up to interpretation in a larger degree. In oWoD the source material is typically heavily tied into the core story that it feels sort of mandatory. It's a lot harder to change details since the big picture always need to be thought of. And if we're talking Vampire, there is a lot of material out for Requiem by now as well. Certainly enough for any new Storyteller to get lost in.

 

But since the original poster mentioned that Bloodlines was the source of inspiration, I did a write up of oWoD. Because similar as they may be, a lot of things have changed. And someone who's really into how Bloodlines presented things may not be equally thrilled about Requiem. I know Darque (and possibly Dark Raven) has accused new WoD of being soulless, for instance.

[Maria Caliban]

Let me quote myself:

Unless I've misread, the original poster has never played the original World of Darkness.

[Spider]

No, but the original poster did mention Bloodlines being the reason for the inquiry. Just not in the first post.