KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion, Part 22

[Yodaman]

I agree, it means nothing, that HK is at some time on Mustafar. Well, I would like it very much to find him in III again. Maybe he could hunt your character for a while or you be in a situation, where multiple civilians ran around, paniced an then HK-47 comes, kills some people and do funny things. Any meetings with seen before People I would like very much, of course, they shouldnt just stand around anywhere. Carths involvement in TSL was very believable, as was Mandalores. @Bass Game Master: Content only for X-Box? Not fair, I think. Patch content both for 360 and PC.

@Pantherus: I agree with most of what you said. Area design should be very important. But please, I liked it to change the destiny of a whole planet and want to see that again, but even if I burn a complete world, I want quests to be completed. I mean, when I'm facing Darth Traya in TSL and my diary still reminds me of finding the husband of some refugee, I get angry.

[Darth Mortis]

Finally, I just had a random idea for a character - someone finds the destroyed remains of HK-47 (I know he's everyone's favourite character, but we can't have him AGAIN in the third game, neither can you have T3-M4 again)

 

T3 destroyed is doable, but HK-47 isn't due to the fact that he shows up on Mustafar during the height of the Galactic Empire...

SWG isn't movie canon nor EU canon.

 

Even if it was HK47 could have turned up there long after events seen in KOTOR 3, after all the Galactic Empire was 4000 years later. I don't think any explination was or is given as to how HK-47 ends up on Mustafar-or at least nothing that says he wasn't involved in events after K2.

 

I think that if you wanted to put money on which Characters are most likely to show up in K3 you'd be best betting on HK-47, T3 and Canderous. I have the strangest feeling that they will once again become Party members in K3.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Sturm]

Why Canderous? I'm guessing in KotOR1 he is late 50's and then in KotOR2 probably early 60's. Therefore depending whatever time KotOR3 is set in, he'll be an old man.

 

I do believe that the two droids, HK and T3 will be back in it, they are pretty much the R2-D2 and C3PO of KotOR. But pretty much everyone will have made their way on through in the galaxy, but if not in your party they should have mentions, or atleast able to revisit them on whatever planet, for example the Handmaiden being the master of some Jedi Academy, Atton owning some business on Nar Shadaa. That sort of stuff because Bastila and Carth were mentioned in K2 so they should continue that idea.

[Darth Mortis]

Why Canderous? I'm guessing in KotOR1 he is late 50's and then in KotOR2 probably early 60's. Therefore depending whatever time KotOR3 is set in, he'll be an old man.

 

 

Well, when Kriea and Canderous talk on Duxn Kriea does meantion that Revan gave Canderous his orders before vanishing-regardless of if Revan was LS or DS it should be noted. I can only assume that those orders involved reforming the Mandolorans, in which case it could be considered logical to assume that Revan wanted another military force/army within Republic space. Given the reputation of the Mandolorians as warriors, and Revans history with them, it would make sense if Revan picked the Mandolorians for this task. Assuming that K3 follows on from the story of K2 and no one forgets this little bit of trivia then it would be logical to assume the Mandolorians have a role to play in K3. If they do Canderous would be the logical choice for the voice/face of the Mandolorians, rather than bringing in a totally new character who would be doing the same job.

 

 

You are right about Canderous's age, but then we have no idea how long Mandolorians can live before old age kicks in. Canderous is a pure Mandolorian, and while they look human (and might be related to humans, if not just a sub-culture) they might be tougher and longer lived. Assuming they don't get themselves killed in battle anyway. Even if Canderous is an old man, maybe just living that long would gain him considerable respect and honor amongst other Mandolorians as it would imply that he has never been beaten in battle.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Canderous is extremly affected by age in K2. Why do you think you can't take off his armor? (aside fromt he fact it would reveal a "punch") Besides, he has so many implants, he probably needs them to stay healthy.

 

You'll notice he needs some kind of air tubes on his armor. He HAS to be affect by some kind of injury or wound, or age.

Edited May 7, 2007 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY

[Tale]

Canderous is extremly affected by age in K2. Why do you think you can't take off his armor? (aside fromt he fact it would reveal a "punch") Besides, he has so many implants, he probably needs them to stay healthy.

 

You'll notice he needs some kind of air tubes on his armor. He HAS to be affect by some kind of injury or wound, or age.

He can take off his armor, he just doesn't because the armor is cool. Nobody else in Star Wars takes off their armor except Jango.

[no i am not a geek]

Canderous is extremly affected by age in K2. Why do you think you can't take off his armor? (aside fromt he fact it would reveal a "punch") Besides, he has so many implants, he probably needs them to stay healthy.

 

You'll notice he needs some kind of air tubes on his armor. He HAS to be affect by some kind of injury or wound, or age.

maybe canderous will be too busy being mandalore.... maybe you will be able to call him with a squad to blow the crap out of something.... maybe he will be the enemy...

[pantherus]

Regarding Canderous: He doesn't take off his armour because it is a symbo of status and strength as MANDALORE'S armour. He would take it off to sleep and...stuff...but not in the waking hours. As a playable character in your squad? I don't think so. It would be hard to explain him traipsing around with yet another character, especially as he'd be getting older. It'd be cool to have another mandalorian soldier however; like a substitue canderous!

 

Regarding the canon nature of the games - they ARE canon to an extent. There are a lot of things in the game that could happen, but LA have basically given their definition on what the canon storyline is and the base character. For example, in the EU canon - Revan was a male who was redeemed to the light side, and the exile was a female, also on the light side (light side is typically the canon path...). so while there are innumerable permutations in the game in so far as party combinations and actions taken, there is a generic story path which LA have made canon. All this information was gleaned from the Star Wars Wiki - Wookiepedia.

 

Therefore - if K3 was to have major story elements (like HK being found destroyed as a default element), then they would need to find some way of ensuring that his showing up on Mustafar is still possible. Remember that the biggest draw card of these games was the Storyline, and what is a story without backstory and the EU that follows. That's one of the things I love most about these games, how their stories coincided with the other stories of the Star Wars Universe.

 

While I do agree that T3 and HK are "the R2-D2 and C3PO of the KOTOR games", it could be hard to continue to find stories and stuff for them to do that haven't already been done...but if they can - bring them on! I do love that little T3 guy

[Omelette]

While I do agree that T3 and HK are "the R2-D2 and C3PO of the KOTOR games", it could be hard to continue to find stories and stuff for them to do that haven't already been done...but if they can - bring them on! I do love that little T3 guy

I can't see them not finishing out the story without them. They're important to me. I just love HK. He made some of those boring quests rather delightful.

[pantherus]

While I do agree that T3 and HK are "the R2-D2 and C3PO of the KOTOR games", it could be hard to continue to find stories and stuff for them to do that haven't already been done...but if they can - bring them on! I do love that little T3 guy

I can't see them not finishing out the story without them. They're important to me. I just love HK. He made some of those boring quests rather delightful.

 

that's true - and while I'm not against them being in the game as character per se, I guess I'm warning against them being thrown in and not having much fresh material to work with - leaving that "incomplete" feeling with them again.

 

I really felt that K1 rounded out the characters well (what with their personal side-quests and stuff) and made a reason to bring each character around for a while, while K2 meant you could just leave the bulk of them lounging around on the hawk and you could chat to them each time you came back.

 

Couple more things I've randomly thought of ***possible spoilers for both games***

 

- The part in K1

where you are captured by the leviathon and you pick one of the party to rescue everyone

and in K2 when you

have to pick 2 party members to rescue you from G0-T0's yacht and also when you pick a party to go to Freedon Nadd's tomb on Duxn

- basically when the party members are given their own power. That HAS to be brought into K3 in some form - those parts (particular K1's usage) are some of my favourite parts of the games.

 

- Regarding the main character: while there is definitely a big positive in the main character being some legendary person who is followed by people and is so unique in their own right they HAVE to be the main character - I do rather like the idea of the main character being "just another person" who happens to make a few right choices and does particularly well in circumstances. RPG games predominantly set the PC as some unique person - classic examples are Baldur's Gate (1 and 2), Jade Empire, and of course KOTOR. And then there're the games where you control a bunch of "average joe's" who just happen to be in the right place at the right to change the world - classic examples being the Icewind Dale games, and the Krynn trilogy (Champions, Death Knights, and Dark Queen of Krynn) where you create an entire party to control and none of them are "the chosen one" or anything like that.

 

This is another possible debate - what do people think? Should the PC be a unique and special person who's integral to the universe and everyone know's them - "the chosen one" arch-type, or should it be someone who showed up at the right time, and have no unique destiny pointin them in the right direction - I rather like the latter more, makes it feel more realisitic in a strange way

[Tale]

There's still stuff to do with T3 and HK. We never did get to destroy the HK factory, y'know!

[pantherus]

There's still stuff to do with T3 and HK. We never did get to destroy the HK factory, y'know!

 

This is true - and they do have the best personalities of the whole cast! (except maybe Jolee...)

[Darth Mortis]

Should the PC be a unique and special person who's integral to the universe and everyone know's them - "the chosen one" arch-type, or should it be someone who showed up at the right time, and have no unique destiny pointin them in the right direction - I rather like the latter more, makes it feel more realisitic in a strange way

 

I like the idea, but given the way KOTOR works its unlikely that will be the case. Starwars has a load of destiny stuff releated to the force, so the Main Char is almost certain to be someone 'Special'. In fact I can't see how they could get around this in K3 even if they wanted to, at least not and stay true to the way the Starwars universe works.

 

On the other hand there is nothing to say that the main char has to be some wonderful/powerful leader of times long ago (well, the mandolorian wars anyway). I'd rather like the idea that the main char just being an 'average' Jedi and being thrown into the deep end. It would be fun to wonder around with everyone asking exactly who you are and what you think your doing until you can earn a reputation-rather than starting with one.

[Darth_Nihlus]

i would love to have a mandalorian soldier too. It could be Mandalores most trusted soldier (xarga, zuka?) Mandalore may be old but he still has a brilliant mind for planning battles, even if he cant be in them directly.

[pantherus]

Yeah - it would be great (especially from a party dynamics perspective) to have the tough-as-guts mandalorian there...wonder if he/she could be trained as a Jedi too...

 

@Darth Mortis - you're right about how Star Wars is always about the destiny and the like, just thought it would be a nice change of pace...definitaley like your thought on the person being questioned as to their position and rights - kind of a "who do you think you are?" thing...

[pantherus]

Ok lets get started off with the story line. After the game is over you pritty much cant do anyhting which is not cool!!! I want a kotor where you can still fight things when the game is over. Also Kotor 3 needs new droids like for instance one like r2 droids. And you should chose if you dont want to be a jedi and be like a gun man. And You need more dark robes my guy was a sith in kotor 2 and im walking around in a jedi suit. And a lastly an online mode for xbox live and pc. My ideas for online r u have a ranking system like you did in the game and you go in with that rank. The online battles should be sith vs jedi. And finally no more glitches like double lightsaber it makes the game unrealistic to have 35 lightsabers. Thank You please comment

 

Above is a quote by a user who started a new thread for KOTOR 3 - which was closed since this one was already here. However, I do want to respond to their suggestions, so doing so here

 

Having the game open-ended (i.e. you can continue playing after you've finished it) is a very different style of game to the current KOTOR games. In it's current form - the KOTOR game-type wouldn't work with that style - what would you do?? These games are all about quests - the monsters are a secondary annoyance and deterrant to you finishing the quests. Once you finish the main quest - you win...there is no need to carry on and run around and stuff. I see how you'd want to have that, and there are definate pluses to this style (like being able to use your recently aquired strengths/force powers/weapons/etc on other opponents; but unless they majorly change the playing style to be more like Morrowwind (only game of this style that comes to mind...) then it just won't work.

 

New Droids - there have been discussions on that - there seems to be an overwhelming support (everyone who responded here ) for keeping T3 and HK around. Curious that you specify an R2 unit - what is T3 but R2-D2 with a different body? Having a different type of droid here would be fun though - can you imagine a utility droid like T3 with HK-47's demeanor and personality (just with more beeps!)?...bring a smile to my face...

 

More freedom of choice of classes to take/advance is something I'd love. It would be hard to implement accurately, but would be a great part of it. Choosing Standard/Jedi classes mid-game is definately a plus for me. Playing a "gunman" as he put it could potentially work. Naturally the game would focus on you being a Jedi - but it's doable.

 

More dark robes is easily done - for the most part it would be a matter of opinion and preference for people. Naturally by dealing with the Jedi as a focus you're more likely to come in contact with Jedi robes rather than Sith robes, unless you can start getting more robes off corpses...

 

This just brought to thought the possibility of the storyline entirely changing - instead of subtley working for evil while pretending to follow the Jedi is all well in good - but imagine blatantly joining the Sith instead of the Jedi and working for them - taking on the Jedi up front!

 

With the online mode - this request would probably go hand-in-hand with the first comment regarding the open-ended style of play - it's not really feasible with the style of KOTOR. I have heard of a possible MMORPG in KOTOR's universe - so there's potential there for you

 

Keep the ideas coming people - the more the merrier, and hopefully Obsidian can keep an eye on what we say and note things down...?

[Tale]

hopefully Obsidian can keep an eye on what we say and note things down...?

For use in the Aliens RPG?

[pantherus]

hopefully Obsidian can keep an eye on what we say and note things down...?

For use in the Aliens RPG?

 

who knows?!

 

How often do corporations listen to customers anyway?

[Sturm]

Why Canderous? I'm guessing in KotOR1 he is late 50's and then in KotOR2 probably early 60's. Therefore depending whatever time KotOR3 is set in, he'll be an old man.

 

You are right about Canderous's age, but then we have no idea how long Mandolorians can live before old age kicks in. Canderous is a pure Mandolorian, and while they look human (and might be related to humans, if not just a sub-culture) they might be tougher and longer lived. Assuming they don't get themselves killed in battle anyway. Even if Canderous is an old man, maybe just living that long would gain him considerable respect and honor amongst other Mandolorians as it would imply that he has never been beaten in battle.

 

Well originally Mandalorians were a non-human looking race, before the Exar Kun wars I think and over time humans started fighting for them and there ended up being more humans then pure Mandalorians and they completely integrated into the Mandalorian race and from then on the humans took up the title Mandalorians and their traditions.

 

For whoever makes the main character in the next game would be in quite a predicament. For one thing the whole thing of a new 'prophet' as mentioned throughout Star Wars and having an above average force user like we've had in previous games would be a bit stupid having it again in KotOR3 because then we have 3 'above average force users' that will rise to the top and do something really important, and this would be rather cliche especially when it already been done twice. So I wouldnt mind play as someone (ie, a NPC from KotOR1 or 2) like Atton or Jolee, but then people would, I'm sure complain like "I dont want to go him" and with an already set character you cant really choose their attributes or start again from scratch like you have in the past 2 games, but it would be good if you could just add on to their character from their original default stats.

[Guest The Architect]

For whoever makes the main character in the next game would be in quite a predicament. For one thing the whole thing of a new 'prophet' as mentioned throughout Star Wars and having an above average force user like we've had in previous games would be a bit stupid having it again in KotOR3 because then we have 3 'above average force users' that will rise to the top and do something really important, and this would be rather cliche especially when it already been done twice. So I wouldnt mind play as someone (ie, a NPC from KotOR1 or 2) like Atton or Jolee, but then people would, I'm sure complain like "I dont want to go him" and with an already set character you cant really choose their attributes or start again from scratch like you have in the past 2 games, but it would be good if you could just add on to their character from their original default stats.

 

As you said before which I agree with, rambling at most times isn

Edited May 8, 2007 by The Architect

[Zaxx Kredda]

ok when making suggestions lets not forget the timeline of KOTOR, its some 3900 yrs BBY (before the battle of yavin) that would make many connections that have been suggested (for example the sith antagonist eventually passing his knowledge down to palpatine) erroneous, nice wishful thinking but in reality would probably only be in holochron or ghost form...

 

i like a lot of the suggestions i am reading, and i think one of the best was drawing from the original trilogy for a rough formula of what KOTOR3's purpose and direction would be (ie resolution, finality, victory, answering of questions, and tying up loose ends)

 

heres some ideas i have in my head to add to a lot fo the posts here

 

the players main character would not be the exile at all, instead they would be retracing the steps of the exile through a vast array of planets in the outer rim...

 

heres how:

 

a republic patrol encounters the Ebon Hawk floating lifelessly in a yet undisclosed location, the ship is for the most part intact, but it has suffered from elecromagnetic damage and the crew is missing (the exile had to abandon ship to continue their search for revan) due to the damages, the last record in the navcomputer is somewhat disjointed, but many of the places that were visited prior to the ship taking damage have been retrieved from the memory banks during a refitting of the craft, and this is where our main character draws from to locate the two missing heroes of the republic. since the sequence of the waypoints was not recovered, he/she must by trial and error go to each one of the planets that were recovered from the navcomputer and search for clues on each respective planet (in no particular order) once enough of these clues are assembled they will finally lead to both the exile and revan who have decided to collaborate and find the object of their pursuit...

 

why strictly the outer rim? the logic of this is due to the time spread between KOTOR1 &2 and Episodes 1 thru 6 the galaxy was still much unexplored during circa 3900 BBY, and by the time we get to Episode one many of the planets known to the current republic were not charted 3000 years before. it would also ease the decision making process in finding suitable worlds to explore and what names they would have.

 

those outer rim worlds would be inhabited by many species who were influenced heavily by the infinite empire during its time, so the language would be similar to a corrupted rakatta or other of the three Builder species and the original sith language. The exposure to the republic would have been limited to jedi encounters (not unheard of) and may make some of the translations easier with the aid of a new model protocol droid or a hand translator(?). Zoist would be an interesting planet to make one of the focal points of the galactic exploration and attempt to trace the exile and revan...

 

the point of the planet hopping would eventually be revealed as the discovery of a superweapon that would be the only way to defeat the true sith once and for all, and the possibility that the main characther finally meet both revan, and the exile in the last few quests prior to the climactic battle with pleadings and insructions from them on their findings and how they would aid the galaxy in warding off the invading true sith...

 

there may also be several colonies where basic is spoken on primitive worlds say during a crash landing and it would ease the language barrier a bit, especially if there were another world that the exiled mandalorians had set up camp on, so the quest there would serve the purpose of rallying the mandalorians to the greater cause of the galaxy

 

all this hopping would be pointless unless from time to time the main character would have to rendevous with the people who sent him/her, so there would be various times that they would cross paths as the main character zig-zags through the outer rim. (it would also be a good way of gathering all the mandalorian exiles at one pont where the leader of one of the fragments is known to have the previously agreed upon locations of the other clans and once they make contact with the republic they would take over from the main character and find the rest of the remnant and furnish them with means off their respective planets. once that is completed they will collaborate with the republic and begin to rebuild their forces to unprecedented levels. the republic would also employ them as military advisors, and the scematics for mandalorian war machines would be handed down for the republic to construct with the oversight of the mandalorian generals)

 

then with the pressure building more and more each time, the encounters with true sith would be more and more frequent during these rendevous. and the combined strength of the mandalorian/republic fleet would be more and more evident with each rendevous. during several of these encounters especially those further away from the core, small sith scout patrols would cross paths with the republic/mandalorian fleet and a small battle would ensue, each time though it would become more and more of a challenge indicating that they were closer to the true sith invaders...(with the availability of better game engines since KOTOR 2 this would make even more realistic space combat a good idea. so instead of looking out a turret to shoot down sith fighters, one would have to fly the craft and shoot their way out of the battle to a designated waypoint where they would finally make the jump to light speed, or to the safety of a capital ship, or even one of the local planets)

 

the climactic battle would be great if the republic and the mandalorians did team up to go up against the invading true sith fleet, i would love to see the basilisk war droids introduced into a combat scene, and even the cutscenes prior to the battle, just think of the massive battle that woud ensue, it would even make the battles of the prequals pale in comparison...

 

anyway the final battle would also involve much more than just watching the cutscenes of what happens, it would actually be playable!!! not only would you be assigned to a flight of ships on the offensive, but there would be regular updates to the many battle objectives assigned once each one is completed until the final assignment was disseminated and the superweapon was activated

 

unfortunately the only way i can see that going would be to use the combined forces of the republic and the mandalorians to draw the sith into the kill zone and annhiailate all the fleets involved, leaving huge disbled floating chunks of space junk

 

and of course the final mission of the players team would be to escape the battle and retreat to Republic space to bring the news back to the homefront that they had just averted the greatest disaster to the galaxy

[Tale]

And maybe they'll have a giant parade afterwards!

 

Oh, how I'm getting sick of that ending.

[Zaxx Kredda]

And maybe they'll have a giant parade afterwards!

 

Oh, how I'm getting sick of that ending.

 

actually i would not even want to see a parade, a more somber tone like a funeral for the ones who died

[Sturm]

Architect, thats pretty good and I would play that if KotOR3 was following that story, but probably what I dislike is the part where your character just cuts off from the force and hides in Correllia, thats alright but the whole "being cut from the force" has been done and would seem like a cliche yet again if it were in the 3rd. The Exile had no choice really and had to cut himself off from the force so he couldnt feel the souls and continual guilt from what s/he did. Revan was a little bit similar, his mind was completely changed to be good when all along he was Revan.

 

I like the idea of how your character can tell when people are lying or not, the idea of NPC's doing such things as lying will bring more realism into the game instead of just the brain dead NPC's that just are in a constant loop and repeat the same almost emotionless dialogue.

[Sturm]

Dont mind my "Trying to get up my posts" post. Kidding

 

But with the storyline, I think it should be kept constant KotOR2 was set 4 year IIRC after KotOR1, I think that KotOR3 should be set after KotOR2 not some time warp back to the past like the Mandalorian Wars or Jedi Civil War. What I think would be a good idea to incorporate those sort of things and make light on them to help us understand it more is to have the main PC have flashback sort of things, similar to K2 with the Korriban Cave, but acctual flashbacks of you being at the scene of something like the Mandalorian Wars, not just in some Cave.