Conan, The Nerfed

[Maria Caliban]

samm:

"You were one of the people complaining about roleplaying-possibilites in games. So now, how does this build fit that? Ok, you put 2 points in cha and int, but still all I see is "ENGINE FIGHT, NO TALK" written on that characters forhead "

 

I've managed to role-play characters with 8 in every stat but one. If my role-playing began and ended with stats, then I'd be a crappy role-player.

 

metadigital:

"With 8 Charisma the character won't be winning any friends in a hurry."

 

This is incorrect. First off, it's only slightly less charismatic than an average person. Secondly, I've met many an ****, jerk, or social reject that is part of a loyal group of ****, jerks, and social rejects. Thirdly, in a quasi-medieval, fantasy setting, being an uncharismatic bore who can cleave someone in two will get you a good number of 'friends.' Fourthly, not all PCs want friends.

 

 

And lastly, the last time I checked, this thread was a complaint about the barbarian being underpowered *in combat* so I provided builds that do wonderfully *in combat*. What a concept.

Edited April 5, 2007 by Maria Caliban

[metadigital]

I wasn't criticizing your Barbarian build.

 

I was simply making an observation about the level of charisma. I would think that uncharismatic toughs, even in a gang, wouldn't have friends. They aren't that meritorious, typically.

 

The most charismatic becomes the leader ... the toughest will just be the gimp character that is brought out at the critical battle moments.

[Maria Caliban]

The most charismatic becomes the leader ... the toughest will just be the gimp character that is brought out at the critical battle moments.

 

I see this as so wrong.

 

In cRPGs, the PC is the leader.

In PnP, the 'leader' can be anyone the group chooses to follow.

 

Again, I think you're focusing too much on stats. There's no such thing as a 'gimp character that only comes out during fights.' The character is always there. Maybe half her face was mauled bear, she bathes once a month, and she only speaks in monosylables and snarls (which would give you far less than 8 charisma), but she most assuridly has a presence and can influence the entire party.

 

Leadership is based on personalities within the group and the situation. The idea that can guess before hand who will be leader based on one stat is, I think, rediculous.

[Maria Caliban]

And of course, when it comes to PnP groups, the players themselves are a factor when it comes to who becomes the leader. Your five points in charisma won't do you any good if other players think you're a jerk. (WOD stats)

[metadigital]

The most charismatic becomes the leader ... the toughest will just be the gimp character that is brought out at the critical battle moments.

 

I see this as so wrong.

 

In cRPGs, the PC is the leader.

In PnP, the 'leader' can be anyone the group chooses to follow.

 

Again, I think you're focusing too much on stats. There's no such thing as a 'gimp character that only comes out during fights.' The character is always there. Maybe half her face was mauled bear, she bathes once a month, and she only speaks in monosylables and snarls (which would give you far less than 8 charisma), but she most assuredly has a presence and can influence the entire party.

 

Leadership is based on personalities within the group and the situation. The idea that can guess before hand who will be leader based on one stat is, I think, ridiculous.

That's the definition of charisma. You may argue that there a broader measure is required / optimal, but technically a character with low charisma cannot lead a group ... perhaps she might be able to threaten, bribe or extort a group to do as she wishes, but they will only voluntarily follow based on their reaction to her charisma.

 

Yes, players' innate characteristics (and their supernatural knowledge of their PnP characters' world) do affect the interactions ...

[kgonzalez164]

This reminds me: what bloody use are bards in crpgs?

Good dialogue choices?

[Maria Caliban]

That's the definition of charisma. You may argue that there a broader measure is required / optimal, but technically a character with low charisma cannot lead a group ... perhaps she might be able to threaten, bribe or extort a group to do as she wishes, but they will only voluntarily follow based on their reaction to her charisma.

 

Yes, players' innate characteristics (and their supernatural knowledge of their PnP characters' world) do affect the interactions ...

 

Eh, nothing in any addition of D&D says that charisma of eight means you can't lead a group. You're just slightly less charismatic than an average person. Nor does having a low charisma mean you cease to exist. Everyone has some influence on the people around them. What you're saying is akin to describing a character with an intelligence of 8 as brain dead, or one with a strength of 8 as a jellyfish.

 

Charisma is a combination of looks, social graces, personal magnetism, personality, and the ability to lead. There is no rule saying that someone with a charisma of 8 can't be a group leader. I'd also like to point out that not all leaders have to be popular. Other characters might voluntarily follow her for a number of reasons. Yes, a more charismatic character has an edge when it comes to getting others to follow her, but an edge is not an certainty.

 

Unless you can point me to a source that states a character with Charisma of 8:

~ Cannot make friends

~ Has no leadership ability

~ Has no influence on others

 

Then I'm going to have to continue disagreeing here.

 

I also still think this comment:

"

[Maria Caliban]

Good dialogue choices?

 

Flavor. It takes a real man to stand around a bloody, raging battle wearing only a chain shirt and playing a lyte.

[metadigital]

Unless you can point me to a source that states a character with Charisma of 8:

~ Cannot make friends

~ Has no leadership ability

~ Has no influence on others

reductio ad absurdum

 

Having a charisma of 8 when all the companions have a charisma of 5 might give her an advantage, but really, low charisma means low ability to influence others.

[nicethugbert]

This same subject came up in the NWN2 boards. I used jagasepp's NWN2 Damage per Round Calculations to compute a fight between a level 1 barbarian and a level 1 fighter, both with no magic gear. The barbarian won about 5 of 6 different situations that I computed, easily. He just barely lost the last. IIRC it was barb with power attack vs. fighter with expertise(or whatever it's called now). IIRC, rage lasted throughout each fight. So, those are some situations where the barb is the strong combatant. I did some preliminary calculations with higher levels and saw the same pattern so I didn't bother to carry them out.

 

But, I see where Strauss is coming from. In my calculations, rage was the winning feat and lasted plenty long. In a campaign loaded with battle, you can't have enough rage. So you don't get to feel the power as often as wanted. And who wants to rest and go through another round of buffing?

 

Personally, I feel that the barb is kinda boring and too dependant on rage for his identity. I would add some dex boosts to his feats list to help him with the whole no armor/lightning reflexes image, of course, in the least exploitable manner possible.

[Jorian Drake]

Barbarians are not underpowered. And, Barbarians can stand toe to toe with fighters any day of the week.

Except that fighters have a lot more feats and with them they can easily beat barbarians

 

 

my vote goes to a fighter/barbarian multiclass char

 

would beat both 'vanilla' Barbarian and Fighter

[Rosbjerg]

throw in some rouge levels and you have yourself a badass backstabbing SOB!

[metadigital]

Do barbarians backstab?

[DeathScepter]

as long as they have sneak attack, yes they can and so do ninjas.

 

 

 

 

A Ninja Barbarians, that is scary. Maybe scarier than a French Canadian Ninjas.

[Tale]

throw in some rouge levels and you have yourself a badass backstabbing SOB!

Throw in some rouge levels and you've got a crossdresser.

[Walsingham]

Crossdressing French Canadian Barbarian Ninjas?

 

Get me the President.

[metadigital]

I thought pirates were the cross-dressers. Never heard of a transvestite ninja.

[DeathScepter]

Ninjas will use just about any tactic to inflirate an enemy camp to complete their mission.................yes including crossdressing among other tactics.

 

 

Ninjas can be very ballsy at times when needed. Ninjas are a natural badass.