What a Baby is Alive?

[Dark Moth]

No [expletive], Sherlock. Father, husband, man, whatever. I'm just talking about the father in the relationship, married or not.

[Sand]

In my system if the couple is in a loving relationship they would naturally come to a mutual decision. That is how relationships work. However if that is not the case it gives the woman the right to tell the man to shove off and let her deal with the problem herself in one way or another.

[kirottu]

Like, uh, rules system for RPGs?

[Krookie]

Dungeons and Diapers?

[Dark Moth]

In my system if the couple is in a loving relationship they would naturally come to a mutual decision.  That is how relationships work.  However if that is not the case it gives the woman the right to tell the man to shove off and let her deal with the problem herself in one way or another.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh wow, and what have I been saying all along, Sand? Geez. Beforehand you were saying how the woman had the final say regardless of the situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but now it's as if you're just contradicting yourself for the sake of being right.

 

Anyway I'd love to stay and continue this insightful chat, but alas I have to go. Adios.

 

Like, uh, rules system for RPGs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited January 5, 2007 by Dark Moth

[Sand]

I am saying that it is the woman's choice, regardless of the dynamics of the relationship, but if the relationship is a loving one then the woman permits the man's input on such matters. It is still ultimately up to the woman, but given the nature of positive relationships it will end up being a mutual decision anyway. However not all relationships are like this and one needs a system in place for all possibilities.

 

Woman's body. Woman's choice.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Sand

[Fionavar]

Thread Pruned: Rhetoric removed ...

[LoneWolf16]

If I can butt in here for a second.....

 

 

My personal belief on this is that after the first trimester, things become a bit more grey in terms of what consitutes human life, so before then, I believe abortion is perfectly fine.

 

Just to stress something that I often find eludes some people....a fetus, or a zygote, is nothing but biological life until it attains consciousness. It's biological life up until that point, then becomes something akin to human once it reaches said point. Just making sure people understand that..conception isn't the start of human life....

 

As for whether the choice to abort rests with the man, woman, or both parties, I'd say it's a joint decision, with more weight given to the woman's whim.

 

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled bickering.

[steelfiredragon]

has no idea

[Sand]

The only say a man has in this matter is what the woman gives him.

[Pop]

As a man, what right do we have to tell a woman what she can do and not do to her own body?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

she gave up ultimate control when she agreed to be impregnated...

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Horse****. Where's the explicit contract? Where's the implicit contract? By ****ing some girl and getting her pregnant do I then gain ownership of her, or dominion over her body? Engaging in a voluntary action while foreseeing a certain result does not entail that one has tacitly consented to that result. If I know that there are burglars in my neighborhood, and I have no locks on my doors, I am not consenting to being robbed, nor am I rescinding ownership of my possessions. If I am a woman, and I'm fully aware of the risk of pregnancy, by having sex I do not consent to being pregnant, nor do I rescind the right to my own body to anyone.

 

Your view is further ****ed in that even if it is reasonable that by having sex one agrees to carry a possible pregnancy to term, it is not reasonable that by having sex, a man claims ownership of a woman's body. That's retarded.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Pop

[Sand]

Right on, Pop!

[taks]

Horse****. Where's the explicit contract? Where's the implicit contract? By ****ing some girl and getting her pregnant do I then gain ownership of her, or dominion over her body?

in other words, you're just another whiny feminist in male clothing?

 

really now, where did anyone say "dominion over her body"? look up the word hyperbole and try to understand the concept of a logical argument.

 

Engaging in a voluntary action while foreseeing a certain result does not entail that one has tacitly consented to that result.

yes, actually, it does. voluntary by definition implies consent. dictionary.com should be your friend.

 

If I know that there are burglars in my neighborhood, and I have no locks on my doors, I am not consenting to being robbed, nor am I rescinding ownership of my possessions.

more hyperbole, and a strawman argument to boot. the analogy doesn't even hold weakly. leaving your door unlocked is not akin to an invitation to incite burglary. having unprotected sex, knowing the consequences, is an invitation. duh.

 

If I am a woman, and I'm fully aware of the risk of pregnancy, by having sex I do not consent to being pregnant, nor do I rescind the right to my own body to anyone.

that's moronic, and again, we aren't talking about "recinding" anything. if you are a woman and you have unprotected sex (or sex that would otherwise result in a pregnancy), you have implied defacto consent for any consequences to yourself since you've knowingly invited said consequences.

 

Your view is further ****ed in that even if it is reasonable that by having sex one agrees to carry a possible pregnancy to term, it is not reasonable that by having sex, a man claims ownership of a woman's body. That's retarded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

didn't imply any ownership. really, where did i say that? show me, please. :crazy:

 

taks

[Fionavar]

And that folks is a wrap ...