Sammael's NWN2 Experience

[kalimeeri]

Yep, its possible and I did it on my second runthrough. It's probably one of the most difficult diplo checks in Act 1, scale-wise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, that would explain it, then. My first PC had 0 Diplomacy; succeeding ones are a little better, but not that much. Maybe the rogue... but he's still cowering in Ft Locke without two coins to rub together, whimpering about being afraid of the graveyard.

[Sammael]

I had decent diplomacy (Negotiator feat + couple of ranks purchased cross-class + high Cha + hat that gives bonus to Diplomacy + Beguiling Influence), but obviously did the quests in wrong order...

[Spider]

That's fine, but I still find it too complicated, as you still have to satisfy five conditions to be able to craft: feat and/or skill, recipe, mold, special component(s), and workbench. Too much micromanagement for my taste. Still, it's a non-essential component of the game, so I'm hopefully not losing anything by not crafting items.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't technically have to find recipes. It depends on on your stance on meta-gaming I suppose. You can just as easy check the bioboards for the recipes. Unless you don't want your character to act on something he/she doesn't have in-game knowledge of.

 

But it's not like crafting is mandatory in order to beat the game or anything. True, you can make stuff that is better than the standard fare, but the game is fairly easy as is.

[taks]

very easy in fact. i played the first time through and the only battle i'd call difficult was the finale, but that was because i made an error in the way in which i attempted to kill the baddy. i did it as a mage on normal difficulty. i've heard that hard-core with a mage in your party running AI is painful since they just dump fireballs on your group. the AI is so bad i'm to the point where puppet mode is a requirement (i'm doing a f/wm this time through). there's nothing worse than clicking on a character and the rest of your party running over, mid-battle, to join him.

 

taks

[Sammael]

Hmmm. I am playing the game on hardcore, with AI still turned on, and I am not finding it very easy (particularly because of the incessant enemy respawning). Perhaps the CNPC AI is what's making it hard? I may have to try puppet mode.

[Percival]

Hmmm. I am playing the game on hardcore, with AI still turned on, and I am not finding it very easy (particularly because of the incessant enemy respawning). Perhaps the CNPC AI is what's making it hard? I may have to try puppet mode.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I played the entire game on hardcore mode with AI turned on - casting was turned off tho. I didnt craft anything, so you dont need to worry about that, as the game throws you many decent weapons every 10 minutes, so you shouldnt worry about that.

 

If the game is too hard, it's because of a weak group setup (lots of casters in the early levels makes it quite annoying) or you're not walking around buffed. Buffing up before hacking and slashing makes a world of difference.

[Sammael]

I just did a test fight to see whether I am hallucinating, or the fights are too hard.

 

I am currently on the second floor of the estate where I was supposed to go pick up the informant.

 

My party consists of my warlock (level 7), Neeshka (rogue 7), Khelgar (fighter , and Elanee (druid . I rested prior to the fight, buffed, and then entered the room where there were about 6 thugs.

 

My buffs were as follows: stoneskin on everyone but Elanee, endure elements on everyone but the PC, protection from elements on the PC, barkskin on everyone except the PC. Elanee has no more slots available for buffing (the rest are occupied with a few meager cure spells).

 

Unfortunately, some of the (hidden) thugs were close to the door when I tried to enter, so I couldn't bring all my characters in. This, of course, resulted in about six or seven other thugs leaving their rooms (or spawning) and attacking me from the behind. I did all that I could (including using disposable items - of course my Use Magic Device bonus of +16 is insufficient to activate scrolls with any degree of accuracy, and the wands I have hurt my party as much as they hurt the enemy), but my whole party died after about ten-twelve rounds. One point of note is that casting on the defensive absolutely does not work for my main character - he either uses it all the time (even when I disable it), or not at all (regardless on how much I click on the button).

 

I've had more tactical battles than this one in Diablo. This is all too reminiscent of the horrible forced enemy-respawning battles of IWD2.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Sammael

[Enoch]

I just did a test fight to see whether I am hallucinating, or the fights are too hard.

 

I am currently on the second floor of the estate where I was supposed to go pick up the informant.

 

My party consists of my warlock (level 7), Neeshka (rogue 7), Khelgar (fighter , and Elanee (druid . I rested prior to the fight, buffed, and then entered the room where there were about 6 thugs.

 

My buffs were as follows: stoneskin on everyone but Elanee, endure elements on everyone but the PC, protection from elements on the PC, barkskin on everyone except the PC. Elanee has no more slots available for buffing (the rest are occupied with a few meager cure spells).

 

Unfortunately, some of the (hidden) thugs were close to the door when I tried to enter, so I couldn't bring all my characters in. This, of course, resulted in about six or seven other thugs leaving their rooms (or spawning) and attacking me from the behind. I did all that I could (including using disposable items - of course my Use Magic Device bonus of +16 is insufficient to activate scrolls with any degree of accuracy, and the wands I have hurt my party as much as they hurt the enemy), but my whole party died after about ten-twelve rounds. One point of note is that casting on the defensive absolutely does not work for my main character - he either uses it all the time (even when I disable it), or not at all (regardless on how much I click on the button).

 

I've had more tactical battles than this one in Diablo. This is all too reminiscent of the horrible forced enemy-respawning battles of IWD2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is one of the harder areas of the game-- the enemies are a pretty close match for your group. The thugs aren't spawning, they're using their stealth skills. If you just walk down the hall, you'll be surrounded in no time. I found that it was best to park my party in a room I knew was clear, with Khelgar guarding the door (using the "stand your ground" broadcast command), while Elanee (high spot & listen skills) goes looking for the baddies and draws them back to the rest of your group.

[aVENGER]

I just did a test fight to see whether I am hallucinating, or the fights are too hard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, welcome to NWN2's Insta-Spawnfest of Death

[taks]

that was probably the other "tough" fight i ran into. keep in mind, when i did it, i was in normal rules mode so i could lob every spell i had into the group, killing stealthed as well. i will be there soon with my f/wm guy...

 

taks

[Gfted1]

that was probably the other "tough" fight i ran into.  keep in mind, when i did it, i was in normal rules mode so i could lob every spell i had into the group, killing stealthed as well.  i will be there soon with my f/wm guy...

 

taks

 

 

Is that to say that in Hardcore mode, stealthed enemies are not effected by AoE?

[Sammael]

I just completed the area, by following the lure'n'kill tactic. Sure, it was effective, but it was also about as exciting as watching the paint dry. Moire was a total pushover, and I was surprised to see that the guy I was there to escort lived through the whole affair.

 

I think I'll try to do some non-navigated exploration of the city on my own now, prior to going to look for that misplaced Waterdhavian emissary. But not tonight, I've had enough NWN2 for one day.

[Gromnir]

I just completed the area, by following the lure'n'kill tactic. Sure, it was effective, but it was also about as exciting as watching the paint dry. Moire was a total pushover, and I was surprised to see that the guy I was there to escort lived through the whole affair.

 

I think I'll try to do some non-navigated exploration of the city on my own now, prior to going to look for that misplaced Waterdhavian emissary. But not tonight, I've had enough NWN2 for one day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

there ain't much to do in neverwinter that ain't part o' the critical path... 'least not in chapter 1.

 

btw, the worstest respawns in game for Gromnir were in the portion o' the game that for you is coming up next... but things gets better after that.

 

if you is gonna use crafting, then crank difficulty up a notch to max... even so, crafting can break this game real easy if you let it.... specially as a warlock with high umd. wands for any occasion coupled with an enchanted mithral small shield, some uber armour, and one of those nymph cloaks +6 or +8 can really kills any challenge

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

You fools, you don't actually *fight* through that area, you just get a thief on invisibility and haste dash into the room with Fihelis, initiate conversation (thereby teleoprting your mainchar into the room as well), then have whoever's waiting by the door exit, thus, in a PST-style exploit, letting everybody leave the place. Or just have thief & mainchar sneak back.

 

Seriously, who barges in there like an Anomen and kills everybody? Come on, think pnp, not Diablo.

[Sand]

[Tigranes]

"

[Sammael]

You fools, you don't actually *fight* through that area, you just get a thief on invisibility and haste dash into the room with Fihelis, initiate conversation (thereby teleoprting your mainchar into the room as well), then have whoever's waiting by the door exit, thus, in a PST-style exploit, letting everybody leave the place. Or just have thief & mainchar sneak back.

 

Seriously, who barges in there like an Anomen and kills everybody? Come on, think pnp, not Diablo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Soooo... how many Insanity Points would you award for metagaming like that in PnP?

[taks]

Is that to say that in Hardcore mode, stealthed enemies are not effected by AoE?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, that's to say that i can burn anyone without fear of hitting my own. the easiest way to take down a stealthed critter is to lob AoE spells, but in hardcore, you're taking down yourself as well.

 

taks

[Tigranes]

Hey, in pnp I'd have the thief sneak in, talk to Fihelis himself, and sneak out, while the rest of my party stays outside creating suitable Qara-like diversions. Not my fault the game can't handle creativity. "

 

And Spot is really powerful in NWN2, so half the time you can see them on screen even though they are still invisible. They can still baxtab though, so you have to turn to face them.

[Sammael]

I don't think a mid-level rogue could sneak through a house full of other mid-level rogues while searching for a prisoner and remain undetected. If a player suggested that course of action to me in PnP, I'd ask him to make a Wisdom check.

 

On the other hand, it's damn sure that CRPGs can't handle creativity.

[taks]

crpg "creativity" is difficult to code for. trying to come up with branches allowing a variety of "guesstimated" choices by players requires a ridiculous amount of effort, not to mention the code base would be huge. we'd need real AI for that to work.

 

you'd probably also want to make some sort of intelligence check, sammael. or at least a knock or two upside the head.

 

taks

[Wistrik]

Spot should disable backstabbing ability. If I can see them on the screen, I take that to mean my character can also see them. And if I can see them, I sure as heck am not going to let them get in a hidden attack, but the game lets them do it anyway, no matter how high my attributes/skills might be. (I've tested with cheat codes, it makes no difference.)

 

I dislike insta-spawns too. So many places are empty if you walk into them through a certain door, but instantly fill full of baddies if you walk through a different door, or walk back the way you came in the opposite direction. It's silly. Then again, the way this game can bog down, the devs probably decided localized spawns were better than creating everyone on the map when you first arrive. I don't recall any unlimited spawn areas though. I'm pretty good about securing an area before I leave, and I don't remember having to give up because the bad guys wouldn't stop coming. Some areas do have lots of bad guys, but in finite quantities.

[Pop]

There isn't "backstabbing" in 3.5. The "sneak attack" is any attack by a rogue that isn't being actively defended against. Thus, if you're fighting 2 rogues, 1 of them always gets a sneak attack (there might be a feat that changes this) to keep this from being totally broken, they implemented +xd6 in place of double or triple or quad damage. Most people don't like that either.

 

At least it makes it so that you don't have to be behind someone to backstab. I remember a few enemies in BG that had their backs against walls, so that you couldn't end the fight before it began.

[Tigranes]

I don't think a mid-level rogue could sneak through a house full of other mid-level rogues while searching for a prisoner and remain undetected. If a player suggested that course of action to me in PnP, I'd ask him to make a Wisdom check.

 

Outrageous distractions would be the minimal requirement.

 

I'm pretty sure there are no unlimited spawn areas either, and if there are, it can't be more than one or two. I'm not too bothered about it.

 

Anyway, I think Pop is right, or something, about the sneak rules - you don't even have to be hidden in NWN2, as long as you hit somebody's back it's a sneak attack (thus your rogue could potentially make a sneak attack EVERY TURN indefinitely.) BG did use the back-to-wall workaround, and dialogue initiation upon area entrance regardless of invisibility (i.e. Gromnir Il-Khan). Of course, traps were so broken in BG it wasn't funny - my solo Assassin in SoA could kill the Tree Irenicus in ONE TURN with traps.

[Pop]

While a lot of people don't like the new rules, they decidedly make rogues a lot more powerful. Sneak attacks can also be attempted on defenseless opponents, so a couple of rogues and a mage stocked up with disabling enchantments pose just as much, if not more, threat as a band of fighters and barbarians. It wasn't always like that. Thieves were only dangerous in combat in 2nd ed. if they had a few sources of invisibility.