I need some advice please

[Spider]

Are there any PnP systems that separate appearance and personality as two separate traits?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

White Wolf used to do it in the old WoD and iirc still do in Exalted. New WoD rules no longer have appearance as a trait, although there is a merit called Striking Looks, so physical appearance is not included in any of the traits.

 

There are other systems that do as well, but that's the one I know best.

[Jorian Drake]

Are there any PnP systems that separate appearance and personality as two separate traits?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

White Wolf used to do it in the old WoD and iirc still do in Exalted. New WoD rules no longer have appearance as a trait, although there is a merit called Striking Looks, so physical appearance is not included in any of the traits.

 

There are other systems that do as well, but that's the one I know best.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there is also a hungarian one, only 5 years younger than the D&D.

Problem is: i would need to translate it for you, and that's a LOT of work.

 

 

Main ability scores are:

 

Strenght

Agility

Speed

Endurance

Intelligence

Willpower

Charisma

Appearance

 

 

and some GM-s use extra Luck

[metadigital]

I remember a D&D system that utilized Comeliness as well as Charisma. It must be twenty years ago: AD&D? In the Unearthed Arcana, I believe.

[Sofaking]

Are there any PnP systems that separate appearance and personality as two separate traits?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

White Wolf used to do it in the old WoD and iirc still do in Exalted. New WoD rules no longer have appearance as a trait, although there is a merit called Striking Looks, so physical appearance is not included in any of the traits.

 

There are other systems that do as well, but that's the one I know best.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So, were there any bonuses to having an ugly character?

[metadigital]

The Unearthed Arcana had negative Charisma, and some of the more fiersome Gods (in the Deities and Demigods expansion book) had Charisma scores of -25.

 

This negative score had a similar effect to normal charisma, except that the base motivator was terror, rather than adoration.

 

Ugly characters would seem less of a threat.

[Spider]

So, were there any bonuses to having an ugly character?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope. And it's not the way the system works. Low appearance for all intents and purposes is the same as having low strength.

[Walsingham]

I'm not saying it's better, but I think Cyberpunk used to use 'seduction' as a feature of how er... seductive you were. Charisma meant how good you were at handling people.

[metadigital]

Charisma should have a correlation to seduction, though.

[Jorian Drake]

Charisma should have a correlation to seduction, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

seduction as a skill, and both appearance and charisma modifiers are applied to it.

[Hydrogen]

I remember a D&D system that utilized Comeliness as well as Charisma. It must be twenty years ago: AD&D? In the Unearthed Arcana, I believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I remember that one too. I thought it was great, becuase so often they two don't have as much in common as people like to think and generalize.

[Zachech]

well i always thought of charisma as personal magnetism, command, and the respect that people treat you with. you could have an ugly general in war who you would never question, and whose battle scars and ugliness only add to his charisma. likewise, a really sexy person who is a brainless idiot would have a really low charisma.

 

that's why i like the white wolf statistic set up more than D&D, the stats are less lumped together, since there are more.

[darastrix83]

There are so many things wrong with all of the modifications that it hurts my brain but I'll try to be calm and start from the begging.

 

Races are balanced but over a spectrum like spells. Bottom line Magic missile is the best offensive level one spell. That doesn't mean it's the best in every situation. Still many people get other spells because they can, through clever role playing be made powerful. Races are the same all +1 races are less powerful than a certain benchmark which would make them +2 races.

 

As far as dwarves being ugly. First Charisma is about the good looks of the race not necessarily as seen by humans. Dwarves would consider other dwarves to be much more attractive than a human. So to say that their ugly because you don't like the is facetious at best. Only truly monstrous races or ones with major personality flaws that even they find annoying should be awarded a -2 penalty to charisma.

 

Finnaly many gamers are more interested in story that flat out power. I can kill much better opponents through plot manipulation than through beating their faces in. And what if I want to be a dwarven diplomant? now because you have "balanced" the dwarf i do not have this option. In short changing the balance eliminates options rather than creating them.

 

If you want to make the races reflect your view of them lets be fair. Elves should be a plus race. They are supposed to be inhumanly wise beautiful intelligent and grace full +2 wis, +2 cha, +2 int, +2 dex, at the very least if not +4 to those stats. So if you want to reflect that in your world give it to them and then make them a +2 +3 or whatever it takes to make them balanced but don't arbitrarily disable them in other fields just because it's not what you like about them.

 

As an avid modifier of the system myself I would never tell you not to modify it. That's what made dnd popular to begin with and it's still what makes in interesting. Just try and think a little more about the consequences of your actions and the results you are really looking for before you change every race in the game on it's ear.

[ramza]

There are so many things wrong with all of the modifications that it hurts my brain but I'll try to be calm and start from the begging.

 

Races are balanced but over a spectrum like spells. Bottom line Magic missile is the best offensive level one spell. That doesn't mean it's the best in every situation. Still many people get other spells because they can, through clever role playing be made powerful. Races are the same all +1 races are less powerful than a certain benchmark which would make them +2 races.

 

As far as dwarves being ugly. First Charisma is about the good looks of the race not necessarily as seen by humans. Dwarves would consider other dwarves to be much more attractive than a human. So to say that their ugly because you don't like the is facetious at best. Only truly monstrous races or ones with major personality flaws that even they find annoying should be awarded a -2 penalty to charisma.

 

Finnaly many gamers are more interested in story that flat out power. I can kill much better opponents through plot manipulation than through beating their faces in. And what if I want to be a dwarven diplomant? now because you have "balanced" the dwarf i do not have this option. In short changing the balance eliminates options rather than creating them.

 

If you want to make the races reflect your view of them lets be fair. Elves should be a plus race. They are supposed to be inhumanly wise beautiful intelligent and grace full +2 wis, +2 cha, +2 int, +2 dex, at the very least if not +4 to those stats. So if you want to reflect that in your world give it to them and then make them a +2 +3 or whatever it takes to make them balanced but don't arbitrarily disable them in other fields just because it's not what you like about them.

 

As an avid modifier of the system myself I would never tell you not to modify it. That's what made dnd popular to begin with and it's still what makes in interesting. Just try and think a little more about the consequences of your actions and the results you are really looking for before you change every race in the game on it's ear.

 

 

Haha, thanks for your feedback!!!

 

The thing is that this thread is like 2 years old already. I have changed my mind over most of the things I suggested here. Still, any opinions and comments are welcome.