KotOR2 confirmed at 1Up.com

[Petor23]

I think that if the game was KotOR2 they would have changed the forum name by now, don't you?

[Iolo]

I think that if the game was KotOR2 they would have changed the forum name by now, don't you?

Why? KOTOR2 isn't announced yet.

[Darque]

Persactly.

 

Until it's officially confirmed I doubt they "can" change it, even if everyone and their left toe proclaim it is in fact KotOR 2.

[Drakron]

In terms of reflexes (not actual speed), I got the impression from Episode 1 that Anakin's ability to predict the future a few seconds in advance (and react to it) is what made him such a good pilot and gave him his amazing reflexes. It's a shame, too, because that kind of cheapened his skill as a pilot for me. ("Oh, well, it's just the Force that makes him THAT good.") I never got the impression that he was actually concentrating on seeing the future - it was something he did instinctively while flying.

 

Also, Anakin was also said to be able to see "things before they happen," according to his mother, and I'm not sure he was doing so intentionally in those instances, either - I don't think he even knew what he could do.

 

Anyway. I think a Force user's ability to see into the future depends on the Force user.

Well Star Wars d20 have bloodlines, I dont recall offhand what the Skywalker line abilities actually do but they are kind of "massive bonus" type since all the Skywalkers have been stromg in the force.

 

There are a lot of feats and skills involved with the force system, its pretty hard to find what a force user is good at in a particular field reguading the force, some are just more naturaly inclined to some areas.

[Darque]

I think their ability is having the Force Sensitive feat, without having to take the force sensitive feat.

[Darque]

In terms of reflexes (not actual speed), I got the impression from Episode 1 that Anakin's ability to predict the future a few seconds in advance (and react to it) is what made him such a good pilot and gave him his amazing reflexes. It's a shame, too, because that kind of cheapened his skill as a pilot for me. ("Oh, well, it's just the Force that makes him THAT good.") I never got the impression that he was actually concentrating on seeing the future - it was something he did instinctively while flying.

 

Also, Anakin was also said to be able to see "things before they happen," according to his mother, and I'm not sure he was doing so intentionally in those instances, either - I don't think he even knew what he could do.

 

Anyway. I think a Force user's ability to see into the future depends on the Force user.

Which makes the most sense

[Drakron]

I think their ability is having the Force Sensitive feat, without having to take the force sensitive feat.

No, bloodlines are not feats they are simply automatic added to a character of course then tend to have a bonus and a penalty to keep then balanced except if you happen to be a Skywalker.

 

That was one of the problems with SWKotOR, they keep saying "oh Revan was powerful" and Revan pretty much sucked compared to most of the other party menbers (expecialy the way they impemented force powers, no wonder most people saved levels) since he was a half baked jedi and a half baked whatever, if BioWare had gone the extra mile and got full use Star Wars d20 instead of copy/paste jobs that did not fool anyone.

 

If OE is doing a Star Wars CRPG for god sake use a rule, I dont care if its Star Wars d20, West End d6, S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system ... I dont want the hack job that BioWare did with SWKotOR that is one of the WORST implementations I seen, make a game for RPG players and not for the "adverage" Xbox player since the fact is Xbox sucks when in comes to games and all the Xboxers will buy Morrowind GOTY because there is nothing else coming out.

[Darque]

 

You're reading too much into my reply.

 

I was replying to your question about the "Skywalker" bloodline ability.

 

"Their" ability is having Force Sensitivity without having to take the feat. *looks in book* Oh, and they can choose force feats (control, sense and alter) without being "Force level 1".

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

No, bloodlines are not feats they are simply automatic added to a character of course then tend to have a bonus and a penalty to keep then balanced except if you happen to be a Skywalker.

 

That was one of the problems with SWKotOR, they keep saying "oh Revan was powerful" and Revan pretty much sucked compared to most of the other party menbers (expecialy the way they impemented force powers, no wonder most people saved levels) since he was a half baked jedi and a half baked whatever, if BioWare had gone the extra mile and got full use Star Wars d20 instead of copy/paste jobs that did not fool anyone.

 

If OE is doing a Star Wars CRPG for god sake use a rule, I dont care if its Star Wars d20, West End d6, S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system ... I dont want the hack job that BioWare did with SWKotOR that is one of the WORST implementations I seen, make a game for RPG players and not for the "adverage" Xbox player since the fact is Xbox sucks when in comes to games and all the Xboxers will buy Morrowind GOTY because there is nothing else coming out.

Does the Skywalker line start with Anakin ?

 

The thing is not everyone who plays KOTOR plays SW d20. I've played KOTOR but I have no desire to play SW and havnt for many years. I stopped back with the West End Games line.

 

From my perspective the rules worked. Actually I didnt even look at the gamestats sheet (the one that tracks the rules) thats how fluid and non intrusive they were.

 

I wouldnt touch MGOTY unless I was paid for the displeasure.

[Berserk]

Are there any online sources that show the different SW characters attributes and skills?

[Darque]

Does the Skywalker line start with Anakin ?

As far as the force is concerned, yups.

 

The thing is not everyone who plays KOTOR plays SW d20. I've played KOTOR but I have no desire to play SW and havnt for many years. I stopped back with the West End Games line.

 

Which isn't relavant, as KotOR "is" based on the d20 version.

[Darque]

Are there any online sources that show the different SW characters attributes and skills?

doubtful, if there were any sites, Lucasarts and Wizards of the Coast would likely go after them like a shark.

 

I heard that someone posted a SW to Rifts conversion on the Rifts main boards and Lucasarts sued them for it (sued the Paladium company)

 

 

LA is VERY touchy when it comes to "canonal" things. <_<

[Drakron]

 

You're reading too much into my reply.

 

I was replying to your question about the "Skywalker" bloodline ability.

 

"Their" ability is having Force Sensitivity without having to take the feat. *looks in book* Oh, and they can choose force feats (control, sense and alter) without being "Force level 1".

I am a bit paranoid.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I am a bit paranoid.

 

The issue is not if you're paranoid, the issue is if you're paranoid enough. :ph34r:

[Drakron]

The thing is not everyone who plays KOTOR plays SW d20. I've played KOTOR but I have no desire to play SW and havnt for many years. I stopped back with the West End Games line.

You dont understand.

 

The d20 system is flexible but any changes to the basis of the system can break and frankly BioWare break it when they implemented the half assed idea of making skills irrelevent to problem solving, it does not matter if you have 2 points of computer use as long you have 60 computer spikes, they can say all they want about "giving everyone a change to do things" but that just looks to be same excuse of DX:IW is using to defend it was not even as good as DX, less time making stupid engines that require a supercomputer to run and more in implementing gameplay like DX did would be better but I guess thats player mentality these days, "all show and no content".

 

Anyway enough rant on that ...

 

Point is if they are using a system its best to FULLY implement that system or have a QA to test that changes (not "oh lets implement 7 skills and cut in half skill points gain to balance it out" because we pretty much now were that leads to) so the system (despite the flaws that will be found) basic funtions as intented, its does not matter if its d20, d6, world of darkness, Grups ... if the system works lets not go around playing around with basic core funtions and then rush it down the door.

 

I really dont mind OE making a Star Wars RPG but then going down the same road as BioWare on rules implementation is something I really do not want to see, BioWare raped the d20 system and have the nerve to claim they know the d20 system and work close with WotC ....

 

 

Sorry but that claim to me was pretty much the same as calling me stupid.

 

I just want a CRPG with a system that despite its flaws funtions and I did niot get that with SWkotOR.

[Judge Hades]

Strange Days is a good movie, but lets stay on topic.

 

I just hope I will be able to play a character that I want to play and which I have the freedom to develop, both in character and rules wise, as I wish. If Obsidian guys can do that I will buy this game and love it. I don't want to play a freaking Jedi. I hate Jedi. They are only ubermunchkin characters that have no place in a role playing game.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The d20 system is flexible but any changes to the basis of the system can break and frankly BioWare break it when they implemented the half assed idea of making skills irrelevent to problem solving, it does not matter if you have 2 points of computer use as long you have 60 computer spikes, they can say all they want about "giving everyone a change to do things" but that just looks to be same excuse of DX:IW is using to defend it was not even as good as DX, less time making stupid engines that require a supercomputer to run and more in implementing gameplay like DX did would be better but I guess thats player mentality these days, "all show and no content".

No I understand perfectly what your view as a player of SW d20 is. But as a non player I dont care about adherence to rules I dont even know. KOTOR played very fluidly and as I said I didnt even need to refer to dice rolls, thats how good the onscreen visual feedback was.

 

So its not going to bother me whether or not Obsidian adhere to any rules or not. As long as they maintain the same level of fluidity.

 

DX II was a very refreshing game. First time I have felt absolutely free to do whatever I wanted to do. Without having to chase the reward carot for advancement. When I broke back into the WTO and darted everyone (rather than shooting them) I was working for them after all. I dont think it mattered to the game. But it made my particular version of Alex D rather pleased with themselves.

Too many times in RPGs the need to gain experience so you can be the right level to tackle a particular challenge may well force you into a particular mode of play. DX alleviated that at a stroke. No having to give dialogue choices a reward of 1000 xp just to make the "talkie" path a viable one.

[Judge Hades]

If you are going to make a game based on an established rules set and setting you must adhere to that rules set and setting as close as possible otherwise what is the point of using that rules set and setting in the first freaking place?!?!?!

 

If they are going to use the d20 System of Star Wars they shouldn't go half assed at it like they did with KotOR. If they didn't want to do it right or couldn't do it right, they should have done something else. I want to playa game that isn't half assed.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

If you are going to make a game based on an established rules set and setting you must adhere to that rules set and setting as close as possible otherwise what is the point of using that rules set and setting in the first freaking place?!?!?!

 

If they are going to use the d20 System of Star Wars they shouldn't go half assed at it like they did with KotOR. If they didn't want to do it right or couldn't do it right, they should have done something else. I want to playa game that isn't half assed.

But based on means just that. Not a carbon copy of. If they had said KOTOR uses the D20 rules system then that would have been naughty. But based on as long as they use a D20 in there somewhere they are covered.

 

I'm not sure why people are so fixated on rules I'm always more concerned that the game plays. Even when its based on a rules system I am familiar with like D&D.

[Judge Hades]

You either follow the rules of the game or the game means nothing.

 

I have no problem of them making a CRPG based on the Star Wars setting but if they are going to use an established rules system use it in total (or at least 70%). If you don't or can't use the established rules system because of whatever the reason then MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY RULES.

 

Trying to fit a PnP game to a computer is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole so why bother. It would make a whole lot more sense to make a rules system that fits on the computer and keep PnP rules in PnP environments.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I have no problem of them making a CRPG based on the Star Wars setting but if they are going to use an established rules system use it in total (or at least 70%). If you don't or can't use the established rules system because of whatever the reason then MAKE YOU OWN BLOODY RULES.

Umm. But thats exactly what they did. Made their own rules "based on" the D20.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Pretty much like Hades_One put it, there's no point in using a ruleset if its using it carelessly. No amount of Rule 0 apologism removes that fact. Its not a question of being a carbon copy, its of questionign yourself "What can the rules do for the game that my own rules wont?". If you go with using a pre-established ruleset, then its because it fits your vision for the game; using it, but changing it shows theres something you didn't quite studied on the rules, otherwise there would not be a need to change them.

 

A company could just as well create a SW CRPG without basing it on a specific ruleset. Bioware could do this and succeed, as the rules were not what sold the game: Bioware's name and the SW setting did.

[Judge Hades]

Umm. But thats exactly what they did. Made their own rules "based on" the D20.

They didn't make their own rules for it is based on something else.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Pretty much like Hades_One put it, there's no point in using a ruleset if its using it carelessly. No amount of Rule 0 apologism removes that fact. Its not a question of being a carbon copy, its of questionign yourself "What can the rules do for the game that my own rules wont?". If you go with using a pre-established ruleset, then its because it fits your vision for the game; using it, but changing it shows theres something you didn't quite studied on the rules, otherwise there would not be a need to change them.

 

A company could just as well create a SW CRPG without basing it on a specific ruleset. Bioware could do this and succeed, as the rules were not what sold the game: Bioware's name and the SW setting did.

I dont see the point in going back and making a rules system from scratch when you can adapt one that already exists.

 

I very much doubt that people bought KOTOR for its rules system any more than they bought BG for its. Rather they bought it for the setting which using the rules system or a custom version of it allows.

 

DM's tinker with the rules all the time if the game has different rules interpretations then its not really that different.

[Darque]

Umm. But thats exactly what they did. Made their own rules "based on" the D20.

 

Bzzzt... and Shadowpaladin drops the ball once more...

 

To "make your own" you have to... well... make your own.

 

What they have is a watered down version of the d20 ruleset... that's hardly making your own rules.