KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion

[Sturm]

I agree, the Exile would be a hard thing to put in depending of what people put in, its gona be really hard if this series progresses towards K3, because it was pretty confusing in K2 as it was, you know - Revan is DS, Revan is LS choices, either way it greatly affects the game, now if there is a K3 you'll have to choose both Revan and Exile so its going to be a complete jumple up, there will be numerous things which happen during the game, and many, many resolutions and endings.

 

So to perhaps resolve this issue, instead of having all this freedom with the choices, maybe it has to lean more towards the canon aspect. As Plano Skywalker said, Revan is flexible, because either way he ends up going to the unknown regions to fight the true Sith. On the other hand, we do not fully know the ending of KotOR2, nor what truely happened to the Exile, s/he could have either a) gone to find Revan to fight along side(LS) or b) stayed at Malachor V? (DS)

 

Maybe when it comes to the Exile, they should keep it canon, ie. Canon side, but not gender, thats not really an issue with gender. Keeping Exile LS, and having Revan either side.

[darth caesar]

So why is having different characters available based on gender choice such a problem? The previous games featured this trick, where dialog and plot options were changed depending upon what the player decided from the beginning. A male revan can romance bastilla. A female revan can get with carth. A male exile can have a variety of chicks, the female can get with atton. KOTOR 3 shouldn't be any different.

 

Concerning the panic attack is coming from alleged LS "bias". Both games have allowed the characters to eseentially decide if they were going to be LS or DS, and also allowed for separate endings that reflected those choices. So it basically comes down to who prefers what. And if a majority of folks prefer LS to DS, so be it.

Edited January 4, 2007 by darth caesar

[Dark Wastl]

Even though I play LS pretty much all the time, I can't agree with that.

 

You simply cannot take out the LS/DS choice, not if you want great ratings and sell many copies.

Once you gave the player the choice, you can't take that out again. You would regress, and that's not something a game-company is interested in.

 

That would be roughly the same, as telling the player he can only play a male character, the outcry would be enormous. LS/DS is not on that level, but it is still something of importance, which you can't just take away from the player.

[DeathScepter]

I do think within the character creation, regardless of the PC identity, should have a Revan/Exile Questionaire.

 

 

Basicly setting parameters of your versions of Exile or Revan, or going by defluat if you haven't played either Kotor 1 or 2.

[Darth Mortis]

So why is having different characters available based on gender choice such a problem? The previous games featured this trick, where dialog and plot options were changed depending upon what the player decided from the beginning. A male revan can romance bastilla. A female revan can get with carth. A male exile can have a variety of chicks, the female can get with atton. KOTOR 3 shouldn't be any different.

 

Concerning the panic attack is coming from alleged LS "bias". Both games have allowed the characters to eseentially decide if they were going to be LS or DS, and also allowed for separate endings that reflected those choices. So it basically comes down to who prefers what. And if a majority of folks prefer LS to DS, so be it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The problem would be more to do with any of the characters from the first two games showing up to much. I think one of the reasons LA hasn't said anything about KOTOR 3 might be because of the difficulty in finding ways to bring some of them back. Carth could be in KOTOR 2 regardless of if Revan was LS or DS, as could Bastilla which at least soothed the tempers of the fans who wanted to see some of the original chars in there at some point. But they still had to ignore everyone else, the droids aside. Now imagine trying to work out who should reappear in KOTOR 3, at least one character is out based on the gender of the exile, and another two are affected by his/hers aligment and one more could be dead regardless of either. Just going with Mandolore and the droids again would be a cop-out.

 

In fairness LA can't be faulted for landing themselves in such a difficult place when it comes to a plot for KOTOR 3, I doubt that they ever seriously considered the possibility of ending up making three games in the same series like this.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Nero]

Kill them both off then it won't really matter move ahead say I don't know 100 years later. Problem solved.

[darth caesar]

"The problem would be more to do with any of the characters from the first two games showing up to much. I think one of the reasons LA hasn't said anything about KOTOR 3 might be because of the difficulty in finding ways to bring some of them back."

 

If what you say is true, then the problem is trying to please everybody. By having every possible outcome from the previous two games included, you are saying it would be a nightmare scenario from a technical standpoint.

 

If this is the case, then the canon backstory would be the logical choice. If it is simply a matter of the game becoming too complex, there must be ONE starting point that will be used.

 

Of course the idea of many different finish lines should still be in the game. Having the choice of good or evil, having a handful of different outcomes would be appealing. But to try and weave in 6 or 7 different starting points is a bit insane.

 

LucasArts should not worry about offending the minority who prefer the DS. They should use the canon as the starting point. Then it's possible to make a quality game that offers all the perks and features we've come to be familiar with from the first two.

Edited January 4, 2007 by darth caesar

[DAWUSS]

Going with the SW canon will make the developer's storywriting problem a helluva lot easier, as now they only have to write according to one background and not 16. Of course, there should still be multiple endings for K3, and there will most likely be a canon ending that will be used for reference in future SW works (assuming K3 wraps up the videogame portion of the franchise).

 

 

Command & Conquer was known for having multiple endings, but only the canon ending became the basis for the next game, and (IIRC) the fans accepted that.

 

 

 

Besides, you want DSF Revan for K3? Make some mods once it comes out

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and I hope K3 has at least one makeout scene in it. One we actually see.

[Darth Mortis]

I wouldn't put money on a makeout scene in KOTOR 3, Starwars isn't exactly known for doing them period and LA likes to keep the ratings for the games/films as low as they can. And before anyone says that a makeout scene isn't going to raise the ratings do remember that different countries have differing ideas as to how they rate things and chances are they'll aim for the lowest rating in the hardest country, rather than have to mess around with different 'cut' versions of the same game. I know they cut a decapitation scene out of the game bloodlines for the Europen versions simply because it wouldn't have got past one countrys censors (I think it was the German censors, but I stand ready to be corrected) for example.

[Sturm]

The only hint of bias in the game would lie with the Exile, Revan can be either gender option if choosable because either way he goes to fight the true Sith, Exile on the other hand, if DS Exile stays on Malachor V and doesnt have any association with Revan whatsoever, is LS Exile goes to find Revan. As we all know the KotOR2 ending was cut, from both aspects, maybe when the TSLRP comes out, it will answer more questions about the DS Exile and what he acctually does, and if LS Exile acctually does go to find Revan. (But the dialogue before, with Kreia, where she asks you what your going to pretty much answers some of those questions)

 

Gender would not be much of a problem, unless other party members from the previous games are in it, depening on who, and what gender is set for characters it will have effect on some of the dialogue said by the other characters attitude towards either Revan or Exile.

[Guest The Architect]

I can

Edited January 5, 2007 by The Architect

[DAWUSS]

I just read that Darth Revan's tomb was in EAW:FOC...

 

 

First HK-47, now Revan

[theslug]

Wow i just read all that stuff and that sounds really solid and probably something they could do. So I'd like to extend a hearty thanks **** for ruining the entire plot for the game I've been waiting for so long for. jk but seriously thats some serious investigating you've gone through.

[Plano Skywalker]

Architect,

 

You do have some good ideas there. I especially like the bit about Revan's mask...I would like to see that developed in K3....it might also explain Nihilius's mask.

 

However, I don't see LS (redeemed) Revan using a "Force sucker" like Nihilius to wipe out entire worlds. That is something pre-redemption Revan might have done but I don't think it is consistent with the LS ending of K1. (I do want a lot more backstory into Revan's ties with the 3 big bads of K2....that needs to be really fleshed out in-game).

 

So, if I am correct that your story idea is not consistent with redeemed Revan, then we have 2 Yellow Brick Roads which is something they have not done yet and, unless they go to 2 shrinkwraps (KOTOR: Blue and KOTOR: Red, for instance), I doubt we will see 2 different story progressions in these games. No, I'm afraid DS will be just another frustrated ANTI-HERO in K3.

 

And, as far as allowing for every possible contigency (DSF Revan kills Carth on the Star Forge), I would much rather the devs spend their time giving us an NPC pool that is larger than the max ship compliment. That way, we can have some meaningful choices in K3 that affect the quality and replayability of K3.

 

Imagine dialogue influence that takes into account real consequences:

"keep talking like that and you are off this boat!".

[Guest Accept]

Architect goes K.O

 

And yeah, it sounds awesome.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Accept

[darth caesar]

Pretty solid storyline arch. I have some minor points of contention. But first, what I like:

 

The story itself is logical. It fits in with what Revan is all about. Excellent tactics and strategy, military leadership, and bold, risky behavior. Taking the fight to the True Sith.

 

I also like the idea of the exile playing a prominent role in pt 3. A lot of folks became as attached (or even more) to exile as they were to revan. Having a major role for him/her is a good idea.

 

Finally, the idea of having a 3rd PC emerge in this game is cool too. It gives us the opportunity to build up some anticipation and learn more about the situation before resolving the storyline.

 

I disagree with making the redemption of Revan a LS focal point in 3. Simply for the reason that we've been there, and done that. For us LS fans, that was one of the main points of kotor 1. We spent the entire game turning this dude around to the light side of the force. To make this the LS storyline in kotor 3 would be pretty repetitive and boring. A cop-out, as you say.

 

Also, the devs should be able to put the same face choices we had in 1 and 2 for revan and exile. I would include the mask option for revan in those choices for the DS fans. But Revan not wearing a mask shouldn't be a problem for the storyline. It's not like many folks in the unknown worlds would recognize him anyway. Remember, Revan visited Koriban, a home of the Sith, in k1 and nobody recognized him (or believed him when he said he was Revan)! So having Revan without a mask shouldn't be a big stretch in this case. If folks like the mask, add it, and if not, don't.

 

The big question is, on the new platforms like 360 and ps 3, is there enough room to accomodate the different storylines from the beginning? Is it possible, from a technical standpoint, to load in 3 or 4 different starting points and then go from there?

 

If so, then I think LS canon and DS fans could all be happy.

[Nero]

Are we forgetting if it does get made it will go to the xbox 360, and big alot bigger well could be, and even have entirely different story lines from different area's something i thought was promised in kotor and kotor but really it only changed the final scene not the game in general.

[theslug]

What is all this "canon" stuff people talk about? This some kind of crazy star wars lingo?

[Xard]

What is all this "canon" stuff people talk about?  This some kind of crazy star wars lingo?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Darth Mortis]

What is all this "canon" stuff people talk about?  This some kind of crazy star wars lingo?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Answer; a body of works that are considered to be "genuine" or "official" within a certain fictional universe. eg; In KOTOR you can play Revan as either male or female, lightside or darkside. The canon version of Revan was male lightside, so all referances to Revan in other starwars products would call Revan a he and use the lightside ending of the game as to what happened to the starforge.

[theslug]

Ok thats what i thought. I don't see what the big deal is then. If they went canon story line I wouldn't have a problem with that. All this speculation on story line is kind of meaningless as people pointed out anyways since they obviously wouldn't use anything we put forward. I mean they've had years to think this stuff over i'm sure they will have a nice way to tie in everything without totally ruining the story, they are professional after all.

[Plano Skywalker]

Ok thats what i thought.  I don't see what the big deal is then.  If they went canon story line I wouldn't have a problem with that.  All this speculation on story line is kind of meaningless as people pointed out anyways since they obviously wouldn't use anything we put forward.  I mean they've had years to think this stuff over i'm sure they will have a nice way to tie in everything without totally ruining the story, they are professional after all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No matter what they do, they will tick some people off...but the worst thing they can do is "cut and run" (to a different story).....that would be supercheap.

[Guest The Architect]

Wow i just read all that stuff and that sounds really solid and probably something they could do.  So I'd like to extend a hearty thanks **** for ruining the entire plot for the game I've been waiting for so long for.  jk but seriously thats some serious investigating you've gone through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

:D

 

As I've said, the devs will use their own ideas. I didn't want to post that ultra long post explaining how I'd bring Revan and the Exile back in KotOR III, but I wanted to prove that it can be done, without having to go canon, which would suck IMO.

 

Architect,

 

You do have some good ideas there.  I especially like the bit about Revan's mask...I would like to see that developed in K3....it might also explain Nihilius's mask.

 

However, I don't see LS (redeemed) Revan using a "Force sucker" like Nihilius to wipe out entire worlds.  That is something pre-redemption Revan might have done but I don't think it is consistent with the LS ending of K1.  (I do want a lot more backstory into Revan's ties with the 3 big bads of K2....that needs to be really fleshed out in-game).

 

So, if I am correct that your story idea is not consistent with redeemed Revan, then we have 2 Yellow Brick Roads which is something they have not done yet and, unless they go to 2 shrinkwraps (KOTOR: Blue and KOTOR: Red, for instance), I doubt we will see 2 different story progressions in these games.  No, I'm afraid DS will be just another frustrated ANTI-HERO in K3.

 

And, as far as allowing for every possible contigency (DSF Revan kills Carth on the Star Forge), I would much rather the devs spend their time giving us an NPC pool that is larger than the max ship compliment.  That way, we can have some meaningful choices in K3 that affect the quality and replayability of K3.

 

Imagine dialogue influence that takes into account real consequences:

"keep talking like that and you are off this boat!".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, but the way I see it, since Revan

Edited January 6, 2007 by The Architect

[theslug]

TO be honest I really like your posts since they are really well thought out and not filled with a ton of errors. If you can, can you post some links to your stories unless those were the ones you already linked a page back or so. I need something kotor to occupy my time.

[Plano Skywalker]

wow, Architect, that does seem like a really good fan fiction but it just seems too complicated for a game. and, it does, essentially, nullify LS Revan and LS Exile endings of K1 and K2.

 

I realize Revan was "brainwashed" but still, he had plenty of choices after that time to decice what side he was on. LS Revan at the end of K1 is *Revan's* choice, not just the result of the brainwashing.

 

also, it minimizes the significance of the True Sith and basically makes Revan the Big Bad. My Revan is LS and I don't particularly want him to be the Big Bad. Plus, it would seem that such a role amounts to fan service.

 

K2 established that the True Sith are the Big Bads...having another Nihilius out there means the True Sith don't have a chance......that is not the direction I want it to go in.

 

Revan has to play some significant role in K3, no question, but K3 is ultimately about the True Sith....and they, more than anyone else, have been "playing both sides".