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Bush changes justification for invasion of Iraq...


Judge Hades

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"Willy instincts"? ;)

 

Yeah it was supposed to only have one "L".... i.e.

 

"wil-y  /wa-li/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wahy-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation"

 

"

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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"Willy instincts"? :lol:

 

Yeah it was supposed to only have one "L".... i.e.

 

"wil-y  /wa-li/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wahy-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation"

 

"

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

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"The primary reason"

 

Key word is primary. that implies that more than one reason given for the invasion which means the whole point of the article is m isleading at best, and a flatout lie at worst. There has been no change for the jsutifctaion of the invasion as there were multiple justifications given for it.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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They collected data all over iraq (not just baghdad) and gave the results back. Its statistics, its how science works

 

science is statistics, its getting as much data as possible and coming up with the best conclusion possible with what knowledge we have.

 

I'd be careful saying stuff like this. You might make some scientists angry.

How so?

Always outnumbered, never out gunned!

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"Willy instincts"? :*

 

Yeah it was supposed to only have one "L".... i.e.

 

"wil-y  /wa-li/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wahy-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation"

 

"

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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"The primary reason"

 

Key word is primary. that implies that more than one reason given for the invasion which means the whole point of the article is m isleading at best, and a flatout lie at worst. There has been no change for the jsutifctaion of the invasion as there were multiple justifications given for it.

 

Sorry, but I don't see any justification for attacking Iraq. No WMDs. No connections to Al Qaeda. A very much contained regime. Saddam was no threat to the US or any other nation when we invaded.

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They collected data all over iraq (not just baghdad) and gave the results back. Its statistics, its how science works

 

science is statistics, its getting as much data as possible and coming up with the best conclusion possible with what knowledge we have.

 

I'd be careful saying stuff like this. You might make some scientists angry.

How so?

 

 

Because science is not just statistics. Especially when the term statistics by itself generally refers to descriptive statistics, as well as probability theory.

 

Statistics is exceptionally common in the social sciences. Despite the social sciences' best efforts to be recognized as scientific, there is still way too much introspection into those statistics that the social sciences will probably always have the stigma of never truly being scientific.

 

It's very easy to generate statistics, even with proper standard deviations, expected values, and variability taken into account. But that doesn't necessarily mean you can conclude anything about those statistics.

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"Sorry, but I don't see any justification for attacking Iraq. No WMDs. No connections to Al Qaeda. A very much contained regime. Saddam was no threat to the US or any other nation when we invaded."

 

Your opinion (and mine) are irrelevant. This thread was made to attack a 'change to Bush's justification for the invasion'. However, it has been proven that there has always been more than one justification for the invasion given by Bush. That's why this thread and the article linked is foolish.

 

Game over.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I;m not easily offended and respect peoples opinions...

 

You've come to the wrong forum. Only polarized, obstinate, highly temperamental, and closed-minded members here.

 

Well, I went through the whole signing up process and everything and since it seems theres a lack of anti-inflamatory statements, it seems like i have found my niche.... Plus you guys will need someone to butt heads with that wont get mad AND TYPE IN ALL CAPS (cause that makes people listen more!)

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A horrible tyrant's grasp on an entire nation is no more and with justice hoepfully coming soon on his head; good came out of this!

 

As much as you may think so Volourn those things and more did not justify our killings which were not immediately necessary for our self defense.

 

If you think that we should play calculus with lives then perhaps you believe that it makes sense to submit healthy people for sacrifice so that many others can gain new life from use of their organs.

 

Where would you like to stop this calculus of killing for good?

 

Not to mention that we have not been appointed by God to judge and dispense "justice" as we see fit and at the expense of those we choose to sacrifice.

Edited by Colrom

As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good.

If you would destroy evil, do good.

 

Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God.

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A horrible tyrant's grasp on an entire nation is no more and with justice hoepfully coming soon on his head; good came out of this!

 

I'll give you this.

 

Since evil cannot be perfected it is only right that some good come of it.

Edited by Colrom

As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good.

If you would destroy evil, do good.

 

Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God.

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"He was no threat to his neighbors."

 

Tell that to Iran, and Kuwait.

 

 

"ot to mention that we have not been appointed by God to judge and dispense "justice" as we fit and at the expense of those we choose to sacrifice."

 

Since when would I care what a mass murderer thinks about stuff like this?

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Colrom *was* rude, but that does not destroy his argument entirely.

 

I have every respect for those who volunteer to do something I don't foresee myself having the courage to do; and even if I do this does not make them, individually, any less salutory. And with all that respect in mind, I believe that a soldier's perspective has great value in a discussion about any war thanks to information and perspective only they can offer; but that is exactly and only that. That should not mean a soldier's perspective influences as emotionally in such judgments, or they have more bearing on a principally political matter than anybody eldse's. And I don't believe letsryde wanted to exert that sort of unfair influence, but rather simply express what she felt from her situation.

 

Is us saying the war was wrong, or the war should have never happened, detrimental to soldiers? I don't believe so. If we say 'well it's our soldiers in there now, we have to support the war' then it is a logical fallacy, it is unfair on the soldiers and it is dangerous. To say that a death sentence shouold never have happened, and to oppose the judge's ruling, is not to trivialise or undermine the sufferings of that dead innocent; to say that Katrina aid efforts were ill coordinated (or whatever disaster) is no disrespect to the individual people's efforts at aid. It is a comment aimed at the managerial level and is perfectly valid and respectful.

 

That said, let me enter the current discussion at hand. We've got the death toll coming up again. Does it really matter if it's 600,000 or 200,000? Sadly, it does to the wider world - but should we individually let that matter? Should even three thousand innocent Iraqis have died? No. And the question is not even 'it's better than people dying under Saddam's regime'. The moment a powerful nation such as America illegally, callously and without wide international backing forcibly destroy a nation's sovereignty we allow ourselves to be faced with a powerful conundrum; will we become like those who are so blind in their own sense of right or wrong we seek to superimpose it on everyone else - will we become like fanatical evangelists or madmen, or cultists or whatnot, but with more power? Or will we become theoretically consistent but practically intolerable, allowing what we see as depravities to continue? Both are bad choices; but for the US, the choice was made without public consent, and for the world, without any consent.

 

Why, yes, George Bush was diplomatically elected. But in 2000 he was saying things on TV like "nation-building is wrong", US shouldnt meddle in other nations' affairs, and pretty much the antithesis of everything he said after 9/11. That's the man, who piggybacked the Mission of God stuff, americans voted. They could not have counted for what happened after 9/11, a slow, creeping development of military involvement. Nothing was sudden. I cried expletives as soon as Bush's first speeches regarding the specific elimination of Al Qaeda were expressed, and feared the destruction of at least one nation's infrastructure under Ameircan 'liberator' troops. Not all American troops are bad; perhaps none are bad; and certainly by our standards they've done a lot of good as well as bad. American troops, mostly, are not bloodthirsty or 'evil'. But my point stands, and I hope we can see that. People who cried foul such as I so early were seen as simply over-reacting, and perhaps that might have been true had things happenedd a little differently. As it is now... would Bush have been elected in 2003, if he advocated war on Iraq even without UN sanctions? I doubt it. So who's really in control in this democratic world we claim to build in Iraq?

 

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa...... hang on there a minute.... whoever said i was a girl Tigranes? Did i just like, come of feminine or was there a certian way i said something cause' i mean, i'm like, a guy and even though i had the typo in there a few posts back that said "willy" instead of "WILY" i can tell you with out a doubt that i'm a dude.... alright :) , i mean, were still cool and all, right? Just wanted to clear that up..... Just sitting here, doing man things, like hanging sheet rock and checking my recedeing hair line... yup

 

"The all male" Jessie Schafer

 

p.s. 100% Dude

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"He was no threat to his neighbors."

 

Tell that to Iran, and Kuwait.

 

 

"ot to mention that we have not been appointed by God to judge and dispense "justice" as we fit and at the expense of those we choose to sacrifice."

 

Since when would I care what a mass murderer thinks about stuff like this?

 

God is a mass murderer?

As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good.

If you would destroy evil, do good.

 

Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God.

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Hm. If I referred to letsryde as feminine, dunno. I must have mixed something up there. :thumbsup:

 

Anyway, I would hope that's not the only response to come out of that post. I know some of you are capable of reading long posts. *looks at meta*

 

I won't even bother to respond to Volo, because Volo is awesome and I will lose.

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"He was no threat to his neighbors."

 

Tell that to Iran, and Kuwait.

 

 

"ot to mention that we have not been appointed by God to judge and dispense "justice" as we fit and at the expense of those we choose to sacrifice."

 

Since when would I care what a mass murderer thinks about stuff like this?

 

God is a mass murderer?

 

Yeah, duh!.... You didnt see that special on Americas Most Wanted.... Man, some people need to watch T.V. more or switch the channel to some besides MTV or whatever kids are watching today :thumbsup:

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