Unkillable enemies discussion

[Pidesco]

Except for the super secret magical one, that only Nines knows about.

[Fenghuang]

There's only one Observatory in Griffith Park.

[Atreides]

I'm a fan of fun. Ain't no traditions that don't make sense gonna get in the way of my fun.

[Slowtrain]

I'm going to agree with Hades here, although for different reasons. Although the difficulty of fighting a werewolf is well-hyped throughout the game, the fact that the werewolf is unkilliable through normal means is incosistent with the rest of the game. It became obvious pretty quickly that there was a trick to defeating it, but I think "trick" bosses are cheeseball game design. In any game.

 

Here I am playing through a game, killing everything, and then suddenly I encounter the magical boss who has to be shot once in one eye with a laser, once in the other eye with a laser, then have a rocker fired through a trans-dimensional openign in its stomach (which is onlyopen for a short period), then wash-rinse-repeat 2 more times. Talk about completely arbitrary game design. Give me a freaking break.

 

The werewolf wasn't quite as bad as that example (Hello Half-Life!), but the principle is the same, to me. If you set your rules as conflict resolution through massive firepower, you don't arbitrarily change those rules simply to confuse the gamer.

 

What would have worked in bloodlines is if you had meet a series of werewolfs throughout the game, maybe 4 or 5, enough to establish a consistency anyway, starting with a very wimpy one and getting progressively stronger. Along with proper in-game explanations on how to fight werewolfs, that would give the gamer a chance to learn the "rules" for werewolf fighting. AT that point it becomes an interesting puzzle as you face stronger and strionger werewolfs and have tofigure out howto use the environemtn to defeat each one. Or something.

 

ANyway, I thought it was a copout on the part of the devs.

[Judge Hades]

We didn't know that at the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Irrelevant.

[Judge Hades]

I'm a fan of fun.  Ain't no traditions that don't make sense gonna get in the way of my fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So am I. Going against a near invincible boss with only one tricky way to kill is not fun. That would be like me, in one of my PnP games, decide arbitrarily make the dragon the party is suppose to defeat only killable if it is scratched by the claw of a 20th level kobold sorcerer suffering from mummy rot. Otherwise the dragon is invincible and kills their party of 15th to 18th level characters in 2 to 3 rounds.

 

Oh yeah, that sounds like a crapload of fun.

[Lare Kikkeli]

pnp is different from a CRPG.

[Atreides]

Maybe the werewolf was packing awesome armour or occult items.

[CoM_Solaufein]

I did not like the idea that the werewolf could not be killed like any other character in the game. At least you could run away or crush it the doors.

 

The only character that should be unkillable in a game is a vital npc that is part of the story or a god.

[Volourn]

"The only character that should be unkillable in a game is a vital npc that is part of the story"

 

Disagree. In an ideal world, no NPC should be that 'vital' in a RPG.

[Hassat Hunter]

So am I.  Going against a near invincible boss with only one tricky way to kill is not fun.

 

BG2 does it all the time...

 

Do you HATE that game too?

[mkreku]

Being pissy about a game because you're anal about some rules you've learnt from a book is just.. pathetic. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Play the game, have fun and adjust to the situation. If you feel the design is cheesy, fine, but going mental because something doesn't follow strict rules made up by some other geek in another time and place is just so sad. Remember, these aren't laws of physics that are being broken. They're irrelevant nerd rules.

[Volourn]

"BG2 does it all the time..."

 

Really? ALL THE TIME?

[Slowtrain]

Being pissy about a game because you're anal about some rules you've learnt from a book is just.. pathetic. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Play the game, have fun and adjust to the situation. If you feel the design is cheesy, fine, but going mental because something doesn't follow strict rules made up by some other geek in another time and place is just so sad. Remember, these aren't laws of physics that are being broken. They're irrelevant nerd rules.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Rules learned in a book have nothing to do with questionable game design decisions.

 

Fantasy games rely on an internal consistency to keep the pieces from flying apart. SInce we are dealing with a entirely made up world where the rules of "real life" may or may not apply, we have to rely on learning quickly what "rules" the fantasy gameworld is playing by. Once those rules are established (ie causing physical damage to a being kills them), a developer has to be careful about breaking them. Not that the rules can't be broken, they just have to be broken carefully. Bloodlines is very careful about explaining what damage is and how it works, normal damage, aggravated damage, firearms, slashing etc and so forth, then it throws it all out the window for a single encounter.

 

In the case of Bloodlines it is not a gamekiller, but it certainly left a bad enough taste in my mouth.

[Dark_Raven]

OMG! What is happening to my beloved Bloodlines thread??

[Dark_Raven]

So am I.  Going against a near invincible boss with only one tricky way to kill is not fun.

 

BG2 does it all the time...

 

Do you HATE that game too?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who was invincible?

[kirottu]

I don

[Dark_Raven]

I don

[kirottu]

I don

[Atreides]

Will the werewolf find you if you hide somewhere and use Obfuscate?

[Dark_Raven]

Will the werewolf find you if you hide somewhere and use Obfuscate?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would say yes since its stated that the werewolf is invulnerable to Disciples.

 

Plus it's a boss character and they can usually see you.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Dark_Raven

[Slowtrain]

If you

[kirottu]

If you

[Fenghuang]

"The only character that should be unkillable in a game is a vital npc that is part of the story"

 

Disagree. In an ideal world, no NPC should be that 'vital' in a RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed.

 

Will the werewolf find you if you hide somewhere and use Obfuscate?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would say yes since its stated that the werewolf is invulnerable to Disciples.

 

Plus it's a boss character and they can usually see you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Werewolf hits Disciples in their weakspot for MASSIVE DAMAGE

 

Edited September 7, 2006 by Fenghuang

[Hell Kitty]

I don

Edited September 7, 2006 by Hell Kitty