Parents place in Childrens' sports

[Checkpoint]

1. "European Football fan" doesn't equal "hooligan"

 

2. Hooligans hardly "do nothing more than cheer and yell encouragement to the team", nor do "European Football fans"

 

3. The whole tone of it sounds derogatory and also self-contradicting, which makes it sound as if it didn't come out the way it was meant to

[metadigital]

I thought the point of any game wasn't to win, but to take part and do your best.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is why you fail.

[SteveThaiBinh]

1. "European Football fan" doesn't equal "hooligan"

 

2. Hooligans hardly "do nothing more than cheer and yell encouragement to the team", nor do "European Football fans"

 

3. The whole tone of it sounds derogatory and also self-contradicting, which makes it sound as if it didn't come out the way it was meant to

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt Cantousent has a detailed knowledge of European footballs fans and hooligans (and the terminology of the subject), any more than I knew what a Nascar Dad was before reading this very informative thread.

I thought the point of any game wasn't to win, but to take part and do your best.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is why you fail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? I was wondering...

 

Or a more starwarsy retort, perhaps?

 

...and why I am more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

[Calax]

In america winning is the the only thing... you don't win you aren't successful.

 

Especially amongst males... you win you make sweet sweet love to a pack of groupies and continue your genetic line.

 

Who doesn't want that ?

Edited August 29, 2006 by Calax

[metadigital]

Spelmar is particularly cross with your lack of vocabulary, Calax:

penultimate

n adjective last but one.

 

ORIGIN

C17: from Latin paenultimus, from paene 'almost' + ultimus 'last', on the pattern of ultimate.

[Cantousent]

1. "European Football fan" doesn't equal "hooligan"

 

2. Hooligans hardly "do nothing more than cheer and yell encouragement to the team", nor do "European Football fans"

 

3. The whole tone of it sounds derogatory and also self-contradicting, which makes it sound as if it didn't come out the way it was meant to

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh, I was just thinking that, if we're going to use terms like Nascar dads and Soccer moms, maybe we could spread the offense to other parts of the world. You've got to watch out. If someone decides to ridicule your passtime, then you might have a wikipedia entry to support the obnoxious behavior.

 

So, I suppse we can agree that all parents who cheer at their child's soccer game are trying to usurp the coach? Not all dads who watch nascar are ignorant, knee jerking, bigots? Not all moms who take kids to soccer games do so in a mini-van? Not all Europeans who enjoy watching "football" trample each other to death?

 

I find the term nascar dad particularly offensive. So, I'll retract my comment about European Football fans. After all, two wrongs can't make a right? Right?

 

As for sporting events in general, I'd like to say that I think there is value in sports other than winning the game. Trying hard and doing your best are an important part of sports. Bring a good sport and working as a team and learning from your mistakes are all worthy skills that sports help to inculcate into participants of all ages.

 

Just as the European Football fans must bear the reputation that plagues the sport, so must Nascar dads and Soccer moms and parents at any sporting event live with the reputation they've received because of stereotypes and prejudices.

 

The point remains, however, that a big part of sports, undoubtedly the single biggest part of sports, is competition. It's impossible to remove. It is unwise to try.

[Calax]

the problem is when compitition is taught to you for every facet of your life (from my dad could beat up your dad to "my sociology project will get the highest score!" to "I've slept with the most/least people!" to "I've hailed mary 1000000000 times!" to :headbutt: to Killing your best friend for sleeping with your wife and thus achieving a 'victory'"

[Cantousent]

Yes, but those are unhealthy tendencies. Victory is the central goal in sports. However, most folks probably wouldn't consider sleeping with their best friends wives as victorious. Speaking as someone who is married and has a lot of friends with wives, that's not how you look at it unless you're not a very good friend anyhow. Sleeping with someone for the "victory" value is a ridiculous notion to most mature adults. Sure, there are a lot of bad apples out there, but so what?

 

Most of all, because some folks take sports or the idea of competing to outlandish extremes is a poor argument at any rate.

 

...Or are you saying that we should ban video games because of the extreme cases found in news reports?

 

striving and competing is part of life. Sports can be an effective way to teach participants a healthier way to view competition.

[SteveThaiBinh]

the problem is when compitition is taught to you for every facet of your life (from my dad could beat up your dad to "my sociology project will get the highest score!" to "I've slept with the most/least people!" to "I've hailed mary 1000000000 times!" to :headbutt: to Killing your best friend for sleeping with your wife and thus achieving a 'victory'"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some people are naturally competitive, and that's no bad thing. I guess the best that schools can do is help them develop a sense of fairplay to go along with it, and a properly-run sports programme can do that.

 

Some aren't all that competitive by nature, but they'll become competitive if that's what is expected of them. Kids need to learn how to operate in a competitive environment even if it's not to their tastes, if that's the prevailing culture in their part of the world. I agree that they don't need to have it rammed down their throats constantly, though, and I've seen the consequences of that at first hand. It's about finding a balance that works.

[Judge Hades]

When I was younger I joined a little league team. Lets just say I learned to hate competitive sports and not bothered with it since.

[Dark Moth]

Translation: "I sucked at it bigtime."

[Judge Hades]

Yes, and I was constantly hounded by other players and the parents of the other players. They all said that I was the reason why they couldn't win a game so I quit. They still lost every single game they played and I laughed at them.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Colrom]

I would prefer that children's sports be organized and run by the children themselves.

 

"Hey Mom, Can I go out play baseball? OK, Ill be home before dark. Thanks. Bye."

 

Gather players at friends houses.

 

Duke out teams.

 

Play with soft rubber ball. Lots of singles and doubles and few HRs.

 

Winning 34-17.

 

Lose soft rubber ball and switch to tennis ball. Lots of HRs and few singles and doubles. :D

 

Play some more.

 

Win 38-24. (w00t)

 

Go home.

 

No parents. No coaches. No problem.

[Calax]

I would prefer that children's sports be organized and run by the children themselves.

 

"Hey Mom, Can I go out play baseball? OK, Ill be home before dark. Thanks.  Bye."

 

Gather players at friends houses.

 

Duke out teams.

 

Play with soft rubber ball. Lots of singles and doubles and few HRs.   

 

Winning 34-17.

 

Lose soft rubber ball and switch to tennis ball. Lots of HRs and few singles and doubles.  :D

 

Play some more.

 

Win 38-24.  (w00t)

 

Go home.

 

No parents. No coaches. No problem. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but you have to play CORRECTLY! (watches parents getting 200 dollar an hour coaches for their seven year olds.)

[Tigranes]

Colrom has the idea. I know that adult-organised little leagues and so on give children a great opportunity to have a great envirnment and lots of other people to play sports with - and it's great if you live in some apartment block where the nearest park is 50 miles away or you don't have enough friends that want to play sports. But if you do have the option, IMO it's better for the children to play on their own initiative. It can fall apart, they may not play properly, they might fight or get hurt, but it's the way to go and it's the way I played. As part of the tweens group I honestly think that many people in this generation's idea of 'taking initiative' in anything is looking up what program they can join, or what professional they can ask help for.

[Cantousent]

Well, I agree that playing outside with friends is the best bet. Organized sports are still a good, though. In my opinion, kids should get most of their exercise in regular outdoor play, but school physical education and organized sports are part of the equation as well.

 

By the time kids reach highschool, there's a good number of them who want to participate in organized sports and I think it's good that the opportunity exists for them to do so.

 

What I'd really like, and this won't be the case in the foreseeable future, is a better variety of organized sports with decent funding. Problem is, someone has to foot the bill.

[Dark Moth]

I would prefer that children's sports be organized and run by the children themselves.

 

"Hey Mom, Can I go out play baseball? OK, Ill be home before dark. Thanks.  Bye."

 

Gather players at friends houses.

 

Duke out teams.

 

Play with soft rubber ball. Lots of singles and doubles and few HRs.   

 

Winning 34-17.

 

Lose soft rubber ball and switch to tennis ball. Lots of HRs and few singles and doubles.  :D

 

Play some more.

 

Win 38-24.  (w00t)

 

Go home.

 

No parents. No coaches. No problem. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spoken like someone who's never seen children play by themselves before.

[Checkpoint]

Far cry from small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts. Rush goalie. Two at the back, three in the middle, four up front, one's gone home for his tea. Beans on toast? Possibly, don't quote me on that. Marvellous.

[WinterSun]

Nice.

[Checkpoint]

Grrreat.

[metadigital]

the problem is when compitition is taught to you for every facet of your life (from my dad could beat up your dad to "my sociology project will get the highest score!" to "I've slept with the most/least people!" to "I've hailed mary 1000000000 times!" to :headbutt: to Killing your best friend for sleeping with your wife and thus achieving a 'victory'"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

 

True competition is with oneself: the elite athlete wants to achieve a PB: a personal best. Just winning is not enough, being the best you can be is the goal.

[Checkpoint]

Not entirely true. A lot of athletes lose focus, determination and inspiration when they become virtually unbeatable. That's when they switch to something else for a new challenge that doesn't involve sure-fire victories. Note that I'm not saying you're entirely wrong either (Michael Johnson springs to mind), but too much success has halted the progress and will to win for many athletes in many sports.

[Musopticon?]

Except the Williams' sisters. I don't get them, where's the fun in winning all the time.

[metadigital]

Not entirely true. A lot of athletes lose focus, determination and inspiration when they become virtually unbeatable. That's when they switch to something else for a new challenge that doesn't involve sure-fire victories. Note that I'm not saying you're entirely wrong either (Michael Johnson springs to mind), but too much success has halted the progress and will to win for many athletes in many sports.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't say athletes were good at competition, I said that true competition is with oneself. Buddhist style.

 

PS I think you mean Michael Jordon?

[Musopticon?]

I think you mean Michael Jordan.