blingualism...

[Magena]

I received this in an email the other day, and figured that I would see what others think of this.

 

>Our granddaughter in California was turned down for a teaching job,

>because she only had one yr. of Spanish. She got a job at a private

>school. She now teaches in Rancho Cucamonga, second grade.

>

>Had an interesting conversation with a lady of Hispanic origin last

>week. She told me that she planned to come down to St. Mary's and get a

>job in Admissions (where I work). When I pointed out that we didn't

>have any openings, she advised me that "soon" current employees will

>have to be fired to hire bi-lingual employees. According to this lady,

>the Spanish-speaking people of the US are going to demand that all

>public facilities like hospitals, courthouses, etc. - be staffed by

>people who read, speak and comprehend Spanish.

>

>We hear about the silent majority, but I think we are going to have to

>speak up or find ourselves a conquered country. That would be an

>interesting historical note - greatest land in the world conquered by

>Mexico without ever firing a shot! Think about it.

>Petition to require citizenship to be eligible for social services in

>the United States. No amnesty and no free services for illegal

>immigrants.

>

>I the undersigned below, agree that we need to keep English as our

>primary language and those who live in our country need to learn

>ENGLISH, not make the US citizens conform to Spanish.

 

 

Personally, I think that this is going too far, to an extent... like the part where people who have been in the jobs for years being fired suddenly. This to me makes it strange, since the California Constitution states in Article 3, Section 6 that English is the official language of California.

[metadigital]

Sounds like a bit of race-hate propaganda to me, based on conjecture: not much better than a spam chain letter.

[Magena]

yeah, I was thinking that too.

 

With all the race/hate going on in the US these days, I do wonder though how much of it might start from spam propoganda and then spin off to get worse and worse.

 

I've come to realize that with most of the civil rights issues, that there is more incorrect info being spread around that correct info.

[Colrom]

Do a google on "Had an interesting conversation with a lady of Hispanic origin last

>week. She told me that she planned to come down to St. Mary's".

 

You will get lots of hits.

 

Part of a chain mail hate mongering program.

 

Usually can't chase them back.

 

But, using the NSA's network analysis capabilities - (Excuse me, can I borrow that for a minute or two? Heh.) - we might figure out what political persuassion it is circulating in. Useful political info there.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Colrom

[Hurlshort]

I've been a teacher in California for a good number of years, and this is terribly inaccurate. First off, what was this granddaughter looking to teach? Where was she looking to do so? If she is teaching early grades in a predominantly latino district, she will need to know Spanish in order to teach the students English. That's not a requirement, it's just a fact of life.

 

Secondly, all new teachers are required to take ESL courses, which stands for English as a Second Language. If older teachers do not take part in the necessary coursework to clear their credential, then they can lose it. It's not a great system, but the course is a 7-day one that can be done over the summer, and most school districts cover the cost. ESL courses do not require knowledge of Spanish, it actually covers any language. Many of my students speak Chinese and Korean. The classes teach you how to deal with ELL, or English Language Learners.

 

Some of the teachers I work with refuse to do this, but they are very close to retirement as is. They recieved a waiver for this year and plan on retiring at the end of the year. Qualified teachers don't need to speak Spanish to get a job in California. 60% of the workforce will be leaving teaching in the next 5 years, through either retirement or choice, so jobs are plentiful.

 

This whole email smells very much like an anti-immigration push. The fact is the US is built on immigrants. English is not our "official" language because we are defined as Americans by so much more. California has always been a melting pot of many languages and cultures, and it belongs to Mexican Americans as much as anyone else.

[Atreides]

Que?

[Calax]

All I have to say is I've picked up more spanish in my six months as a McDonalds Employee than I ever did in highschool. Also most of the necessity for bilingualism is for the southern cali folks. Up north there are communities of latino's but it's much more "white" (not trying to be racist).

 

My mother didn't have to be bilingual for her teaching credential back in the day (she taught at a skills center for those who didn't have a GED or equivalent). And it ultimatly is quite silly to force people to learn a language that they might not ever use... (thinks about a poor teacher in Michigan who had to learn spanish in the wierd white supremesist universe of the email)

[213374U]

You can't stop it, suckers. <insert sardonic laugher>

[Atreides]

Guess Europe'll find it useful to start picking up Arabic to help the immigrants integrate better too.

[Azarkon]

You can't stop it, suckers. <insert sardonic laugher>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then how did most of the Hispanics currently in the US, the majority of whom aren't Spaniards at all (or at least, to begin with), take up Spanish, transplanted from half-a-world away, as their official language? The great irony of the situation is, of course, that Spain, in its heydays as a fading European nation, would yet have its linguistic legacy carried on in the Americas, as a lasting influence of its culture long after it itself might disintegrate. What Spain, as a nation, could never achieve in California, its force as an immigrant language seemingly will.

 

It's always possible to force people to assimilate. The only question is how far you're willing to go. History is overly focused on the armies and the great leaders, and too little focused on the cultural memes that will define the future of humankind.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Azarkon

[Hurlshort]

We should be pushing to have more languages learned, not less. I remember hearing that most students in Europe know 2-3 languages by the time they reach High School (or whatever it's called in Europe.) Most of my students handle multiple languages easily.

 

Also, everybody needs to understand that schools still teach English. As much as everyone loves to bash public education in America, I've never seen a child come up through the system without learning basic English, no matter what they hear at home. This whole "Spanish threat" is just another attempt at raising fears over immigration.

 

Do people think this is a new issue? The US has been a beacon of immigration for centuries. There is this fear that American Culture will be wiped out by Mexicans, but we've had huge influxes of people before. Should we wipe out Little Italy? America's culture is many cultures COMBINED. It's also not stagnant, it's ever-changing. People seriously need to look at our past before judging what's best for the future.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Hurlshot

[Fenghuang]

I only know English and a smattering of Spanish (read useless remnants of highschool Spanish).

 

I want to learn more Spanish and pick up Mandarin but I just don't have the ding dang time right now.

[Musopticon?]

Swedish, English, some French, some Danish(thank you Obsidian), less German and a smattering of Japanese. Yeah, and Attican Greek along with a smattering of Latin. I get by fine. :]

 

How are language studies in American school system? Up here we have to learn Swedish and a second European language, English(or German) for most people. A lot of folks also take a few years of French, like me. How is it over the pond?

[Fenghuang]

Two years of a foreign language, usually French, German, or Spanish.

 

This sounds good in theory, but two years of a foreign language in highschool is like one semester in a college and all you really do is become briefly accquainted with the way the language works.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Two years is nothing, certainly not enough to actually learn how to speak it.

[Krookie]

The problem is American schools start teaching languages to late. I started Spanish in 7th grade. I mean, we had "basic" spanish from 3rd grade on, but all we did there was learn how to say "hello", "goodbye",

"how are you" and the like.

 

By the time most European kids are in 7th grade, there starting their 3rd language. I plan on taking Latin at some point during my highschool years, but at this rate, juggling spanish and English is hard enough.

[Petay]

All I have to say is I've picked up more spanish in my six months as a McDonalds Employee than I ever did in highschool. Also most of the necessity for bilingualism is for the southern cali folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That settles it then! Get rid of all the non-Spanish speaking employees in SoCal and it's done!

 

Seriously, i agree with Hurlshot in that that is pretty inaccurate, it's pretty clearly jsut a crappy chain mail letter, there wouldn't even be enough bilingual employees to take up half the jobs lost from not being bilingual

[SteveThaiBinh]

Bilingualism's a fascinating subject.

 

Countries all over the world are afraid that English will displace their own languages (due to US cultural exports like Hollywood), yet some Americans are afraid that English is in danger in the US. :D

 

Calax, I think it's a good idea for every student to learn another language at school, even if they live somewhere where virtually nothing but English is spoken. Learning how another language works can be part of learning how other people might think, and learning to accept that other people see the world differently to yourself. If not Spanish, then French, Chinese or Ancient Greek, maybe? Fenghuang is right that studying a language at school often doesn't lead to very much real proficiency in the language, but there are other benefits, plus the student may learn to love it and continue at later stages in their schooling.

 

The email at the start of this topic talks about English-only instruction because that seems to be what's good for English-speakers and the English-speaking government, but it's not necessarily what's best for the child. For the child, I think it's best to become bilingual in English and her mother tongue. If she's from a middle-class background or a culture where academic education is highly valued, she might survive being dumped suddenly into an English-only environment, because she gets a lot of family support. Otherwise, she's more likely to sink than swim, get alienated from school and learning entirely, and head off for a brief and unhappy life of delinquency and crime. Well, maybe not that bad except in the most extreme cases, but can you imagine enjoying school and getting much out of it when you can barely understand what's going on? If schools provide some instruction in her mother tongue and extra support so she can make quick progress with her English, the results are probably better for everyone.

[Krookie]

Calax, I think it's a good idea for every student to learn another language at school, even if they live somewhere where virtually nothing but English is spoken.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The problem with that is kids don't show an intrest in learning something that they don't think they'll use. If my school taught Korean, I would definetly be a bit more enthusiastic when it comes to learning a new language. We have around 5 kids in our grade that speak fluent Spanish, but they also speak English just as well. I've never been in a situation where I've needed to speak Spanish. I probably will, at some point, but by then it'll be to late because if I'm not enjoying it now, I probably won't remember half the stuff later on.

[Baley]

I'm studying English, German, Italian and Latin. I know a little Romanian, sure, but I'm all rough 'round the edges of Linguistic dexterity. And my grammar blows arctic whale chunks|wee-wee.

[Petay]

Aren't you from Romania Baley?

 

Unless thats the mysterious thing one calls sarcasm right there.

[Fenghuang]

The solution to becoming bilingual in America is to become a highschool teenager in a latino community just outside Watts.

 

It worked for my dad.

 

Also, blingualism is a fascinating subject as well.

 

[metadigital]

The death of English was preceded by the breathtakingly amazing idea by the weirdo hippies in the seventies that the whole language learning process needed to be revamped (not a bad idea in and of itself) by the removal of grammar and general sentence awareness/analysis from the syllabus (moronic).

 

Add to this making languages (especially latin) elective, and the myopic and parochial view that English is/was THE dominant global language, and you see the result today. (Aside: English is the de facto language of science, currently, though, say, mathematics is a language unto itself.)

 

I am not particularly concerned. The Spanish of meso-America is already diverging from the Iberian Peninsula, just as the English spoken in Singapore and German in Switzerland are diverging from their cognate forebears (as they must): nothing is constant except change.

 

Just as the language of ancient Latium has diverged into modern French, Spanish, Portuguese and (with a broad Germanic base) English.

 

Chinese is also an umbrella group of about 6-12 regional dialects, too, not to mention the similarity between the double-byte character sets.

 

That actually represents an interesting creative tension: the incompatible alphabetical versus pictographical underpinnings (also Arabic is similar, too ... and there is a strong and growing user base there, too).

[Blarghagh]

I don't see why people don't just start teaching english to the entire world.

 

(And english isn't even my first language.)

[SteveThaiBinh]

I don't see why people don't just start teaching english to the entire world.

I am - well, not to the entire world, just one bit.

 

Foreign language teaching and learning is a vast private industry and methodologies, traditional or progressive, don't survive long if they don't lead to results. It all depends what kind of results you're looking for.