Remember PhysX?

angshuman · August 25, 2006

Yes, there is a part that is done in the hardware, but some of it is done in the code (in fact you can do occlusion queries in Direct3D9).

Anyway it was just a guess, I think here PhysX itself is at fault.

True, and I think so aswell.

You guys are probably right... but I just *can't* convince myself unless I see results showing exactly where the bottleneck lies. The Aegia folks have some really clever people with them (I know of at least one). It's hard for me to imagine that they would bring out a product that is not very good at doing exactly what it was designed to do. But then again, products like that Killer NIC come out time and again, and shatter all my delusions about Mankind's competence.

alanschu · August 25, 2006

Well, don't forget that the original GeForce wasn't very good at Hardware T&L either. In many cases you could still get faster performance by letting the processor deal with it.

I still think physics cards will eventually become popular.

I guess the big problem here is that the GeForce cards were still better at doing the rendering. I'm sure if the Voodoo was initially poorer than a CPU, the 3D accelerator craze would never have started off as strong as it did. Which is a definite disadvantage of the physics cards right now.

Calax · August 26, 2006

City of heroes supports Ageia PhyX.

metadigital · August 26, 2006

The problem with physics cards is that they're simply in alot of respects toned down GPU's, working through a PCI port, so naturally they're more on par in terms of power due to memory bandwidth as old PCI GFX cards surely!

(Don't quote me on that)

It's more likely we'll see GPU cards having PPU's on there aswell.

I've certainly read my fair share on hijacking GPU's to do collision detection information, a seperate PCI PPU seems fairly pointless to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope.

PPUs are different hardware. GPUs do a gazillion burst instructions on a texture (read-only, loads of bandwidth), whereas the PPU is a self-updating set of nested calculations (read/write, loads of bandwidth). Just because the GPU has loads more bandwidth (even several orders of magnitude more: the new ATi X1950 has DDR4 RAM, for example), it still isn't capable of completing the basic calculations PROPERLY.

$@\NightandtheShape/@$ · August 26, 2006

The problem with physics cards is that they're simply in alot of respects toned down GPU's, working through a PCI port, so naturally they're more on par in terms of power due to memory bandwidth as old PCI GFX cards surely!

(Don't quote me on that)

It's more likely we'll see GPU cards having PPU's on there aswell.

I've certainly read my fair share on hijacking GPU's to do collision detection information, a seperate PCI PPU seems fairly pointless to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope.

PPUs are different hardware. GPUs do a gazillion burst instructions on a texture (read-only, loads of bandwidth), whereas the PPU is a self-updating set of nested calculations (read/write, loads of bandwidth). Just because the GPU has loads more bandwidth (even several orders of magnitude more: the new ATi X1950 has DDR4 RAM, for example), it still isn't capable of completing the basic calculations PROPERLY.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way in which a GPU and PPU operate is naturally different, but it deals with similar data sure?

I will agree with you that a GPU alone cannot properly complete the required calculations (In some cases it can for example fluid dynamics) but it can aid the CPU in doing so quickly, thus in my eyes making a PPU pretty worthless(except for ease), and the addition of hardware to a GPU, a kinda GPU+PPU much more viable than an extra physics card.

Particle Physics and Collision Detection are very viable, but perhaps not better than on a physics card. I was indicating that I am more inclined to think that added functinality to GFX cards is a better solution, that is all.

As for the bottleneck, I genuinely felt and still feel that data transfer rate via the PCI slot the PPU is held in is causing a hold up and it is not the GFX card to blame, that is my first though and has no assumption of truth.

Edited August 26, 2006 by @\NightandtheShape/@

metadigital · August 26, 2006

Yeah, maybe the quad-core CPUs might make the PPU obsolete ... then again the PPU has to fight for PCI-e bandwidth: it might be a better performer if it were in a PCI-e(16).

Anyways, I think it is still too early to write the epitaph; who knows, AMD-ATi might buy Aegis, too, and make a killer daughterboard ... :ermm:

$@\NightandtheShape/@$ · August 26, 2006

Yeah, maybe the quad-core CPUs might make the PPU obsolete ... then again the PPU has to fight for PCI-e bandwidth: it might be a better performer if it were in a PCI-e(16).

Anyways, I think it is still too early to write the epitaph; who knows, AMD-ATi might buy Aegis, too, and make a killer daughterboard ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It certainly too easy to tell... I will say this, I do think physics is going to become as important as GFX cards are currently to the gaming industry, I'm currently wondering how viable it would be to use the Aegis technology for simulating a space game.

I'm right in thinking that the SDK supports software, aswell as hardware results.

Hassat Hunter · August 26, 2006

I have heard it referred to as UT3; not that I have played the vanilla games (not my cup of tea).

I am REALLY slow (I know) but I think the quarter just dropped.

They meant to say UE3 right? (As in Unreal Engine 3, which UT2K7 will use first)

alanschu · August 26, 2006

Most likely.

$@\NightandtheShape/@$ · August 27, 2006

Yeah, maybe the quad-core CPUs might make the PPU obsolete ... then again the PPU has to fight for PCI-e bandwidth: it might be a better performer if it were in a PCI-e(16).

Anyways, I think it is still too early to write the epitaph; who knows, AMD-ATi might buy Aegis, too, and make a killer daughterboard ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although DX 10 is supposed to use slack bandwidth on GFX cards to do physic calculation though I know very little about DX 10 at the moment.

metadigital · August 27, 2006

Unless they change the way the GPU works, as in feedback into the data to allow transformations on the data to ripple through it (i.e. gravity of objects affecting objects, not just a bajillion shadow calculations), then GPU calculations aren't going to help.

I have heard it referred to as UT3; not that I have played the vanilla games (not my cup of tea).

I am REALLY slow (I know) but I think the quarter just dropped.

They meant to say UE3 right? (As in Unreal Engine 3, which UT2K7 will use first)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That'd be it, yep.

$@\NightandtheShape/@$ · August 28, 2006

Unless they change the way the GPU works, as in feedback into the data to allow transformations on the data to ripple through it (i.e. gravity of objects affecting objects, not just a bajillion shadow calculations), then GPU calculations aren't going to help.

Just saying what I have read.

It won't be the same as a physics card, but it's a start.

Bokishi · August 28, 2006

PhysX was built mainly for cloth and fluids. I have to admit that it does justice to real-time cloth.

mkreku · November 8, 2006

:ermm:

ANYHOW.. it seems that Ageia just got a huge confidence boost recently:

Bioware (of all companies) has pledged support for the physics platform! And we thought it was dying..

Source: http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=2622

Go go Ageia!

kirottu · November 9, 2006

Interesting...

If Dragon Age has neat physics stuff thingies it might be worth buying.

Morgoth · November 9, 2006

Interesting...

If Dragon Age has neat physics stuff thingies it might be worth buying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nonsense. DA doesn't use the Eclipse-Engine, the EE is still in development by Bio's TAG, and will be used for future games. That excludes DA (DA engine) and ME (UE3) though.

Maybe they're gonna use it in JE2, making it a more kinetic experience thanks to PhysX. And that's just one thing you could do with a PPU. Dynamics (Hair. No not the ugly Polygon clusters - real Hair; volumetric clouds; Fluids; Real-Time deformations etc. can also enhance the look) can also be calculated via PPUs. :devil:

>_< GO BIO GO! :alien:

metadigital · November 12, 2006

It'll be the new Unreal Engine that kick starts PhysX, if anything does. :deadhorse:

mkreku · April 10, 2007

The Company That Just Wouldn't Quit:

http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=38716

Die-shrink (130nm -> 80 nm), cheaper models, more different slot options (I have a few spare PCI-e..). So far I think the entire Ageia company has been living off of Bokishi's purchase as he was probably the only one who bought the thing. In the entire world. Seriously.

I'll probably end up buying one myself when they come down in price. Under $100 and I'll get one.

metadigital · April 10, 2007

SLi PhysX in CrossFire mode ..!

Fenghuang · April 12, 2007

That doesn't even make sense but somehow I want it anyway!

metadigital · April 14, 2007

... With the all-over bodily electrode interface ..!

Fenghuang · April 14, 2007

Duh!

metadigital · April 15, 2007

... and a cup. (Or a catheter.)

Dark_Raven · April 15, 2007

PhysX one of those great ideas that has come and gone, very quickly at that.

$@\NightandtheShape/@$ · April 15, 2007

PhysX one of those great ideas that has come and gone, very quickly at that.

Hasn't gone really.

PhysX may catch on when more Unreal 3 tech games get released.

Remember PhysX?

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