Canon Storylines

[Dhampyre]

Hey folks i am new here, so first off a big heya to everyone.

 

Now getting to the topic.

 

A certain high up official in lucasarts is pressing for Exile to be made female in the canon story lines.

 

Personally thats put me off totally. I loved KoTOR but i liked KoTOR II even better because the exile was a much more interesting and better character. Making exile female would not only mess up the story in many ways but its simply wrong.

 

Firstly if the exile is female, Handmaiden is out of the picture and Disciple is not nearly as interesting or a rememberable character from KoTOR II. I mean who would you rather have? The battle hardened hot echani warrior or the person the exile mockingly called a gentlemen "Ohh you bowed! you must be a gentlemen" (comment if you took Exile to be male and first encountered disciple).

 

Anyway, what about the whole general aspect. The exile is a general. I don't mean to sound sexist is but seeing a male as a general makes more sense than a female. Alot of female jedis are sentinels but even then they tend to focus on force powers and not all out assault and battle. Thats why most jedi weapon masters are male. (I said most not all).

 

What about kreia? Taking nothing away from the story or female gamers but If you've played KoTOR II both as a male and female you'll realize the game is more believable when kreia talks to the exile as male and it seems awkward when the exile is female.

 

Lastly, If the exile is female, the whole romance with Visas and Handmaiden gets thrown out the window. Forget romance handmaiden gets thrown out completely. The best romance story line in all of the KoTOR series is undeniably Exile-Visas. Revan fanboys might argue that Revan-Bastilla was better but come on, Exile-Visas is way cooler.

 

Anyway, Discuss.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Dhampyre

[Sabahattin Dere]

A certain high up official in lucasarts is pressing for Exile to be made female in the canon story lines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who says that?

[Dhampyre]

I am not sure, i read it somewhere wasn't too thrilled about it. Making the exile a female is only going to upset alot of fans since majority of fans are male and at least i think would like the exile to be male.

[DAWUSS]

I prefer the female Exile, partly because my first char was a LSF Exile and I kinda became stuck on that...

 

 

Anyway a female Exile would basically have a bunch of female movers and shakers (Exile, Atris, and Kreia) all intertwined in some girl-on-girl drama that determines the fate of the galaxy (this, I admit, is my weakest reason [or like to believe anyway])

 

I also think a female Exile fits better because a female finally receives a "Chosen One" or "Hero of the Galaxy (LS)" image

 

Also in the male story, Mical gets thrown out just like Brianna does

 

All Jedi happen to have the rank of General (or so it seems anyway)

 

And this isn't a reason but more of a comment I guess I'll stick in (I didn't make this one up, someone else did) but "If you're a guy whose backend would you rather stare at on Peragus?"

 

And BTW, I never did find the Handmaiden hot... I think the grandma-white hair did it for me

[Dhampyre]

Ok, perverted fantasies on DAWUS's part aside,

 

I'de rather be playing a male character and NOT a female one.

 

Play the game for what it was, A star wars game, not because you want to get off on pixelated 3d female characters. You've got dead or alive beach volleyball, rumble roses and hentai games for that.

 

Besides you've got mira/visas/handmaiden.

 

As for the general part. No, all jedi are not generals, however most jedi generals are male. Infact all that i know of are male, if there are any female ones let me know.

 

Don't forget Atris had feelings for the exile. I don't want lesbian star wars characters.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Dhampyre

[Hokage Yoda]

For Revan the cannonical ending is male so I guess the Same goes for the Exile

[Dhampyre]

Lets hope so,

 

If anyone at obsidian or lucasarts is listening. For crying out loud!! Don't make the cannonical Exile female!!!

[Hokage Yoda]

And don't make it Dark Side

[Dhampyre]

Light side ending goes without saying for KoTOR II.

 

I mean come on! If you go with the dark side ending, you end up with all the jedi dead.

 

At the ending if you ask Kreia about your companions, she tells you that Handmaiden/Brianna rebuilds the jedi council and with the help of the jedi (we trained) starts to train a new generation of jedi.

 

In the DS ending, everyone is killed so there would be no Jedi Council. Thats contradictory to all of star wars since we all know that the jedi order was rebuilt and according to cannon story lines by Handmaiden/Brianna.

 

DS ending for any KoTOR game to be cannonical story lines is out of the question. At least not KoTOR I and II.

[Hokage Yoda]

Thank GOD

[DAWUSS]

Ok, perverted fantasies on DAWUS's part aside,

 

Don't forget Atris had feelings for the exile. I don't want lesbian star wars characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1 - I'm single, so I'm allowed to have them, though I'll say they come secondary

 

2 - Um, so does Sion for the female Exile

[Hokage Yoda]

It Matters not

[DarthReliguim]

Well Exile was male on the wallpaper so why change him to female?

[Dark_Raven]

Since the powers that be made Revan a male, it's only fitting they make the Exile female. Plus the role seems to be tailored for a female than a male.

[Wild Storm]

Male without cut-endings. Female with cut-endings.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Female Exile. It's time for the women to take up a dominate role in Star Wars.

[Xard]

Apparently storyline is deeper as male IMO. Otherwise I would love to see canonical Exile as female

[Sabahattin Dere]

SW is a fairy tale oriented towards young males, which means a) that the pivotal figures with whom the audience can identify will always be male, and b) that female heroines will be relevant only to the extent that they fill up the rest of that male-fantasy-world in their capacity as 'romantic interests'. Show me one female character from the gamut of SW literature, who is as 'significant' as any male hero, and is not simply a doll. Heck, as significant as a woman gets in the films is to be the hero's baby doll; that's it. And the games aren't terribly different.

 

Just another indication that one should stop looking for *any* kind of sophistication in SW----anything that exceeds the mentality of a 16 year old boy. (Kotor 2 failed, in my opinion, in its hopeless attempt to extract something 'deep' (?!) out of a fairy tale. So did Lucas in his PT as regards politics, 'human nature', and 'love'.)

 

That's the essence of SW, and it's perfectly fine, as simple escapist entertainment.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Sabahattin Dere

[Dhampyre]

Well put Sabahattin Dere,

 

However i do disagree on the KoTOR II failing part. Anyway back to the topic at hand.

 

Moreover the role is NOT tailor made for a female exile. KoTOR II makes better sense with exile being a male.

 

Without the exile being male alot of interesting aspects and releationships as well as characters are left out.

 

Exile should be male and just because the cannonical Revan is male should be no reason to make the Exile female.

 

They are opposites that doesn't mean they should also be the opposite sex. Flash (from DC comics) is male and his opposite, the Anti-Flash as i remember was NOT a female. There are many other similar examples.

 

Most SW fans are males and they would relate more to a male Exile. There are plenty of heroic characters in the KoTOR series, Bastilla, Mira, Visas, Handmaiden etc etc.

 

I think making the cannonical exile female will only result in alot of fans being upset just to give a few horny immature kids another KoTOR character to drool over.

 

And what about the story? the most imortant part. Exile Male gives us a better story than Exile female.

 

And lets face it, Disciple has to be the worst KoTOR character in the series, not to mention the most uninteresting and boring.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Dhampyre

[Darth_Light]

Yeah you guys are right. Female exile sucks. Male exile is better.

[Calax]

the role is tailored better to the female role for me... (yes I'm a guy) I donno... Female Exile is just... Right.

 

btw A) theres nothing wrong with having a lesbian character and B) besides you don't have to be homosexual to have feelings for sombody of the same gender. Look at classical lit if you don't believe me.

[DAWUSS]

Yeah I tried playing as a male Exile and eventually I just couldn't do it.

[aerowars617]

I would say male Exile because that way handmaiden will be in kotor 3, not disciple :D

 

SW is a fairy tale oriented towards young males...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

actually, I think LA would have made female exile canon if it was based on that reason. I mean you only have to look at tomb raider, resident evil, bloodrayne, etc and you basically spend 80% of the time inadvertantly staring at their arses! young males would be a good target audience for that

Edited May 5, 2006 by aerowars617

[Hekate]

Moreover the role is NOT tailor made for a female exile. KoTOR II makes better sense with exile being a male.

 

Without the exile being male alot of interesting aspects and releationships as well as characters are left out.

First off, why does it have to come down to a Handmaiden/Disciple showdown? How does that establish whether female or male Exile is "better"? There is the rest of the cast's interactions to consider as well. Atton's relationship with Exile is quite powerful, as are Bao-Dur's, and Visas. Second, i can honestly not see how a male Exile is better than a female one. If one wants to argue using relationships as the focus, than why should Atris seemingly having loved male Exile take precedence over Atris having respected and cared for female Exile? i also cannot see how Handmaiden's impersonal tie to Exile is more significant than Disciple's personal one. He was going to be her padawan. Handmaiden was sent on the mission to accompany Exile by Atris, and she just happened to develop an interest in him. Relationship and past history wise, Disciple has Handmaiden bested.

 

Exile should be male and just because the cannonical Revan is male should be no reason to make the Exile female.

They are opposites that doesn't mean they should also be the opposite sex. Flash (from DC comics) is male and his opposite, the Anti-Flash as i remember was NOT a female.  There are many other similar examples.

Having a cannonical female Exile specifically as a counter point to a male Revan is a good reason. Saying Exile cannot be female because Revan is male is not a good reason. There is a difference between the two. The first is stating that adding an additional layer of complexity and plot potential with them being of opposite sexes is possible. The second is simply stating males are prefered. If there is a plot reason for them both being male, then so be it, but to categorically refuse the possibility of Exile being female is a rather weak argument.

 

Most SW fans are males and they would relate more to a male Exile.

Is that statement a fact or an assumption? i've never read any statistics so i really don't know if that is true. It also depends on what constitutes a fan. How does one determine that? Even if males buy more SW items per male (ie comics, movies, and books) does not necessarily mean less females make individual purchases. Is there even a way to sort a statistic like that out acurately? There are many factors to consider, ie the one who purchases an item isn't necessarily the only one to have acess to it. Are more males exposed to the SW universe than females? i would believe that is a difficult assumtion to prove.

 

i also do not understand why one has to be of the same sex as another person in order to be able to relate to and to understand that person. Is it not mostly ideas and experiences that allow for understanding? Sure, a female cannot understand what it is physically like to be a male, nor can a male understand what it is physically like to be a female; however; that alone certainly cannot explain this supposed difficulty in being able to relate to/understand a character. i understood both the male and female renditions of both Exile and Revan. They are essentially the same person. The only difference is in who the game allows either Revan/Exile to pursue romantic relationships with.

 

There are plenty of heroic characters in the KoTOR series, Bastilla, Mira, Visas, Handmaiden etc etc.

i would counter there are alot of heroic male characters in the KotOR series ie: Carth, Atton, Bao-dur, etc, and also more of them too. In KotOR there were 4 male party members to 3 females and the 2 droids are seen as male. In KotOR II, there are 2 static female party members (Kriea and Visas) with the optiion of 2 more (Mira and Handmaiden) for a total of 2-4. There are 3 static male party members (Atton, Bao-Dur, and Mandalore) with 2 variables (Hanhaar and Disciple) for a total of 3-5. And again the 3 droids are considered "male" with male voices and being refered to as "he". So if it comes down to numbers, as it seems to indicate in the above statement, than there are more male heroic character in the games than female ones which renders that argument moot. Unless the point being made is that having as many females as there already are is enough. Than there really is no way to counter that other than by saying that would be an issue to debate.

 

i also question if the male and female cast can be considered heroic in equal proportions. One could argue that some of the female heroes (party members) are not as heroic as the males ones based on certain criteria ie: confidence and strength of personality. The females tended to have more uncertainty and confusion as a whole. In KotOR Bastila and Juhani doubt their own abilities and strengths. Whereas the males were all self-assured and trusted in their abilities regardless of their personal issues. In KotOR II, a similar pattern appears. Kreia is the only fully self-confident female party member. Disciple, Mandalore, and Hanhaar are fully confident in their abilities. However combat wise, they are pretty much equal across the board since leveling stats and Force use etc isn't at all dependant on the individual's sex. When considering these factors, it becomes less trivial to simply brush away the possibility of a cannonical female Exile due to the fact there are heroic females in the party.

 

I think making the cannonical exile female will only result in alot of fans being upset just to give a few horny immature kids another KoTOR character to drool over.

Again, the logic here eludes me. Why would a lead female character be there simply for "eye candy" and not for the literary worth of the character? i cannot see how Exile being a cannonical female would disappoint alot a fans. That sounds as if the argument is 1)people in general cannot see the worth of female leads 2)females should not be considered lead material 3)the only worth a female has in a story/as a character is to fulfil some sexual purpose. These seem to be illogical arguments. To counter, one could argue many fans will be upset if Exile is made into yet another cannonical male because there are not enough strong female leads in the SW universe as it stands.

 

And what about the story? the most imortant part. Exile Male gives us a better story than Exile female.

How so?

 

SW is a fairy tale oriented towards young males, which means a) that the pivotal figures with whom the audience can identify will always be male, and b) that female heroines will be relevant only to the extent that they fill up the rest of that male-fantasy-world in their capacity as 'romantic interests'. Show me one female character from the gamut of SW literature, who is as 'significant' as any male hero, and is not simply a doll. Heck, as significant as a woman gets in the films is to be the hero's baby doll; that's it. And the games aren't terribly different.

i am not sure that is completely acurate. In the case of Revan being a female,Padme in The Phantom Menace, Leia in the trilogies and some of the novels, Kreia, there are others as well, they have strong and powerful roles. However it is acurate to say, as with Padme in the preceeding films, females do get reduced to lesser capacities and do often succumb to playing lessers to the lead males. And that is quite unfortunate. However, effort should be made to rectify that situation rather than accept it and continue along the same vein.

 

Just another indication that one should stop looking for *any* kind of sophistication in SW----anything that exceeds the mentality of a 16 year old boy. (Kotor 2 failed, in my opinion, in its hopeless attempt to extract something 'deep' (?!) out of a fairy tale. So did Lucas in his PT as regards politics, 'human nature', and 'love'.)

 

That's the essence of SW, and it's perfectly fine, as simple escapist entertainment.

While there are many elements which still remain lacking and/or unexplored in what i have been exposed to of the SW universe, i still believe it does look at philosophical questions and explores various aspects of the cosmos, society, human nature, etc. Even if KotOR II failed with accomplishing it's apparent objective of examining the Force, human nature, and ethics/morality, it still did attempt it. And it did make some insightful and deep explorations. ie the notion of interconnectedness, how actions carry through beyond the doer's scope, the possibility of good and evil being more complex than a simple LS/DS alignment, and many others. i would argue there was sophistication in its inception, and such attempts to add depth beyond "a neat story about a sabre weilding tough guy" should be encouraged. SW is very popular and reaches many people, thus adding strong female leads and depth of philosophy are positive additions.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Plus the role seems to be tailored for a female than a male.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What ? Sucking the life out of people until they are an empty shell

 

PC characters should not be made NPCs.