Hurlshort Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 You do realize I hope that this thread is about NWN2 and not the OC of NWN Or are you just trying to win the internet again? (w00t) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pardon me for being unclear, I mean people are infatuated with NWN in general. That encompasses NWN, NWN2, the OC, 90210...whatever. No need to be snippy.
Darque Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 You do realize I hope that this thread is about NWN2 and not the OC of NWN Or are you just trying to win the internet again? (w00t) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pardon me for being unclear, I mean people are infatuated with NWN in general. That encompasses NWN, NWN2, the OC, 90210...whatever. No need to be snippy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't get mad I might have been poking fun, but I wasn't being snippy. I really felt, from your post that is, that you're saying that NWN is so beloved for it's OC only.
Gromnir Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 This is also why Obsidian has said they're focusing more on the SP than on MP <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Darque Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Well... that is true too. I guess the question is "why" did it sell?
Dark_Raven Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Yeah, but what if it's 20 hours for the main quest and 40 extra hours for sidequests and stuff? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That would be good. A 60+ hours worth of game play. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
kirottu Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I guess the question is "why" did it sell? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Those thoughts will lead you to dark and scary place far beyond common sense. :ph34r: This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 "Not for it's OC, as Hurlshot would have us all believe" Yes, for the OC. Most people who bought NWN and its expansions did so for the OCs. This is a fact. This is also why Obsidian has said they're focusing more on the SP than on MP this time around (not to mention, that the MP/tooselt/dm client stuff work was pretty much done anyways). NWN's popularity is driven by the OC; not by MP contrary to what boardies claim. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is exactly what we were arguing about on the bioware board. Without the toolset and modding ability NWN would have been a dead flat failure that no one would be talking about today. It's graphics engine was below average, and it's OC was just terrible. Granated the two expansions were better but I bought them for the extra tilesets/creature/classes/ and toolset functionality. I will agree with you that MP was never a big deal, at least to me, but making and playing SP modules are what made that game. As I posted earlier, that is really all I (and a hell of a lot of others) care about for NWN2. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Dark_Raven Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Somehow I doubt they'd go as extreme as 20 levels in around 20 hours. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But people were begging to get to epic levels in NWN 2... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've never understood the desire for "epic" gaming. Seems pretty boring. But then, maybe that's why I've always enjoyed BG more than BG2 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I buy a $50 game I want my money's worth from it. Epic long game would be swwet, just like BG1 that you mentioned. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Judge Hades Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 20 hours? What a disappointment. I thought Obsidian was better than that. I guess not. Well, there goes my enthusiasm for the game. So, does this mean its a bargin bin game? I think so.
Gromnir Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Well... that is true too. I guess the question is "why" did it sell? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, the thing is that nwn products continued to sell. that is meaningful to Gromnir. even if people claims that it were hype or the d&d name or even bg or bg2 that got people to buy nwn initially, peoples continued to buy nwn and nwn expansions for a good long time after the strengths and shortcomings o' nwn were being posted 'cross the web. beyond the first couple of months can we assume that people were still being tricked into buying nwn? the expansions did pretty good too. is it reasonable to assume that the duration of bioware's/atari's mass hypnosis lasted for years? HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Volourn Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 "As I posted earlier, that is really all I (and a hell of a lot of others) care about for NWN2." The 'a lot' you speak of is a minority. Just deal with that fact. btw, I'm a part of the minority now. I wasn't when NWN1 came out; but NWN made a believer out of me. The bottom line is there wouldn't have been expansions to get your titlesets and stuff (or this sequel) if it wasn't for people buying NWN1 for its OC and enjoying it enough to buy the expansions as well. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Dark_Raven Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 20 hours? What a disappointment. I thought Obsidian was better than that. I guess not. Well, there goes my enthusiasm for the game. So, does this mean its a bargin bin game? I think so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it is, I blame Atari for it. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Judge Hades Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) I blame both Atari and Obsidian. Both the publisher and the developer are equally responsible for the game. I remember when the Black Isle folks said BGDA was going to take 20 to 25 hours to beat. I did so in 12 on hard. So if Feargus is saying this is a 20 hour game then it will take me 10 hours to beat. Of course they will make the game so that the player would experience almost every level, like Bioware did, so 20 levels in 10 hours. Yeah, like I really want to play that. Edited April 23, 2006 by Judge Hades
Volourn Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 You'd be wrong, of course. Atari had no problem with the NWN1 OC being 40-60 hours (some finishe dit as early as 30 hours or as mnuch as 100 yeah 100 hours)... So, why are they supposedly demanding 20 hours for NWN2? Iyt's not like they arne't giving Obsidian time to work on the game - over 2 years, actually, and about the same length it took to make bg2. And, way more time than BIO spent on the NWN1 OC... DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Dark_Raven Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I blame both Atari and Obsidian. Both the publisher and the developer are equally responsible for the game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Atari. We can not blame the great Obsidian. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 is not like Gromnir were a fan of the nwn oc, though it weren't as terrible as some suggest... it were still pretty disappointing. in any event, and we feels the need to repeat this yet again, nwn sold +2 million copies and over 90% of purchasers never used any mp features or the toolset. 2 million copies sold is not a failure.... no matter how bad some thinks the oc sucked. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One thing I'd point out Grom is that you do not need to use the toolset to benefit from it. Without that there would have been no NWNVault and no 5000 modules to download for free. If even 50% of those 2 Million (and I account for two of them) gamers downloaded even one user made module, they benefited/used the toolset. Heck, Shadowlords/Dreamcatcher/Demon alone has been downloaded nearly a million times from the 4 websites that hosted them. Take that away and where would NWN be? "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Volourn Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) Dark Raven: Hmm.. Finally.. I smell some sarcasm coming from you. " "Take that away and where would NWN be?" Still a multi million selling game with 2 expansions and a sequel on the way. That's where. Edited April 23, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Dark_Raven Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 is not like Gromnir were a fan of the nwn oc, though it weren't as terrible as some suggest... it were still pretty disappointing. in any event, and we feels the need to repeat this yet again, nwn sold +2 million copies and over 90% of purchasers never used any mp features or the toolset. 2 million copies sold is not a failure.... no matter how bad some thinks the oc sucked. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One thing I'd point out Grom is that you do not need to use the toolset to benefit from it. Without that there would have been no NWNVault and no 5000 modules to download for free. If even 50% of those 2 Million (and I account for two of them) gamers downloaded even one user made module, they benefited/used the toolset. Heck, Shadowlords/Dreamcatcher/Demon alone has been downloaded nearly a million times from the 4 websites that hosted them. Take that away and where would NWN be? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would be another throw away game. Play it once to completion that throw it away. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Volourn Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 "Play it once to completion that throw it away." Not if you are Hades, and played it 3+ times!!! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Guard Dog Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Dark Raven: Hmm.. Finally.. I smell some sarcasm coming from you. " "Take that away and where would NWN be?" Still a multi million selling game with 2 expansions and a sequel on the way. That's where. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As usual Volo, I disagree. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Judge Hades Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Volourn, that is tiny compared the number of times I replayed BG, BG2, PS:T, Fallout, and Fallout 2, which I have replayed 30 to 40 times each. In any case, NWN 1 is irrelevant to the shortness of NWN 2.
Gromnir Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) 20 hours? What a disappointment. I thought Obsidian was better than that. I guess not. Well, there goes my enthusiasm for the game. So, does this mean its a bargin bin game? I think so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it is, I blame Atari for it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> am thinking that obsidian is discovering, much as bio discovered far too late, that a toolset and a solid sp oc for a d&d 3e game is lots of work. obsidian has decided that the appropriate corners to cut is on amount of content rather than quality. is just too bad that those corners had to be cut, 'cause no matter how some folks spin it, 20 hours or less is pretty damn short. also, we does note that when developers gives estimates of hours of gameplay for a crpg, they never is speaking solely of how fast people can rush through the critical path... never. HA! Good Fun! ps sorry gd, but the nwnvault stuff were included in the "less than 10%" numbers from bioware. sp downloads has been played by a very small number of people compared to total purchasers. yeah, is more people playing sp downloads than is using the toolset to create pws, but the number of folks getting anything out of nwn other than oc playage is less than 10%. Edited April 23, 2006 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Volourn Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) GD, I should point out that for me personally, mods/PW/toolset (even though I haven't yet released anything damn... trying though) it has added lots of playing time. And, if it wasn't for that stuff, NWN wouldn't be my favorite game (let alone top ten); but bottom line it would still be popular and still sold. Edited April 23, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Dark_Raven Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Volourn, that is tiny compared the number of times I replayed BG, BG2, PS:T, Fallout, and Fallout 2, which I have replayed 30 to 40 times each. In any case, NWN 1 is irrelevant to the shortness of NWN 2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Those games except PST, are not throw away games. Throw away games is something that only keeps your attention span for one game, than you are ready to play the next great thing. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
karka Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 20 hours? What a disappointment. I thought Obsidian was better than that. I guess not. Well, there goes my enthusiasm for the game. So, does this mean its a bargin bin game? I think so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it is, I blame Atari for it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, blame Lucasarts for KOTOR 2, blame Atari for NWN 2. And i think next time we will blame SEGA.
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