Pre-E3 Bioware interview

[Judge Hades]

With what authority do you two tell what's epic and what's not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I have no authority. Wow, I have yet met a person stupid enough to give me any sort of authority.

[WinterSun]

Once you know where everything is you can finish BG1 in just over a weekend.

[Judge Hades]

That is why I said, "first play through."

[WinterSun]

Huh. Must have missed that.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Speed gaming through it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't pleasure myself while playing through the romances. That must've taken quite a chuck out of playtime.

[metadigital]

Well what sort of Role Play is THAT?!

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I don't know what you expected, but I only touch myself for Llyranor or Musopticon?.

[Dark_Raven]

For computer games, especially the CRPG genre, no less than 60 hours of gameplay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Curious, considering the Baldur's Gate series is called epic and I've spent a single playthrough of the entire series in less than 60 hours.

 

OMGOSH NOT EPIC!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I spent 80 plus hours alone on BG 1 and nearly a 100 hours on BG2. WHat were you doing?!?!? Speed gaming through it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the idea, take your time. Anything worth doing, is worth doing slow. This way you will not miss any quests or other things.

[Gromnir]

am thinking that the point is that different folks take different 'mounts of time to play these games, so some number likes 40 or 60 becomes meaningless.

 

in any event, vis coulda' said 200 hours and his opinion would still not be more or less valid. that being said, a long computer game is, 'specially in today's world, pretty darn short. can't try to do the sub-genre thing neither to makes a point... simply compare to crpgs don't work, 'cause as we noted, crpgs, for the most part is trying to be epic... so only choosing the long ones misses the point. gotta compare to all games, just as we compares epic poems to all poems and epic movies to all movies to be establishing some sorts measure for epic size... just compare to other works that claims to be epic and then saying that only the longest ones really is epic is kinda odd reasoning, no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Dark_Raven]

That Gromnir is one smart cookie.

[Judge Hades]

Odd reasoning? Grommie, look who you are talking to. Odd reasoning is putting it mildly.

[Volourn]

"Hmmm... So it has to be long. Well, that excludes Bioware's games except the Baldur's Gate games."

 

No.

 

 

"For a CRPG to be considered epic it needs to be at minimum 60 hours long on one's first play through. Also I didn't feel particularly heoric in NWN or KotOR."

 

Oh really? That is very illogical. 60 hour sminimum is what's needed? Where to I find that defintion?

 

Actually, you are more heroic in NWN1 than you are in either KOTOR (though one cnaa rgue this game qualifies) or BG since it's not relaly heroic if you are trying to save yourself. LOL Heroism is about helping others than yourself.

[Tigranes]

BG since it's not relaly heroic if you are trying to save yourself.

 

In that case, ALL the save-the-world heroes aren't heroes, since if the world is doomed, so are they.

[Volourn]

"In that case, ALL the save-the-world heroes aren't heroes, since if the world is doomed, so are they."

 

No. Not quite true. You are risking your life for the rest of world (and, not just for a reward) so you are a hero in that sense.

[Judge Hades]

But he is also risking his life to save himself. Also Epics need to be long. A 30 hour CRPG is too short to be considered epic.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Tigranes]

Yes. Extending that logic, you are a hero in BG because in the process of saving yourself, you also save the Sword Coast from war (I mean, you could have just run away to Kara-Tur. )

 

This 'discussion' is really anal though. You know BG is going to be labelled epic by the media, and casual gamers will think its epic, and hardcore gamers will be divided.

[Judge Hades]

Hardcore Gamers = Anal Retentatives. Always have and always will.

[Volourn]

"But he is also risking his life to save himself. Also Epics need to be long. A 30 hour CRPG is too short to be considered epic."

 

Yes, but what's his goal? Is his goal to save the world or is it to save himself? Motivation here is the key.

 

Good exmaple is BG2 when Irenicus kidnaps Imoen. There are two motivations for hunting him down:

 

1. To rescue Imoen. This is the heroic reason.

 

2. To avenge Irenicus kidnapping, and torturing you. That's a personal (and selfish) reason to do so. Not heroic.

 

 

As for '30 hours being too short'. You ahev no proof. You arejust pulling random numbers out of your behind.

 

 

As Grom pointed out, various poems have been refered to as 'epics' (ala ballads) and they're nowhere 30 hours. Heck, you said a movie has to be 3-4 hours to be epic... again, why? Why does a game need to be that much longet than a movie to be considered epic?

 

Illogical illogicy.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Volourn

[Judge Hades]

I am pulling numbers from what I consider epic and what I don't consider epic. If a game is around 30 hours in length its not epic. Plain and simple. Also I never really bought into the whole motivations in BG2. My character didn't give a rat's ass about Imoen nor did he care about revenge, but Bioware chose to ignore that and dictate how I should play my character.

[Volourn]

Yeah. And, in FO, I didn't care about helping the vault or stopping the Master.

 

The list goes on...

 

P.S. Irneicus would eventually come after you anyway so you had to face him. You ar ejust being silly.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Volourn

[Judge Hades]

Well, in Fallout you didn't have to help the vault or stopping the Master, or are you forgetting that ending.

 

EDIT: Of course Irenicus would have came after me, but he would be on my turf and not me being on his. That was a lost opportunity in role playing. You get a stronghold, you could build up defenses, recruit individuals, then when Irenicus does come a knocking then you can trap him and his sister on your own terms.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Tigranes]

So if one's primary motivation is not heroic, then no deeds accomplished in that time are heroic?

 

The standard of 'epic' has to come when most people cognisant of the medium look at a certain length and say "woah, that's LONG." That certainly occurs at 60: it probably occurs at 40 or 50. 30? Probably not. But then, this is all blind man's guesses.

 

Also I never really bought into the whole motivations in BG2. My character didn't give a rat's ass about Imoen nor did he care about revenge, but Bioware chose to ignore that and dictate how I should play my character.

 

*shrug* you could equally not care about Vault 13 / Arroyo, you could still wander around (a la BG) but you couldn't complete the game. Or you could just not care about your mortality or your past in PS:T. Certain parameters must be drawn, and accommodating for characters that

 

1/ care about childhood friend

2/ does not like getting kidnapped, tortured, robbed and generally screwed and (you forgot this one)

3/ is not tempted by Irenicus' talk of untapping your potential

 

is a lot more sensible than accommodating for a character that cares about none of these things and is happy to simply walk away after having been tortured and seeing his comrades killed/kidnapped. I mean, BG2 didn't exactly give you an amazing sense of torture and hurt in that first dungeon, but still.

[Judge Hades]

That initial dungeon in BG2 was pretty pathetic.

[Tigranes]

Yes, but on fallout point: you would have missed out on the main quest and could not complete the game without caring for Vault 13/Arroyo. Same with bg2. You could explore 80% of the game at Ch2 withotu raising that 20,000 gold.

[Volourn]

"Well, in Fallout you didn't have to help the vault or stopping the Master, or are you forgetting that ending."

 

YOU LOSE is not a real ending. If that's a ending; you might as well just consider 'dying in battle' an ending. LOL

 

 

"Certain parameters must be drawn, and accommodating for characters that

 

1/ care about childhood friend

2/ does not like getting kidnapped, tortured, robbed and generally screwed and (you forgot this one)

3/ is not tempted by Irenicus' talk of untapping your potential"

 

3 different motivations isn't soemthing that should be complained. It's certainly more than the vast majority of games, and surely is on equal footing with FO's main quest in that regard at the very least.

 

You also forgot the choice of 'retire the character ins tronghold', and end the game that way. LOL

 

 

"is a lot more sensible than accommodating for a character that cares about none of these things and is happy to simply walk away after having been tortured and seeing his comrades killed/kidnapped."

 

Anyone who wa splaying a character liek that probably does not about role-playing. It seesm lame that anyone playing a character that went through the events of BG1 9either by defualt or actuality) would likely not be the type to be tortured and simply move on. Talk about lameity role-playing, indeed.

 

 

 

"That initial dungeon in BG2 was pretty pathetic."

 

Second best start to a game ever.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Volourn