Why do you hate YOUR country

[julianw]

If I get this right, then your proposal is to actively deport the illegals and at the same time drive them out of jobs so we eventually get rid of all of them? In the process, we get our unemployed workers back to work and get new (and legal) immigrants to fill any void in the work force? I am guessing this since rewarding any illegal immigrant legal status is obviously out of the question.

 

I can see that by rewarding the illegal immigrants, we might encourage more of them to come and dig us into a deeper hole, so I guess you are right. In the end, we really might not be doing the illegals any favor since their children would have to compete with a new wave of illegal workers. Though there are still a few problems with your plan: First, many illegal immigrants have family members living and working here legally. I am sure they wouldn't thank you a thousand fold for separating their family. Furthermore, the system for legal immigration into US is certainly broken. Climbing over mountains and escape from armed border patrol members or hiding in a cargo hold for weeks deprived of oxygen certainly aren't as comfortable as waiting on a sofa for an interview with an immigration officer. So I wonder if the US is ready to lift the quotas on legal immigration? If so, wouldn't you get the same group of people you just deported?

[metadigital]

Fixing the immigration system (the cause) is infinitely preferrable to treating the symptoms.

[Judge Hades]

If I get this right, then your proposal is to actively deport the illegals and at the same time drive them out of jobs so we eventually get rid of all of them? In the process, we get our unemployed workers back to work and get new (and legal) immigrants to fill any void in the work force? I am guessing this since rewarding any illegal immigrant legal status is obviously out of the question.

 

Bingo. In this process I would also increase the minimum wage up to a minimum of $6.50 an hour as well so that it matches the cost of living increases over the years.

 

I can see that by rewarding the illegal immigrants, we might encourage more of them to come and dig us into a deeper hole, so I guess you are right. In the end, we really might not be doing the illegals any favor since their children would have to compete with a new wave of illegal workers.

 

Maybe and maybe not. We need to make sure that there isn't another wave of illegal immigration. Border patrols, uses of barricades, and the such could be implemented to make sure that the borders are secured.

 

Though there are still a few problems with your plan: First, many illegal immigrants have family members living and working here legally. I am sure they wouldn't thank you a thousand fold for separating their family.

 

And I don't thank them for coming here illegally. If they immigrated into this country legally then this would not be an issue but they chose to break the law and therefore they need to face the consequences of their actions.

 

Furthermore, the system for legal immigration into US is certainly broken. Climbing over mountains and escape from armed border patrol members or hiding in a cargo hold for weeks deprived of oxygen certainly aren't as comfortable as waiting on a sofa for an interview with an immigration officer. So I wonder if the US is ready to lift the quotas on legal immigration? If so, wouldn't you get the same group of people you just deported?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't see it as broken. My friend from Great Britain immigrated without any problems. My great grandparents from Germany immigrated with no problems. In fact I am sure there are plenty of immigrants who came into this country without any problems at all. The system is not broken. It is designed to do what it is suppose to do.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Judge Hades

[~Di]

If I get this right, then your proposal is to actively deport the illegals and at the same time drive them out of jobs so we eventually get rid of all of them? In the process, we get our unemployed workers back to work and get new (and legal) immigrants to fill any void in the work force?

 

Yep.

 

I am guessing this since rewarding any illegal immigrant legal status is obviously out of the question.

 

Yep. It didn't work when Reagan did it in 1986 and it won't work now. Let me quote from an AP article in my local paper this morning: " Mexican citizens anticipate passage of guest worker plan... at a shelter overflowing with migrants... the shelter's manager said he has not seen such a rush of migrants since 1986, whent he United States allowed 2.6 million illegal residents to get American citizenship.... "

 

And there, in a nutshell, you have it. (I found a CNN link to the article ) Yes, these people are brave and deserving of a better life. So are about 5 billion other poverty-ridden people on this planet, and frankly the 290 million taxpayers in the USA cannot be expected to support all of them. No foreign nationals have an entitlement to enter this country at will and break our laws in doing so. They just don't.

 

I can see that by rewarding the illegal immigrants, we might encourage more of them to come and dig us into a deeper hole, so I guess you are right. In the end, we really might not be doing the illegals any favor since their children would have to compete with a new wave of illegal workers. Though there are still a few problems with your plan:

 

"My plan" involves enforcing our present laws. So you could more accurately phrase that as "Though there are still a few problems with enforcing the current laws":

 

First, many illegal immigrants have family members living and working here legally. I am sure they wouldn't thank you a thousand fold for separating their family.

 

I did not separate their family. They did.

 

Furthermore, the system for legal immigration into US is certainly broken. Climbing over mountains and escape from armed border patrol members or hiding in a cargo hold for weeks deprived of oxygen certainly aren't as comfortable as waiting on a sofa for an interview with an immigration officer. So I wonder if the US is ready to lift the quotas on legal immigration? If so, wouldn't you get the same group of people you just deported?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know whether the US would lift quotas once the flood of illegals is under control or not. As for getting back the same people we just deported, fine with me, so long as this time they follow our laws.

Edited April 13, 2006 by ~Di

[Lucius]

Either they adapt to the culture of the nation that takes them in, or they leave. I really can't see it being any other way. (this is meant towards immigrants in general, not the US case)

Edited April 13, 2006 by Lucius

[Judge Hades]

I agree with that as well. If I was to move to Quebec I would learn French and learn the ways there. If I was going to move to Brazil I would learn Portulguese (msp), German if I was going to move and work in Germany.

[metadigital]

Spain is on it's eighth amnesty, iirc. "

[astr0creep]

I agree with that as well.  If I was to move to Quebec I would learn French and learn the ways there.  If I was going to move to Brazil I would learn Portulguese (msp), German if I was going to move and work in Germany.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you want to move to Quebec, you would have to learn French before coming in. At least that is how it's supposed to work.

[Judge Hades]

That is what I meant.

[julianw]

I don't see it as broken.  My friend from Great Britain immigrated without any problems.  My great grandparents from Germany immigrated with no problems.  In fact I am sure there are plenty of immigrants who came into this country without any problems at all.  The system is not broken.  It is designed to do what it is suppose to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't be silly, Hades. Back in your grandfather's days, we have no laws restricting immigrants who are (direct quote from immigration laws) "free white person". As for your friend from UK, the US still has no severe restrictions on western European immigrants because few of them really want to come here in the first place.

 

The death tolls from people trying to reach America should be enough to convince you that the immigration system is broken at the moment.

 

I did not separate their family.  They did.

I guess being an immigant myself, it's just easier for me to sympathize with their cause.

 

I don't know whether the US would lift quotas once the flood of illegals is under control or not.  As for getting back the same people we just deported, fine with me, so long as this time they follow our laws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You see, back in China, we call this 'taking off your pants and fart'. Why can't we tighten our border security and prevent more illegals from entering and grant those already here legal status (not citizenship) to work here? Or maybe offer them the choice of paying a hefty fine for breaking the laws in the first place so they could stay or be deported?

Edited April 13, 2006 by julianw

[WITHTEETH]

mmmmm........Windsor

 

You'll never find a bigger hive of scum and semi-legal prostitution

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless you go across the river where there is worse scum and illegal prositution. And by the way, whats wrong with prositution, you have problems with pleasure? Its one of the oldest professions in the world i hear.

[Judge Hades]

I don't see the death tolls as proof that our system is broken, only that the country they are leaving from is broken.

[Dark_Raven]

I would only move to an English speaking country since that is what I am fluent in.

 

But I love America, you can either love it or leave it.

[Judge Hades]

If I had the money I would leave it. I would move to Australia.

[Surreptishus]

If I had the money I would leave it.  I would move to Australia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are very strict about not allowing non-native flora and fauna to enter their country.

[Dark_Raven]

If I had the money I would leave it.  I would move to Australia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[Judge Hades]

It would be a nice place to live if it wasn't for the stupidity of the government.

[~Di]

I don't know whether the US would lift quotas once the flood of illegals is under control or not.  As for getting back the same people we just deported, fine with me, so long as this time they follow our laws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You see, back in China, we call this 'taking off your pants and fart'. Why can't we tighten our border security and prevent more illegals from entering and grant those already here legal status (not citizenship) to work here? Or maybe offer them the choice of paying a hefty fine for breaking the laws in the first place so they could stay or be deported?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The fact that you can make this statement and ask these questions after everything I have written in response to you convinces me that you have either not bothered to read a thing I have written, or are so blinded by your own position that you refuse to acknowledge anyone else's. I have already answered those questions. I see no reason for repeating myself.

 

No foreign national has a right to be in this country unless they abide by our laws and conditions of entry, just as I have no right to be in any country except under the conditions they have set forth. I honestly do not understand why they... and you... feel that you are entitled to be here just because you want to be, and our laws be damned.

 

This is the attitude of entitlement that has soured a hell of a lot of my countrymen on the immigration issue. And it's fast souring me as well. I have tried to have an honest discussion with you on this topic, and point out how the immense flood of illegals has adversely affected our own population. However, I won't continue to respond to you since you either cannot understand what I am saying or simply refuse to acknowledge it, prefering instead to rudely liken my responses to 'farting.'

 

Good day to you, sir.

[Laozi]

It would be a nice place to live if it wasn't for the stupidity of the government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Plus death waits around ever corner there

 

 

Spiders, snakes, crocs, sharks,........... mel gipson

Edited April 14, 2006 by Laozi

[julianw]

A million apologies for the misunderstanding. My analogy only applies to the process of deporting 50 million people and then try to reinstate them into the system again. It's certainly not directed at your well-written posts.

 

Also I certainly won't argue about whether the illegals have the right to be here, I am simply arguing that deporting all of them may not be the most beneficial step for the US government to take. Again, if my ignorance offends you then I am truly sorry.

Edited April 14, 2006 by julianw

[~Di]

A million apologies for the misunderstanding. My analogy only applies to the process of deporting 50 million people and then try to reinstate them into the system again. It's certainly not directed at your well-written posts.

 

Also I certainly won't argue about whether the illegals have the right to be here, I am simply arguing that deporting all of them may not be the most beneficial step for the US government to take. Again, if my ignorance offends you then I am truly sorry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh crap. Hard to maintain a proper snit with a sincere, heartfelt and genuine apology like that.

 

Okay, okay. It's all good.

[julianw]

Sorry about that vulgar analogy anyway. I am just a young punk who sympathizes with the illegal immigrants since I too sacrificed very much just for a piece of the American dream. I did it legally, btw, before you get upset again. ^_^ *shows his shiny orange green card* I understand that US is generous enough as it is, allowing young punks like me to come into this country, go to its schools, and living a better life than I deserve, so I am sincerely grateful for this generosity and wish nothing but the best for this country.

 

Okay, enough rambling. :">

Edited April 14, 2006 by julianw

[Laozi]

We were discussing illegal immigration in my government class and my teacher basically stated that it is important that those in this country illegally must be deported since they've already shown a penchant for breaking the law.

[metadigital]

It would be a nice place to live if it wasn't for the stupidity of the government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Plus death waits around ever corner there

 

 

Spiders, snakes, crocs, sharks,........... mel gipson

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. He was talking about the US govt.

2. Mel Gibson is a Yankee ... ask him. (And a mad Catholic, too.)

[Deraldin]

Sorry about that vulgar analogy anyway. I am just a young punk who sympathizes with the illegal immigrants since I too sacrificed very much just for a piece of the American dream. I did it legally, btw, before you get upset again. ^_^ *shows his shiny orange green card* I understand that US is generous enough as it is, allowing young punks like me to come into this country, go to its schools, and living a better life than I deserve, so I am sincerely grateful for this generosity and wish nothing but the best for this country.

 

Okay, enough rambling. :">

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Shiny orange green card?

Edited April 14, 2006 by Deraldin