LoneWolf16 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Yeah, that whole "reality" thing seems to be the biggest obstacle in the way of a truly communist society. I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baley Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Then please tell us what you think of Lenin? If he is no Dictator why is his body still preserved! Also people back then would rather have lived under Lenin then the Tzar <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you actually know what a dictator is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 People need to understand that Karl Marx defined the communism revolution into stages. First, the ruling class must be overthrown and a totalitarian government of socialists put in its place. When the conditions I mentioned before are met, governments will be abolished and everyone lives happily ever after. And in a pure capitalistic society, there would be no taxes or governments, either. As you see, all countries today are neither pure communists nor pure capitalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogo Ribeiro Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Then please tell us what you think of Lenin? If he is no Dictator why is his body still preserved! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The butterflies in my glass box are also communists then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 What? Most basic reason for crime is poverty, not power.No... the basic reason for crime is law. And beyond that, greed. Law is necessary for society as we know it, and greed seems to be hard-coded in us, so... - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elven6 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 hmm Im a one man army here Baley a dictator is someone who uses force to implement their rules Julian if you recall Lenin modified it to suite the needs of the Russian people, many communist countrys probably followed Lenin's rule. For all you American posters if Communism is pathetic why did it make your presidents shake in their boots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Ehm, I learned in school that Lenin was a bad man. Is anyone here saying the opposite? :ph34r: DENMARK! It appears that I have not yet found a sig to replace the one about me not being banned... interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Then please tell us what you think of Lenin? If he is no Dictator why is his body still preserved! Also people back then would rather have lived under Lenin then the Tzar If your going to argue at least use examples Has for JulianW's point I have to do a bit of research on what you said, what I do know is Swithzernd is a Socialist soceity and the taxes thing works like this If you work at Mc Donalds and earn $2000US a year that means your taxes would probably be $50 (Don't know what formula they use but you get the point) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not even going to debate that. You're funny. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) Then please tell us what you think of Lenin? If he is no Dictator why is his body still preserved! Also people back then would rather have lived under Lenin then the Tzar If your going to argue at least use examples Has for JulianW's point I have to do a bit of research on what you said, what I do know is Swithzernd is a Socialist soceity and the taxes thing works like this If you work at Mc Donalds and earn $2000US a year that means your taxes would probably be $50 (Don't know what formula they use but you get the point) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lenin? Wow. Granted Lenin he was no Stalin, but he was no benevolent ruler. I'd suggest you read up on the Bolshevik Revolution as well. And in case you need examples, many statues of Lenin have been torn down since him being in power. One of the tenants of Communism is also the abolition of private property and a classless system. In a sense it is forced equality, and by no means free. Definitely not a prerequisite to democracy. As for your last example, in a truly communist state, if the community saw fit, you may only see $50 of that $2000. Edited March 16, 2006 by Mothman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 My opinion? Communism doesn't work, capitalism doesn't work either. Why? People are bastards. And that's really all I have to say on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elven6 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) In other words your out of ideas HA I said I wasen't sure which country it was but their was one that did this, Mothman you realize Wikipedia can be edited by anyone right Do you think George Washington didn't encounter resistance when he fought the British? When things change people don't agree with it which causes rebellions Edited March 16, 2006 by Elven6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) Julian if you recall Lenin modified it to suite the needs of the Russian people, many communist countrys probably followed Lenin's rule. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh yeah. I remember learning about that as well as how Mao modified Marx's theories to suit the situation in China where the the population is consisted of mainly peasants. However, both Lenin and Mao's final goal is the same as Marx's: to provide a utopia for their people at all cost. Both made some strides but ultimately failed because as I stated before pure communism could not be achieved. Edited March 16, 2006 by julianw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Elven6 needs to go read the Capital and the Communist Manifesto. Also, I's like to remind you that Marxism-Leninism and Marxism are 2 different things. Then please tell us what you think of Lenin? If he is no Dictator why is his body still preserved! The butterflies in my glass box are also communists then. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 What? Most basic reason for crime is poverty, not power.No... the basic reason for crime is law. And beyond that, greed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, yeah. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I bet $10 that Fionavar is going to close this thread. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Tell me something Elven6, was Lenin true to the communist idea when he, - Established a Secret Police - Established Labour camps - Executed people in the opposition - Agreed that executing the Czar family was a swell idea "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elven6 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Elven6 needs to go read the Capital and the Communist Manifesto. Also, I's like to remind you that Marxism-Leninism and Marxism are 2 different things. Then please tell us what you think of Lenin? If he is no Dictator why is his body still preserved! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The butterflies in my glass box are also communists then. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never said they were the same did I Also under Lenin many people who were poor propspered, they had food to eat and money to spend, under the Tzar what did the poeple have? Besides he was leader for 7 years and then he died, he coulden't build a utophia and everyone has diffrent mind. For instance Lenin worked on prospering and Stalin worked on strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Elven6 needs to go read the Capital and the Communist Manifesto. Also, I's like to remind you that Marxism-Leninism and Marxism are 2 different things. Then please tell us what you think of Lenin? If he is no Dictator why is his body still preserved! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The butterflies in my glass box are also communists then. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never said they were the same did I Also under Lenin many people who were poor propspered, they had food to eat and money to spend, under the Tzar what did the poeple have? Besides he was leader for 7 years and then he died, he coulden't build a utophia and everyone has diffrent mind. For instance Lenin worked on prospering and Stalin worked on strength <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lenin let 3 000 000 people starve to death. Was that communistic? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Mothman you realize Wikipedia can be edited by anyone right Do you think George Washington didn't encounter resistance when he fought the British? When things change people don't agree with it which causes rebellions <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it's good enough for meta, it's good enough for me. Anyway, did you have a point anywhere else in that post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Also under Lenin many people who were poor propspered, they had food to eat and money to spend, under the Tzar what did the poeple have? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They had the very same. Food to eat and money to spend. Have like read history or something? This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elven6 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Links? The point is many people who were dying were Loyal to the Tzar, these people were part of the White army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Also under Lenin many people who were poor propspered, they had food to eat and money to spend, under the Tzar what did the poeple have? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They had the very same. Food to eat and money to spend. Have like read history or something? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think he has. He just may want to try not using old history textbooks from the U.S.S.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Links? The point is many people who were dying were Loyal to the Tzar, these people were part of the White army <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So genocide is acceptable mean in order achieve a communistic utopia? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elven6 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) Hey I could if I wanted, just need to go to India they had a cultural exchange during their Alliance I mean their are a lot of people who speak Hindi in the former republics. Also if you know how to read a book you would notice people thought the new Tzar could help them but he kept the wealth for himself and let his people starve. I didn't say Genocide was neceassry, I am saying many of the people who die are revolutinarys which means they fight in a battlle were they can die. In lamens terms Change= disapointment= rebellion= fighting= death for many Edited March 16, 2006 by Elven6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) Hey I could if I wanted, just need to go to India they had a cultural exchange during their Alliance I mean their are a lot of people who speak Hindi in the former republics. Also if you know how to read a book you would notice people thought the new Tzar could help them but he kept the wealth for himself and let his people starve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, so that makes Lenin a peaceful, benevolent leader despite all the deaths he caused in his own rise to power? Maybe you never heard of the time in 1918 when a circus clown in Moscow was making fun of the Bolsheviks, and Chekists (secret police set up by Lenin) in the crowd pulled out their guns and shot several laughing people. Yeah, Lenin was a great guy. Edited March 16, 2006 by Mothman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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