What ever happened to

[metadigital]

Does it come with a joystick and chewing gum?

[alanschu]

Well, it's just that his big beef is with the companies no longer making the games that he likes to play.

 

Geneforge is a throwback to those old school RPG goodness, and it's cheap.

 

 

Though I do find it interesting how many "hardcore RPG" fans find many excuses to not get it. I think they just don't want to admit that they don't like the dated graphics.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Thats one of those Spidersoft games isnt it ?

 

I'm pretty sure I played it. I seem to recall having a little lizard like creature.

[alanschu]

Yes it's a Spiderweb Software game.

[Gabrielle]

I hav no probelems with sequels provided that they are good and made basically by the same people who do the games prior.

[mkreku]

I think the Elder Scrolls is a great example of a series that never gets stale, even though it is a series. Arena->Daggerfall->Morrowind->Oblivion. None of them uses the same engine, and they are all very different from each other. In fact, only the setting remains intact from sequel to sequel.

 

Redguard and Battlespire are spin-offs set in the same setting (universe) as the Elder Scrolls games, but they are not part of the series.

 

I don't mind sequels (actually, I like them) when they are made the way Bethesda does them (although I only like Daggerfall so far), but when they are done in the way of Icewind Dale->Icewind Dale 2, it's milking it.

 

Gothic->Gothic 2 was great, even though the games were a bit too similar. Gothic 3 will be vastly different though.

[BattleCookiee]

I hav no probelems with sequels provided that they are good and made basically by the same people who do the games prior.

 

Then you must hate Fallout 2

And Kotor2 and NWN2

 

And on-topic:

 

No to the sequels. Yes to original games like Majesty, Deus Ex, Republic etc.

Edited March 1, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[Kalfear]

Shesh, people take stuff said so literally!

 

By sequel I mean new games in the same light so to speak!

 

They could make a entire new KotOR game thats set in the same period but has entire new cast and totally different storyline and that would be fine with me (well unless its a bastilla game of course).

 

Think (if yas remember that far back) SSI Gold Box games. Each game was its own stand alone but all were developed around the same successful formula!

 

KotOR series could easily do this.

 

JE plans to do this (just taking their freaking time about it).

 

So dont take sequel as K1 and K2 and K3, all one story playing out. Seperate game with new characters and story is fine, just make them is all im saying!

 

The current market is saturated with FPS and RTS (other wise called ACTION RPGS), the traditional RPG venue is NOT saturated and grossly under developed.

 

PS: And no, never played the game you mentioned, honestly never heard of it. Ill take a look for it in Computer store and check it out!

[alanschu]

The current market is saturated with FPS and RTS (other wise called ACTION RPGS), the traditional RPG venue is NOT saturated and grossly under developed.

 

If it wasn't saturated, there would be more of them. Furthermore, if the market of FPS and RTS were saturated, they wouldn't be so successful.

 

Remember, "The market" is not just "what Kalfear wants to play."

 

JE plans to do this (just taking their freaking time about it).

 

Not really. Games don't get made that quickly.

 

 

And if you haven't already, I suggest playing Geneforge

[Kalfear]

The current market is saturated with FPS and RTS (other wise called ACTION RPGS), the traditional RPG venue is NOT saturated and grossly under developed.

 

If it wasn't saturated, there would be more of them. Furthermore, if the market of FPS and RTS were saturated, they wouldn't be so successful.

 

Remember, "The market" is not just "what Kalfear wants to play."

 

JE plans to do this (just taking their freaking time about it).

 

Not really. Games don't get made that quickly.

 

 

And if you haven't already, I suggest playing Geneforge

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL Alan, for every successful FPS or RTS game made there is like 5 that isnt (then there is a ton that barely break even as well)! So yes the market is saturated and that has nothing to do with what I play or dont play!

 

A simple trip into ANY computer store validates that comment.

 

Same thing happened back in the late 80s with RPGs, after the success of titles like SSI Gold box games, wizardy, Ultimas, and Might and Magics, the market was saturated with a ton of less successful (to outright failures) RPGs. To the point they stopped getting made for a few years.

 

But you seem to have your panties in a knot about something (dont know, dont care) so ill leave it at that!

[alanschu]

LOL Alan, for every successful FPS or RTS game made there is like 5 that isnt (then there is a ton that barely break even as well)! So yes the market is saturated and that has nothing to do with what I play or dont play!

 

That's more reflective of the games industry as a whole, rather than just FPS or RTS games.

 

There being lots of games does not mean the market is saturated. I'd wager it's not more saturated than the RPG market.

 

Besides, I'm willing to bet that the games sold poorly due to being a crap game, rather than the market being saturated. I'm not convinced that the sales of FPS 1 were down because sales of FPS 2 were high. If FPS 1 and FPS 2 are both good games, they'll both sell.

 

I think you're confusing market saturation with an abundance of selection.

 

If there's 6 high quality FPS games out there with equal market exposure and essentially everything being equal between them, I can't see the sales of all 6 coming at the expense of the other 5.

 

 

A simple trip into ANY computer store validates that comment

 

When I go into a computer store, all I see are games that people are willing to buy. Not surprisingly, the niche RPG market has very few, the popular FPS/RTS have lots...particularly on the computer.

 

 

But you seem to have your panties in a knot about something (dont know, dont care) so ill leave it at that!

 

If disagreeing with someone is having my panties in a bunch, then everyone here has their panties in a bunch, yourself included. Though I'm not the one tossing out random insults.

Edited March 1, 2006 by alanschu

[Tigranes]

Generally agreeing with Alanschu, except:

 

When I go into a computer store, all I see are games that people are willing to buy. Not surprisingly, the niche RPG market has very few, the popular FPS/RTS have lots...particularly on the computer.

 

Perhaps true for a physical store, but if we're talking general availability (including order-from-company-site, etc)... then the answer becomes less obvious, doesnt it? For example, does the success of Warcraft III push out some of the other RTSs that might well have captured those people - often casual ones that have no time for more than one - 's attention? That may not be saturation in the strict sense, but perhaps that the loss of sales for many FPS/RTS's aren't entirely due to the fact that people don't want to play them.

[Nartwak]

If disagreeing with someone is having my panties in a bunch, then everyone here has their panties in a bunch, yourself included.

I'm going commando!

 

Oh ****, that was stupid. I think I'm channelling the ghost of Hades_One.

 

I've got no beef with sequels. Some of my favorite games are sequels in fact. Metal Gear Solid, System Shock 2, Fallout 2, Gothic 2, Resident Evil 4...

 

The next guy to go "Dur hur their a series" gets themself some leprosy. Try following the bouncing narrative leper guy.

[alanschu]

Generally agreeing with Alanschu, except:

 

When I go into a computer store, all I see are games that people are willing to buy. Not surprisingly, the niche RPG market has very few, the popular FPS/RTS have lots...particularly on the computer.

 

Perhaps true for a physical store, but if we're talking general availability (including order-from-company-site, etc)... then the answer becomes less obvious, doesnt it? For example, does the success of Warcraft III push out some of the other RTSs that might well have captured those people - often casual ones that have no time for more than one - 's attention? That may not be saturation in the strict sense, but perhaps that the loss of sales for many FPS/RTS's aren't entirely due to the fact that people don't want to play them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Then in my opinion there's another variable affecting things: market exposure (which I did mention). Naturally a game with substantially more market exposure is going to do better, simply because it's name is out there (and brand recognition advertising does work).

 

And yes, there may be people that only have the ability to play one game, but in my opinion (and that's all any of us can really do, unless one was willing to take the time to do an analysis of the market), gamers for the most part are pretty affluent. I don't think their buying power is scarce enough. In 2003, a quarter of the people polled purchase at least 1 game per month (some many more) link. This might not seem like much, but according to people at the ESA, E-Poll, and game daily, gamers reported that they anticipate their game purchase frequency to increase (here's a quick catchall link).

 

Furthermore, it's more difficult to saturate a market such as video games. Purchasing one video game does not seem to have much influence on the purchase of a different video game, at least with respect to many appliances and whatnot. People typically don't own 2 or 3 fridges. If I already own a fridge, the chances of me going out and buying another one are slim. This is also irrelevant of my income. And buying a fridge from one company, typically means a loss of a sale for all the other companies (the crux of market saturation). Even in a situation where someone does not have much money to spend on a video game, if an excellent quality game comes out, the cheap cost, in addition to the unique nature (in terms of possible game mechanics, storyline, etc. etc.) means that it is easier to purchase the game, both from a monetary and motivational aspect.

 

If gaming was a much more expensive hobby, then FPS/RTS games may be approaching saturation. But as it stands, I feel the ability (and motivation) to acquire an additional game is quite easy.

 

All of this also ignores subtypes within the genres. Battlefield 2 and Half-Life 2 are both FPS games, but they also appeal to different markets of FPS fans.

[alanschu]

PS: And no, never played the game you mentioned, honestly never heard of it. Ill take a look for it in Computer store and check it out!

 

You'll likely have quite a hard time finding it in a store.

 

Geneforge

[Tigranes]

Fair enough, Alanschu. I was merely exploring the possibility of gamers that are the most casual of gamers - those that find a few games they latch onto for their addictive qualities, but don't really expand onto other games or indeed other 'nodes' of the cultural network. But if the stat-out-of-magic-bag holds up, it is less significant than I had perhaps perceived.

 

On Geneforge: I've seen it before, but how in-depth / interesting are the combat/dialogue systems? And how much of them are there?

[alanschu]

There's three games (well Geneforge games anyways), and they all have demos. I'd suggest giving them a download. They aren't very big.

[metadigital]

He he. It worked, Mr Chu! You posted the link so many times that I HAD to click on it and download the demo. Curse you, it looks really, REALLY GOOD. And I wsa going to write out my reading list instead ... "

 

Are the other games RPGs / just as good?

[alanschu]

I haven't played the Avernum games.

[astr0creep]

I'm finishing Geneforge Demo download now... :D

[metadigital]

They look really well crafted. Should be fun to play.

[alanschu]

If you get the game, we'll have to make a Geneforge thread for all of our Geneforge lovin'

 

 

I should get a commission! :cool:

[metadigital]

Set up a mirror! (It was all down to your never-stop-posting-foot-in-the-door technique ...) ^_^