What is more important in an adventure game?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

oh noes! foiled again!

[Llyranor]

So you're not using NWN2 anymore? Weren't you making a RPG with Magical Volo?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

That's an entirely different project. Me and Magical Volo were in talks of developing a NWN2 module but its currently not in any meaningful development for a couple of reasons. For one, Neverwinter Nights 2 hasn't been released yet (we were hoping to see what the first modders could provide in terms of scripting and creature modeling for some of our ideas).

 

Also, since I haven't made any significant advancement in the module's development, and Volourn was at the time working on his own Neverwinter Nights module, there wasn't much to start with. I've shared some of the concepts I had with him, and hopefully we'll have more to work with as NWN2's release draws near.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Role-Player

[Llyranor]

The plot thickens.

[Pidesco]

I voted story and character interaction. To me this seems to be essential in an adventure game.

 

I was going to post something about gameplay and narrative development fitting together, but Llyranor beat me to it. So I'll just say he really has a point and that I think this is the only way to go for story based games.

 

 

@Roleplayer: Agora sei o teu nome...

[Llyranor]

I share some of the opinions and preferences you've all shown. I think Llyranor was pretty much spot on about a desire to see his model of storydriven choices applied more often, although I'm inclined to believe this is perhaps a more genuine concern regarding roleplaying games... For the most part, I think adventure games do follow that. Of course, I may be wrong.

 

As for puzzles and such, they can often become too much and I also agree that they are sometimes out-of-story and only there to artificially inflate the game's lenght or to present some sort of challenge in otherwise easy games. This doesn't mean they should be entirely removed, but I think the idea of a puzzle often relies on an archaic notion. Obstacles don't have to be about flipping switches or making a nuclear missile out of radioactive bubblegum, a hairpin and a tape recorder. They can be, but they don't have to be. But this isn't to say puzzles wouldn't have a place of their own... In a game where, say, a group of humans are kidnapped and placed in an alien labyrinth to be tested, I'm sure there's a lot of puzzles that could be credibly worked into that (admitedly campy) scenario. Maybe we'd all get bored at all the puzzles eventually, and it would considerably lessen replayability, but in that scenario it could be credible nonetheless.

 

Much as I like Zelda games, at times the puzzle solving becomes boring. The puzzles are nice and sometimes fiendish but nearly always logical, and mostly fun... But their placement in dungeons is usually taxing. Especially when they've been solved but are reset when you leave the room and enter it at a future time.

 

I think puzzles should be great mind twisters but they should also feel more natural to the gameworld rather than just dumped there. I also think they should try to draw more on player perception and ingenuity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, my rant was mostly directed towards RPGs, I guess.

 

That being said, I'd be more intrigued in playing some story-related 'puzzles' than real *puzzles*. Making them subtle and fitting them directly into the storyline makes solving them much more rewarding than if you were told 'okay, you're in PUZZLE mode now, solve away!' 'congrats, now you can carry on!' It's not the puzzles themselves that annoy me, it's how they somehow define the adventure genre. Play one, and you can pretty much tell how the next one would play out in terms of gameplay. It's kinda like once you've played a standard RTS/FPS, you can pretty much adapt easily to the next. WASD, check. Right-click to move. Check. Then every game becomes the same. Go go generalization!

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

@Roleplayer: Agora sei o teu nome...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Est

[Nartwak]

Grr... bark bark... grr...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Photopia?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Speaking of which I'm left with the decision on what kind of setting or theme I'll choose, which will then pretty much determine what story will figure into it. With that said, some of the settings I had in mind were:

• Science Fiction, more likely Cyberpunk
  
• Post Apocalyptic
  
• Superhero
  
• Horror
  
• Fantasy
  
• Weird
  

To more or less expand on each setting or theme... The Cyberpunk theme had a background story pertaining to artificial intelligences striving for freedom and their interactions with their creators.

 

The Post Apoc setting wasn't that much developed, except that it was meant to be about the psychological effect on a human (or group of humans) who managed to survive some cataclysm, and now roam a wasteland.

 

The Superhero thing was basically meant to be an adventure game with some action and strategy elements, but can be worked into something else. It started with the death of the world's greatest hero the very same day the main character decided to become a superhero, and it would be up to him to try and solve the mystery. On the other hand it could initially forget about it and do what he felt like, helping the needy or just kicking their crotch.

 

Horror would likely involve just that, horror. Not sure yet on what scale, but I had written a basic concept about several horror chapters about a man who could experience past actions of murderers.

 

Fantasy would likely involve some magical fantasy setting but without the combat. Perhaps a bit more puzzle intensive but the context was of some kid trying to restore the world via magical artifacts found in ruins.

 

Weird... Well, if I remember correctly it was about Death disappearing from the universe. And about the next person in line to take the mantle of Death stumbling upon a conspiracy of someone else who wanted to take the mantle for itself.

[Pidesco]

From what you say, the Weird story seems to be the most interesting. Would that be set in the land of the dead, or somewhere else? I think such a story could(should?) be set in the real world. The PC could be someone that takes Death's place. He could be the next in line to die, but doesn't die due to Death's disappearance.

[Judge Hades]

Discworld was fun but had over all fairly straight forward puzzles. At least straight forward for me.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

From what you say, the Weird story seems to be the most interesting. Would that be set in the land of the dead, or somewhere else? I think such a story could(should?) be set in the real world.

 

I was thinking of a gameworld which ideally combined both places, the real (or a semblance of it) and the fantastic (a land of the dead).

 

The PC could be someone that takes Death's place. He could be the next in line to die, but doesn't die due to Death's disappearance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You've been reading my notes haven't you?

 

I came up with a setup for the game some years ago, but stumbled upon a problem. Death Jr. pretty much picked up on the same premise, and was then released, so I tried to do something different. In my case, I went with a more or less similar approach to that. Later on I went with a school for youngsters who would all train and study hard in order to be the next in line to take the role of Death. Death was meant to be chosen by a universal council, but one element of the council wanted the role for himself so he tried to sabotage their election by kidnapping all the future candidates. When he strikes at the 'death training camp' the main character is in, was when the story was meant to begin.

[CoM_Solaufein]

The games story is usually always improtant unless it's a hack and slash. A good story with plenty of character interaction with good quests is something I look for in a game.

[Kaftan Barlast]

My advice when making an adventue game is:

• All 'puzzles' must be logical and fit into the storyline.
  

If a character needs to get through a locked door, let him steal a passkey from a guard. Dont make him "take the rubber sheep and put that on the statue so youll get the bicycle pump, now talk with the Polar bear and convince him to build you a hoovercraft.."

 

Thats fun for you, but not the player who has to resort to hours of trial-and-error or simply consult a walkthrough.

[Pidesco]

I was thinking of a gameworld which ideally combined both places, the real (or a semblance of it) and the fantastic (a land of the dead).

 

That was just what I was thinking.

 

 

I came up with a setup for the game some years ago, but stumbled upon a problem. Death Jr. pretty much picked up on the same premise, and was then released, so I tried to do something different. In my case, I went with a more or less similar approach to that. Later on I went with a school for youngsters who would all train and study hard in order to be the next in line to take the role of Death. Death was meant to be chosen by a universal council, but one element of the council wanted the role for himself so he tried to sabotage their election by kidnapping all the future candidates. When he strikes at the 'death training camp' the main character is in, was when the story was meant to begin.

 

That seems like a cool idea.

 

 

My idea would be more centered around an adult with a girlfriend(perhaps wife and kids?) and old parents to take care of who is unwillingly stuck with Death's job. This would be the motivation for him to understand what happened. The basis for the narrative would be Death having to deal with a family and juggle around the job and the land of the dead(think Bettlejuice's social security scenes). Of course, the family doesn't know he's got a new day job.

 

Your idea seems more focused than mine though. And easier to implement.

[alanschu]

I've been thinking about the nature of the adventure genre, or even the RPG genre. So what, both can be storydriven, but the former has implausible puzzles and the latter has combat, crates and stats? All these gaming conventions are just there to remind the player that s/he's just playing a game, and a game needs 'gameplay', right? But what is gameplay?

 

I agree about the puzzles comment.

 

As much as I enjoy a good adventure game, I really liked Fahrenheit because (well, aside from the ending and the required "mystical" elements to make the story work) it was fairly grounded in reality. And I love making snap moral choices. To be honest, the thing I liked most about the scene you described was that I was forced to make a quick decision.

 

But it wasn't anything wierd like finding the spork, with the elastic band, that would let you spin the giant wheel, so you could open the door.

[alanschu]

That's an entirely different project. Me and Magical Volo were in talks of developing a NWN2 module but its currently not in any meaningful development for a couple of reasons. For one, Neverwinter Nights 2 hasn't been released yet (we were hoping to see what the first modders could provide in terms of scripting and creature modeling for some of our ideas).

 

Also, since I haven't made any significant advancement in the module's development, and Volourn was at the time working on his own Neverwinter Nights module, there wasn't much to start with. I've shared some of the concepts I had with him, and hopefully we'll have more to work with as NWN2's release draws near.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm in a bit of the same boat. Though my friend and I still have some preliminary stuff scheduled. We hope to get cracking as quickly as possible when the game finally comes out though.

 

Now that I'm placed in my internship and don't have mountains of homework, I'll have a bit more time on my hands to continue preproduction.

[Jorian Drake]

The problem is, a REALLY good game should have all of the poll options

... well, we just wait what the OE guys make of it :D

[GhostofAnakin]

Ideally I'd like to vote for a combination of things, but based solely on the options given I chose the first option, story.

[Jorian Drake]

Ideally I'd like to vote for a combination of things, but based solely on the options given I chose the first option, story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, thats the 1st impotant

[Diogo Ribeiro]

 

Just as a test, this a character sketch from some time ago. Not really anything interesting or about the gameplay, it was made to give myself an idea on what kind of artwork, and how the main character would likely be.

[mkreku]

Hahaha, nice! My girlfriend would probably love that game, since she's a big fan of Tim Burton and his Nightmare Before Christmas and Corpse Bride.

[Moose]

Grim Fandango meets south park...

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Grim Fandango meets south park...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In what way, exactly?

[Pidesco]

Grim Fandango meets south park...

 

In what way, exactly?

 

 

I think he is insulting your drawing skills. :D