The Savior and the Destroyer

[Darth Jebus]

I don't even know why I'm posting this here, as I haven't visited these boards in awhile, and even more to the point, haven't even thought about Kotor in months. But for some reason, I was bored at work and was browsing the interwurb and decided to do a google for Darth Revan just to see what came up. There were, as you can imagine, various links and pictures and fanfics abound.

 

And I didn't click on any of them.

 

But I found one interesting link from Wikipedia of all places. Now, I'm not a huge fan of Wikipedia but I will say it does have some interesting bit of info over there about a variety of subjects. Here's an excerpt about what they said about our dear Darth Revan:

 

Embracing the dark side, Revan founded a new Sith Empire to defeat the old. To save the galaxy, he would conquer it. To become the galaxy's greatest hero, he would become its greatest villain.

 

That right there, in all the while I've been posting and lurking here, in all the countless threads dedicated to Revan, in all the numerous debates about his (and I say "his" because according to Wikipedia, the canonical view of this character is that he is LS male.) fate and why he fell to the dark side to begin with, this is the most direct and simplified and most alluring reason given to explain the character of Revan.

 

The entry draws heavily from KOTOR 2 and has many quotes from Kreia about Revan and what she thinks happened to him. In fact, the above quote was gleaned from Kreia's comments about her not believing that Revan truly fell to the dark side to combat the true evil that is to come: the True Sith. The original inhabitants of Korriban who were thought to have been extinct. It was these beings that Revan discovered shortly after the destruction of Malachor V. The Sith had not gone extinct, but merely disappeared from view in order to grow stronger, to begin their plans to wage war against the Republic. Many have speculated that it was the True Sith that were actually behind the Mandalorian Wars. And once Revan discovered this info, he knew that only the Dark Lord of the Sith alone could stand against them. So in order to save the Republic, he would destroy it.

 

I have to say, hats off to OE for expanding on Revan's story in this way. What a masterful way to tell a character driven story and I hope they get to finish it. For some reason, this makes me want to go back and play KOTOR 2 again

 

Anyway, I just thought I'd share. And I'm sorry for yet another Revan thread, but I just found the read really interesting. If you haven't seen the entry on Wikipedia check it out. It gave me a new appreciation for the vision that OE had for the series.

[dufflover]

I don't even know why I'm posting this here, as I haven't visited these boards in awhile, and even more to the point, haven't even thought about Kotor in months.

 

 

Maybe you're subconciously looking for a Pazaak player "

 

 

So in order to save the Republic, he would destroy it.

 

Oh geez that's a smart thing to do isn't it

 

I have to say, hats off to OE for expanding on Revan's story in this way.  What a masterful way to tell a character driven story and I hope they get to finish it.  For some reason, this makes me want to go back and play KOTOR 2 again

 

Anyway, I just thought I'd share.  And I'm sorry for yet another Revan thread, but I just found the read really interesting.  If you haven't seen the entry on Wikipedia check it out.  It gave me a new appreciation for the vision that OE had for the series.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well as you've read some people....at least me anyway....think OE made Revan weird.

Edited January 13, 2006 by dufflover

[Guest The Architect]

The question is why didn't Obsidian just stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan? Why did they have to screw it up with there own silly interpretation? And then why did they have to add in this 'True Sith' garbage? The fact is (If you listen to Master Dorak properley in KOTOR...) Revan was evil. If he/she wasn't captured by the Jedi Council he/she would have destroyed both the Republic and the Jedi Order. He/she was corrupt just like Malak was, end of story...And since when does a person who apparently isn't really evil capture and torture or kill Jedi huh? It doesn't make any sense. Folks, do yourself a favour and stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan, not Obsidian's screwed up one.

[BattleCookiee]

Please note that Wikipedia is "freely editable" and thus this explenation can be false according to severl people, and maybe even OE themselves.

 

As it being one "interpretation" by 1 person it can easily be wrong on many fronts and other interpretations...

[The Great Phantom]

Mayhaps if we knew the OE concept of Revan, then we would not be Kath Hounds chowing down on whatever piece of Mission the proverbial Internet Hanharr threw us...

 

Sorry, but bad puns are fun.

[Darth Blivion]

I f Revan's vision for attacking the Republic was to strengthen it for wars ahead, than he is far from the genius Bioware and OE have written him to be. Afterall, a house divided upon itself cannot stand.

[Dyan]

Maybe Revan was just abstract?

[darknesslord]

The question is why didn't Obsidian just stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan? Why did they have to screw it up with there own silly interpretation? And then why did they have to add in this 'True Sith' garbage? The fact is (If you listen to Master Dorak properley in KOTOR...) Revan was evil. If he/she wasn't captured by the Jedi Council he/she would have destroyed both the Republic and the Jedi Order. He/she was corrupt just like Malak was, end of story...And since when does a person who apparently isn't really evil capture and torture or kill Jedi huh? It doesn't make any sense. Folks, do yourself a favour and stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan, not Obsidian's screwed up one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

here's the reason why so many person prefers the bioware's story. because it is SIMPLE and CLICHE, and COMPLETLY STUPID.

 

the true goal of revan (and yes he was wrong and corrupted) was to eliminated the the jedi order, because he was frustrated by their fear and inactivity. That's why he created the sith order, because he knew the jedi would fight the siths no matter what. but after they captured him, (or her) malak continued and tried to destroy the republic.

 

and the reason he captured and tortured jedi was to turn them to his side, and kill those who refuse, just like malachor V

 

but if you prefer a stupid ass who attack the republic for no reason at all other than being (evil) then go and play kotor 1, you obviously dont have the IQ to understant kotor 2

[Plano Skywalker]

but if you prefer a stupid ass who attack the republic for no reason at all other than being (evil) then go and play kotor 1, you obviously dont have the IQ to understant kotor 2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. If you play KOTOR I and listen carefully to what the masters say (and, of course, the now infamous Canderous quote) you get the sense that a number of holes were left in the story on purpose to be filled in later.

 

I don't think this was planned as a proper trilogy but they left enough holes in the plot to make it look like a proper trilogy should the business decision be made to go in that direction.

 

KOTOR 2 filled in those holes nicely. True, BioWare would have probably filled them in differently but they didn't make KOTOR 2.

[Dark Moth]

I f Revan's vision for attacking the Republic was to strengthen it for wars ahead, than he is far from the genius Bioware and OE have written him to be. Afterall, a house divided upon itself cannot stand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yup. If that's OE's thinking, the U.S. would have been a superpower right after the civil war. :D

[darknesslord]

I f Revan's vision for attacking the Republic was to strengthen it for wars ahead, than he is far from the genius Bioware and OE have written him to be. Afterall, a house divided upon itself cannot stand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yup. If that's OE's thinking, the U.S. would have been a superpower right after the civil war. :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

err no. revan attacked to republic to replace it with his own empire. he tought that no matter who won, the victor would be strong enough to defend it

[DeathScepter]

I do argee with DarknessLord.

 

 

Kotor 2's phiosophy is that conflict makes one stronger.

 

 

So Revan set the Jedi Civil War in a Win Win Situation. Remember the Kayyakk computer, Revan did set the Computer up for a backup plan if he lost his memories.

 

 

IF Revan wins, He will have an Empire.

 

IF the Republic, IT will recover and defend itself(in it is how Revan fought it)

 

Revan attack it so if it did win it could recover. But Malak is the brute that used a Sledgehammer to victory while Revan is a Katana.

 

 

Malak does have Redeeming Value as in that Malak can rally the troops and Revan plans the battles and the War out.

 

Revan,after Kotor 1, Set Carth and Canderous in their respect positions of Power for when he returns.

 

 

Carth as an Admiral.

 

Canderous as the Mandalore.

 

 

I do see Revan as a go with the flow type of the guy.

[Dark Moth]

1.  Kotor 2's phiosophy is that conflict makes one stronger.

 

 

2.  So Revan set the Jedi Civil War in a Win Win Situation. Remember the Kayyakk computer, Revan did set the Computer up for a backup plan if he lost his memories.

 

 

3.  IF Revan wins, He will have an Empire.

 

4.  IF the Republic, IT will recover and defend itself(in it is how Revan fought it)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. And you believe that? Then you really need to take a history course, my friend. Sure war can bring strength to a nation, but that really depends on the situation, and for the most part the benefits only come in the long run. More often than not, war drains a nation of its people, finances, and resources. Often, a nation is weakest right after conflict, especially a series of conflicts, as was with the Republic.

 

2. It wasn't for if he lost his memories, it was a mere security measure to make sure only he would be able to access the Star Map. The situation was far from win-win. The war with the Republic was hurting both sides. It cost Revan and the Republic millions of lives and resources. By the end, the Republic was weaker than ever.

 

3. If Revan wins, sure he'll have an empire, but he'll be weak from the war or in the case of the LS ending, the Sith will have been totally defeated.

 

4. The Republic wins, it's a crippled animal. Don't forget in K2, the Republic was on the verge of collapsing even though it won the war against the Sith. Why? Becuase all the previous wars had drained it to the point of exhaustion. Recovery for the Republic would have taken many years, and many more to get to the way it had been. But before then, it would be weak and ripe for the picking. Revan's war would have in no way helped it. And you also need to realize the Republic and Jedi had already seen their share of wars already. They didn't really need an awakening, at least not the way Revan supposedly intended.

 

If Revan really wanted to help the Republic, he would have done a "Gandalf". By that I mean he would have shown the threat of the Sith to the Republic, counseled to them, and prepared them for war. His war of conquest did nothing to help, it only made the situation worse. And don't think it wouldn't work, because it would have. Had the Jedi and the Republic known about the True Sith threat, they would have jumped in immediately. Don't forget, they kept out of the Mandalorian wars because they felt the true threat had yet to present itself. And that threat ended up being the True Sith.

Edited January 14, 2006 by Mothman

[darknesslord]

1.  Kotor 2's phiosophy is that conflict makes one stronger.

 

 

2.  So Revan set the Jedi Civil War in a Win Win Situation. Remember the Kayyakk computer, Revan did set the Computer up for a backup plan if he lost his memories.

 

 

3.  IF Revan wins, He will have an Empire.

 

4.  IF the Republic, IT will recover and defend itself(in it is how Revan fought it)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. And you believe that? Then you really need to take a history course, my friend. Sure war can bring strength to a nation, but that really depends on the situation, and for the most part the benefits only come in the long run. More often than not, war drains a nation of its people, finances, and resources. Often, a nation is weakest right after conflict, especially a series of conflicts, as was with the Republic.

 

2. It wasn't for if he lost his memories, it was a mere security measure to make sure only he would be able to access the Star Map. The situation was far from win-win. The war with the Republic was hurting both sides. It cost Revan and the Republic millions of lives and resources. By the end, the Republic was weaker than ever.

 

3. If Revan wins, sure he'll have an empire, but he'll be weak from the war or in the case of the LS ending, the Sith will have been totally defeated.

 

4. The Republic wins, it's a crippled animal. Don't forget in K2, the Republic was on the verge of collapsing even though it won the war against the Sith. Why? Becuase all the previous wars had drained it to the point of exhaustion. Recovery for the Republic would have taken many years, and many more to get to the way it had been. But before then, it would be weak and ripe for the picking. Revan's war would have in no way helped it. And you also need to realize the Republic and Jedi had already seen their share of wars already. They didn't really need an awakening, at least not the way Revan supposedly intended.

 

If Revan really wanted to help the Republic, he would have done a "Gandalf". By that I mean he would have shown the threat of the Sith to the Republic, counseled to them, and prepared them for war. His war of conquest did nothing to help, it only made the situation worse. And don't think it wouldn't work, because it would have. Had the Jedi and the Republic known about the True Sith threat, they would have jumped in immediately. Don't forget, they kept out of the Mandalorian wars because they felt the true threat had yet to present itself. And that threat ended up being the True Sith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yes, but you forget that the republic never won. it was forfeit because when revan killed malak, the war stopped. and be careful what you say about the jedi. They were scared to go to war, therefor placing their own needs in front of those of the outer rim worlds dying.

 

and for their so called vision, this dark threat camed out of their inactivity. had they gone to the war, maybe the sith would have think twice before attacking. nogood will ever come from inactivity.

 

revan's goal was to protect the galaxy, not the republic, and I think many people here have a hard time seeing the difference. he cared nothing about a republic not able to defend theirselves.

Edited January 14, 2006 by darknesslord

[dufflover]

but if you prefer a stupid ass who attack the republic for no reason at all other than being (evil)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what a Sith Lord does though...

[darknesslord]

but if you prefer a stupid ass who attack the republic for no reason at all other than being (evil)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what a Sith Lord does though...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

even tho I hate to, I have to say that's it's true.... in my stories I make them, something else. but if we take the cannon, they do nothing but try to conquer the galaxy for who knows what.... but anyway what i meant with revan, is that he was not like malak. Bioware did nothing bu a copy of the original trilogy to make money, and it's kinda sad too, I think kotor 2 did a great job of putting serious into the story

[dufflover]

Well in K2, not matter what side you play, it is the end of the Jedi....gee-wizz isn't that familiar too...

[Guest The Architect]

The question is why didn't Obsidian just stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan? Why did they have to screw it up with there own silly interpretation? And then why did they have to add in this 'True Sith' garbage? The fact is (If you listen to Master Dorak properley in KOTOR...) Revan was evil. If he/she wasn't captured by the Jedi Council he/she would have destroyed both the Republic and the Jedi Order. He/she was corrupt just like Malak was, end of story...And since when does a person who apparently isn't really evil capture and torture or kill Jedi huh? It doesn't make any sense. Folks, do yourself a favour and stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan, not Obsidian's screwed up one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

here's the reason why so many person prefers the bioware's story. because it is SIMPLE and CLICHE, and COMPLETLY STUPID.

 

the true goal of revan (and yes he was wrong and corrupted) was to eliminated the the jedi order, because he was frustrated by their fear and inactivity. That's why he created the sith order, because he knew the jedi would fight the siths no matter what. but after they captured him, (or her) malak continued and tried to destroy the republic.

 

and the reason he captured and tortured jedi was to turn them to his side, and kill those who refuse, just like malachor V

 

but if you prefer a stupid ass who attack the republic for no reason at all other than being (evil) then go and play kotor 1, you obviously dont have the IQ to understant kotor 2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I do understand Obsidian's interpretation about what Revan's true goal was fool, don't go jumping to conclusions when you don't know who your talking to. There is no need to get all worked up, it's just a game. And I should never have said what I said though, I do like Obsidian's interpretation, I agree that BioWare's was too simplistic and that Obsidian's is actually better. But I just got a little annoyed when I heard people saying things like Revan never fell to the dark side, etc when the truth is he/she did. That was the point I was trying to get across, but at least you realise that Revan was actually evil. Malak said himself to Revan on the Leviathin 'You are the one who taught me the ways of the Sith.' So they did fall to the dark side. And I do understand Obsidian's interpretation. I know that Revan had good intentions and he/she chose the ways of the Sith because he/she viewed the Jedi as weak cowards and knew they wouldn't fight against the Ancient Sith Empire. But I take back everything I said about Obsdian's version being stupid, it isn't.

[BattleCookiee]

Bioware did nothing bu a copy of the original trilogy to make money

 

I wonder why I hear that that often...

 

Did the main char of the original trilogy was a Darth in the past?

Did the main char of the original trilogy find 4 items/planets/objects before finding the Death Star?

Did the main char of the original trilogy made a great journey with many allies (instead of just R2-D2 and C-3P0?) all the time?

Did Revan get his father revealed to him?

 

Sure, BioWare made a copy of every game they made before, but I don't see the original trilogy match exactly...

[Jorryn Baas]

I think the concept that Revan fell to darkness to save the galaxy works, because in Revans mind, he probably thought he could control the power of the darkside and the star forge. In the end it consumed him. The old saying "The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions" fits perfectly.

 

He saw a threat. He took action. He used any means necessary.

 

Did he make the right choice? Only KoTOR III will tell. LOL. Seriously though, I think it adds depth to his character. For me personally, I was always enthralled by Canderous's description of Revan. He made him seem like a god. But in the end, he was only mortal, and became that which he sought to destroy.

 

I imagine the "True Sith" were quite pleased.

 

Great post Architect, I always loved that wikipedia entry as well.

Edited January 14, 2006 by Jorryn Baas

[Dark Moth]

yes, but you forget that the republic never won. it was forfeit because when revan killed malak, the war stopped.  and be careful what you say about the jedi. They were scared to go to war, therefor placing their own needs in front of those of the outer rim worlds dying.

 

and for their so called vision, this dark threat camed out of their inactivity. had they gone to the war, maybe the sith would have think twice before attacking. nogood will ever come from inactivity.

 

revan's goal was to protect the galaxy, not the republic, and I think many people here have a hard time seeing the difference. he cared nothing about a republic not able to defend theirselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan's actions hurt both the Republic and the Galaxy. And the Jedi would have definitely gone to war if they had known about the True Sith. And the Republic won, becuase it defeated the Sith fleet at the battle of the Star Forge. And after the war, it was a wounded animal, on the verge of collapsing.

 

As for his actions, maybe he did them out of his lust for power? Or maybe because he had become corrupted from the wars? Or maybe that he felt the Republic and Jedi were weak and had to be eliminated?

[BattleCookiee]

Or maybe that he felt the Republic and Jedi were weak and had to be eliminated? 

 

Then why didn't he just used the SF Fleet to annihilate them all?

[germi91]

1. And you believe that? Then you really need to take a history course, my friend. thumbsup.gif Sure war can bring strength to a nation, but that really depends on the situation, and for the most part the benefits only come in the long run. More often than not, war drains a nation of its people, finances, and resources. Often, a nation is weakest right after conflict, especially a series of conflicts, as was with the Republic.

 

Indeed? You are wrong. Wars make a country stronger, not only physically (Economically), but mentally as well. There many examples of this. The USA being one. It always came richer and more powerful after a war. And Europe did become stronger too. Look at it. The European Union came into formation because of the second world war. Or the UN. It came into being because of the second world war. And because people did not want to suffer similar disasters, they approved of this. They learned their lesson. Why do you think humanity as progressed so much? And without war, techonology would not have progressed as fast. Thanks to war, you and everyone else has a computer and internet.

This is what Kreia was trying to say. That people become stronger, not neccesarilly physically, but their will is greater, their morale higher and when you achieve your goal, the satisfaction is great, and the harder or more dangerous the problem, the greater that reward will be.

[BattleCookiee]

???

 

Due to WAR the whole European Union lay in ruins, without a chance of fixing itself. The only reason that we recovered is because big US who stayed out of the war (and thus made big $$$ of us) handed us a part of the money they made by us killing each other...

 

If we didn't got that cash, well, we would have all been USSR now...

Edited January 14, 2006 by Battlewookiee

[DeathScepter]

That is the point of Sith Phiosophy.

 

Thru Conflict, people become stronger.