C.S. Lewis quote

[Dark Moth]

At some point the verbal history and teachings of Christianity was set to paper by some religious person, but by that time the telling of the story became more grandoise.

 

The God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is indeed the same entity.  God is not a stagnant creature that you make him out to be.  He learns and grows just like us.  After all we are a minor reflection of what he is.

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The Gospels were written by disciples and by Paul, all of who existed at Jesus's time, so you were wrong by saying nothing was written down for over 100 years.

 

My point is, the gods of Islam and Christianity have very different natures. Some may not see it that way, but that is how I and many others see it. Also, as I said, this is only based on what I've read, which are secular and theological sources. And as I said, I too believed they were the same gods with the same nature, but my studies changed that opinion. If you view differently, fine.

[Blank]

Pixie, do not think that scripture is "fact" for it is not.  It is simply a subjective statement with the writer putting his own moral values into it.

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I think Pixies was just trying to tell the people that are comparing the three religion's gods' that they need to be backing up their statements with verses from the textual sources of those religions in order to have credibility about their conclusions.

EDIT:

Anyways, what I was saying was that Mothman likes to say a lot of things that sound like his own personal belief, and pass it off as fact.

... he responded for himself, but it is basically what i was saying...

Edited January 2, 2006 by Blank

[Shadowstrider]

The fact that you think the commonly attributed authors are the ACTUAL authors is a fact is more lol than anything. C'mon, you're making this too, too easy to prove you haven't thorougly researched anything you say.

The gospel author's names were second century guesses.

 

Please, do some research.

 

Is it possible that they are the actual authors? Yes. Is it a fact? Hell no.

[Judge Hades]

Mothman, live with your ignorance and blind worthless faith. I don't have the time or patience to shovel all my research that Ihave done during my time at the university how utterly wrong you are so I am just going to leave this discussion. You aren't worth the effort.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Dark Moth]

Pixie, do not think that scripture is "fact" for it is not.  It is simply a subjective statement with the writer putting his own moral values into it.

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I don't know who you are talking about.

 

Anyways, what I was saying was that Mothman likes to say a lot of things that sound like his own personal belief, and pass it off as fact.

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Really? And Shadowstrider isn't?

 

Mothman, live with your ignorance and blind worthless faith.  I don't have the time or patience to shovel all my research that I have done during my time at the university  how utterly wrong you are so I am just going to leave this discussion.  You aren't worth the effort.

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Fine. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. But I will politely insist that I believe I am right, and this comes from my own research.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Mothman

[Dark Moth]

The fact that you think the commonly attributed authors are the ACTUAL authors is a fact is more lol than anything.  C'mon, you're making this too, too easy to prove you haven't thorougly researched anything you say.

The gospel author's names were second century guesses.

 

Please, do some research.

 

Is it possible that they are the actual authors?  Yes.  Is it a fact?  Hell no.

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A lot of history work is guesses. We don't have any solid evidence that people like Socrates existed either, only what was written down. My point is, that is what I believe based on the evidence at hand.

 

You see, I have done research, and that is how I formed my opinion. You however share a different opinion and view it as fact and are trying to prove me wrong. I have done research, it has just brought me different conclusions than you. The sooner you realize it, the better.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Mothman

[Blank]

The fact that you think the commonly attributed authors are the ACTUAL authors is a fact is more lol than anything.  C'mon, you're making this too, too easy to prove you haven't thorougly researched anything you say.

The gospel author's names were second century guesses.

 

Please, do some research.

 

Is it possible that they are the actual authors?  Yes.  Is it a fact?  Hell no.

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well, it is written into the scripture:

1Paul, an apostle

[Judge Hades]

And I will point out again that the Bible is not a credible source.

[Dark Moth]

And I will point out again that the Bible is not a credible source.

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You could say that for any historical source, as anything can be altered. Point is, we just make assumptions based on what we have at hand.

[Shadowstrider]

Wow... guys. The point of debate isn't for me to teach you.

 

One of the fundamentals of modern bible scholarship is that the people attributed with the four gospels are not the likely authors. Everyone knows the Bible says they are who wrote them. No one questions whether or not the bible says what it says.

 

http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Evangelists.htm

 

Welcome to modern biblical study.

[Judge Hades]

Or you just don't make assumptions.

 

The only real evidence we have is that the bible has been translated, revised, retranslated, and so forth and so on over the last 2000 years that there is no way to know what the original texts said. There is no way to determine that, therefore it is not credible.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Gabrielle]

And I will point out again that the Bible is not a credible source.

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It's a book of myth. Most of those stories were handed down after generation after generation verbally, not written. Stories based of verbal comminucation are usually not the same story after a couple of generations. Things are omitted, exagerated, forgotten, etc. It was a couple hundreds of years before they ever wrote the bible stories down.

 

So I say again a nice story of mythology.

[Judge Hades]

Oh, I found the dates when the various books were written. Okay, not a hundred years but each and every book of the New testament was written at least 20 yeas after the death of Jesus.

 

http://www.carm.org/bible/biblewhen.htm

[Gabrielle]

I was refering to the old testament since writing skills of that time period were few and far between.

[Judge Hades]

I agree.

[Blank]

Wow... guys.  The point of debate isn't for me to teach you.

 

One of the fundamentals of modern bible scholarship is that the people attributed with the four gospels are not the likely authors.  Everyone knows the Bible says they are who wrote them.  No one questions whether or not the bible says what it says.

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... that sentence doesn't make sense, "No one questions whether or not the bible says what it says." thats like saying, "no one questions whether or not the newspaper says what it says". nobody in their right mind should ask that question, since you can solve it for yourself by looking at it with your eyes. Do you mean, "no one questions whether or not what the bible says has not been changed" ? or are you asking us if we live in the matrix or something?

[Judge Hades]

The bible has changed from its original text to now. Just the fact that it has so many versions and been translated so many times is evident of that.

[Blank]

Oh, I found the dates when the various books were written.  Okay, not a hundred years but each and every book of the New testament was written at least 20 yeas after the death of Jesus.

 

http://www.carm.org/bible/biblewhen.htm

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it makes sense to me that the authors would wait until Jesus was gone to start writing, since i personally wouldn't want to miss a moment spending time with God incarnate.

[Shadowstrider]

The sentence makes sense. The bible says what it says. No one questions that. People question whether what the bible says is accurate, and the meaning of what it says. Not how the texts read.

[Blank]

The sentence makes sense.  The bible says what it says.  No one questions that.  People question whether what the bible says is accurate, and the meaning of what it says.  Not how the texts read.

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oh.. it just didn't make sense to me without you saying the next thing in the same sentence: "People question whether what the bible says is accurate, and the meaning of what it says."

[Shadowstrider]

The sentence makes sense.  The bible says what it says.  No one questions that.  People question whether what the bible says is accurate, and the meaning of what it says.  Not how the texts read.

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oh.. it just didn't make sense to me without you saying the next thing in the same sentence: "People question whether what the bible says is accurate, and the meaning of what it says."

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It still makes sense, just not to you

 

Nevermind the little details.

[Colrom]

I don't know about the C. S. Lewis quote. It doesn't seem like wisdom or knowledge to me.

 

As for the subsequent discussion:

 

The quote from Romans can be taken many ways - especially in view of the context.

 

The quote from Revelation rejoices in the punishments of hell. Typical of Revelation.

 

Many don't consider Revelation as Gospel. For example, Luther concluded it was not of God.

 

I think he was right. Seems more like it might be Satan's work, actually.

 

C.S. Lewis talks more about his views on little sins and big sins in the Screwtape Letters.

[Child of Flame]

Alright, then, Shadowstrider.  Prove me wrong.  Judging from your posts in the past, you don't seem to have high knowledge of the subject, either.  Or maybe you weren't here when I listed a whole bunch of Quran verses which contradict the Bible, including reasons why Allah and the God of Judaism weren't the same?  Or also maybe you're not aware of how Islam teaches that Christianity and Judaism are corrupt faiths?

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Maybe I should pull out the dozens of quotes where the Bible contradicts the Bible? Or where the Bible states that Jews aren't saved?

 

Your statements proves nothing, other than your completely absurd idealic view of the Bible. The only reason it seems I don't have knowledge is you haven't done your research properly. Ofcourse Islam teaches Christianity and Judaism is corrupt, but that doesn't mean it is any less spawned by the religion of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

Honestly, you need to do some research.

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Shadowstrider FTW!

 

There's a phrase I never thought I'd say!

[Blank]

The quote from Romans can be taken many ways - especially in view of the context.

even if Romans 6:23 was taken out of context (and it is not, maybe you should read it again), here are other verses that say the same basic thing:

 

Romans 5:12

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--"

 

Deuteronomy 24:16

"Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

 

James 1:15

"Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death."

 

1 Corinthians 15:56

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;"

 

The quote from Revelation rejoices in the punishments of hell. Typical of Revelation.

hmm, it doesn't look like you read it then... here's the whole quote:

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

there is no rejoicing there... from now on i will be much more skeptical of your unsupported opinions/statements.

[thepixiesrock]

I see this thread is stil alive and kicking. And so is Shadow.