Why did Troika make ToEE?

[Kaftan Barlast]

I got "The Temple of Elemental Evil" just because I was very curious about the combat system (since I want to develop CRPGs when I graduate or as a uni project) and I cant quite understand why Troika, who could actually make top notch ROLE-PLAYING games, would turn 180degrees and make a HacknSlash?

 

 

I understand they wanted to stay true to the PnP adventure that is almost entirely focused on combat but why make ToEE and not a D&D adventure of their own, Troika-style?

Edited December 18, 2005 by Kaftan Barlast

[Judge Hades]

Who knows. Troika is dead. They are no longer relevant.

[mkreku]

Off topic, slightly, but has anyone heard of a mod for Temple of Elemental Evil called Circle of Eight? It's supposed to be quite good from what I hear, but I haven't had time to try it out myself.

 

Feel free to add your opinions if you've tried it. If you haven't, hey, now you've got something to do )

 

Edit: Spelling as usual.

Edited December 18, 2005 by mkreku

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Wasnt hack and slash, it was a combat simulator.

 

Had the AI not been totally braindead and not rendered 90% of the options little more than stuff to mess around with it might have actually been good.

[Judge Hades]

Tried it out a few months back and couldn't get the game to work right with it. It was a below average game with good combat options and nothing more. Its one of those play and forget games.

[Janmanden]

1. I cant quite understand why Troika, who could actually make top notch ROLE-PLAYING games, would turn 180degrees and make a HacknSlash?
   
2. I understand they wanted to stay true to the PnP adventure that is almost entirely focused on combat but why make ToEE and not a D&D adventure of their own, Troika-style?
   

1. Troika was making ToEE and Vampire TM: Bloodlines around the same time. My assumption is that all the tech-heads went into ToEE and all the creative minds into Bloodlines. Both games have some issues due to this split evidently. Having played both it feels like two different developers doing it, which supports my notion.
   
2. Somehow I don't think, that Troika really had the finances to develop a unique property at the time. They probably needed to make some money. And maybe ToEE was a lovechild too.
   

[Darque]

Why'd they make it... money.

 

Isn't that why any development house makes any game?

[Kaftan Barlast]

1. That may have been true, I know I would much rather have picked Bloodlines to be a designer for.

 

 

2. But ToEE doesnt really offer much in terms of a complete adventure, a team of talented Designers could have written something far better in just a few weeks. The only reason I cant think of it that ATARi and/or WotC forced them to make a crpg version of ToEE, threatening to deny them the D&D license if they didnt.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

2. But ToEE doesnt really offer much in terms of a complete adventure, a team of talented Designers could have written something far better in just a few weeks. The only reason I cant think of it that ATARi and/or WotC forced them to make a crpg version of ToEE, threatening to deny them the D&D license if they didnt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They picked the module. I'd have gone with the D or G series myself. Much more interesting.

[Volourn]

BL, inspite of its good role-playing, is very much the defibition of 'hack n slash'. And, it's combat is 1000x worse than TOEE's.

 

Also, Troika chose TOEE because theyw ere asked by Atari to choose a pre existing D&D pnp module IIRC.

 

TOEE has a great combat system; but poor combat.

[Gabrielle]

What's wrong with hack n slash? It gets tiring after a while doing fetch 'em quests and save the world the the hundredth time.

[Judge Hades]

As long as it is hack and slash done right.

 

Icewind Dale 1 does hack and slash right. ToEE does not.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

What's wrong with hack n slash? It gets tiring after a while doing fetch 'em quests and save the world the the hundredth time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The key is to have such a compelling story that it dosnt occur to the player just how dull the tasks that drive it are.

[Janmanden]

1. BL, inspite of its good role-playing, is very much the defibition of 'hack n slash'. And, it's combat is 1000x worse than TOEE's.
   

1. You just keep repeating your mistakes. (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dereris.) BL combat is ALSO fun. Combat is the ONLY fun in ToEE.
   

[Gabrielle]

But sometimes mindless hack n slash is good. It satisfies the bloodlust in some of us who wouldn't dare do it for real.

[Judge Hades]

That is what Icewind Dale is for and why ToEE gathers dust.

[Darque]

That is what Icewind Dale is for and why ToEE gathers dust.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

no

[Gabrielle]

That's what I like about Diablo. Plus a huge bonus is going out and PKing someone else who can fight back better than a creatures AI.

[Gabrielle]

That is what Icewind Dale is for and why ToEE gathers dust.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

no

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No? Are you sure?

[Kaftan Barlast]

If you enjoy killing stuff then go buy and action game, I think HackNSlash CRPGs are a fundamentally bad idea.

[Gabrielle]

Action games are usually FPS which I dislike and they are usually set in a modern setting. I like the good old sword and magic.

[Volourn]

"BL combat is ALSO fun."

 

No, no it isn't. It's boring. It's easy. It's repetive.

 

 

 

As for the other argument, I have no problem with hack 'n' slash. I ahve a problem with mindless hack 'n' slash.

 

Some of my favorite NWN PWs are hack n slash as in teh focus is 100% on combat; but it's fun and definitely not mindless. BL is definitely of the mindless avriety as is TOEE but nowhere near as bad as BL. IWD is also not mindless hack 'n' slash.

[Janmanden]

1. 
   "BL combat is ALSO fun."
    
   
2. No, no it isn't. It's boring. It's easy. It's repetive.
    
   
3. As for the other argument, I have no problem with hack 'n' slash. I ahve a problem with mindless hack 'n' slash.
    
   
4. Some of my favorite NWN PWs are hack n slash as in teh focus is 100% on combat; but it's fun and definitely not mindless.
    
   
5. BL is definitely of the mindless avriety as is TOEE but nowhere near as bad as BL.
    
   
6. IWD is also not mindless hack 'n' slash.
   

I'm not quite sure how to respond to all this 'mindless' bs you seem to be so fond of. I think all the 'mindlessness' of your post is getting pretty mindless. If you had been more mindful of your comments and said it was a pretty sucky game, then I would have to agree, as I sucked my way thru BL. :D

1. That's your opinion. I think it's fun, challenging and highly varied thanks to different clans with different abilities, different combat options, combat moves and disciplines. Of course it requires you to actually try out of different clans, styles of character development and tactics, to avoid the routine. But that goes for ANY game, including IWD and NWN. If you know what you are doing you can easily create a character that's gonna ruin gameplay totally - does that make a play or the player mindless? I think it's the latter. "
   There are some places (with respawning monsters) where you can get caught in repetititve mindless combat if you don't move on...and in some places you don't even have to do the mindless thing to move on. It's up to you to decide. Separating exp from kills eliminates that concern, doesn't have to keep doing the mindless thing that those other games you mention as not being mindless requires you to do to get exp...
   
2. Watching a game play itself, that's mindless and that's what all the isometric click and kill games do...and what BL doesn't do...and neither do ToEE, actually. So...
   
3. I wasn't impressed with NWN, for a number of reasons, but I wouldn't call it mindless (except in some cases where damage resistance is totally ruining any challenge in the game), simply because of the style of the player. :cool:
   
4. As I've said before, if you read the lines and between them: any game can be mindless if you play it mindlessly...and apparently you do that a lot, maybe you have a handicap or something?
   
5. I was really bored with IWD and I've never completed IWD2 for the same reason as well. Dragging a faceless party around, getting them lost and killing stuff with a single click of a button... Especially the mindle... 'faceless' (no personalities) part was boring. <_<
   

[Darque]

That is what Icewind Dale is for and why ToEE gathers dust.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

no

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No? Are you sure?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

TOEE > IWD

[Volourn]

"As I've said before, if you read the lines and between them: any game can be mindless if you play it mindlessly...and apparently you do that a lot, maybe you have a handicap or something?"

 

FDon't blame me for BL's combat ebing boring, simple, and mindless. Thanbkfully, it's role-playing is top notch 'cause the combat is mindless. There is no (or very little as there are always exceptions) thinking involved.