Main K2 Plot Devices & overall KotOR Universe

[dufflover]

I found a lot of the ideas used in K2 rather stupid and there's a lot of discussion with stuff like Revan going off or True Sith or the obsession with the word echo. Like I personally think they took some of these Star Wars themes too far. For instance in K1 the romance is referring to Episode II but at least the outcomes can vary, but in say K2, it has the whole Jedi Purge thing to it but whatever you end up doing they die anyway....great selection of choices there.

 

Then you got the True Sith which I think is just stupid (mainly cos it's Revan/you who goes running screwing up all of your good work in K1 ). The Force Wounds I'm hoping was a Kreia fib but just like the True Sith, Obsidian/LA seem pretty determined to make it a true thing.

 

I suppose I just find it disappointing that of all the possible avenues (for instance the Rakata were completely ignored) of continuing the story they chose this set of story elements.

 

Doesn't help when the game has it's own issues as well...

 

Now this may sound contradictory but I don't the game is bad overall...just when you block out what you're actually doing and just focus on gameplay.

[Brdavs]

Have to go with all stipid even thoe i love the game... go figure

 

I mean force wounds.... wth? Besides SW universe was always stricly divided to LS and DS and it worked great, none of this "gray" stuff.... it took all the pleasure from playing strictly LS/DS cos this neutral stuff was being fed in by that old nag... im not saying it doesnt make sense or makes one think, but it kinda feels out of place in the universe where the good guy was always good and the bad dudes evil to the core... if it aint broke dont fix it i say...

[Sikon]

I'd say the True Sith thing is stupid, however, it feels like a forced decision from LucasArts. Kreia's mumblings let me under the impression they were reluctant to even mention the True Sith.

The two other options may be questionable to be appropriate, but not stupid. The compulsory doom of the Jedi and the Sith doesn't seem so strange when you consider that Kreia was manipulating you into revealing and destroying the remnants of both. And the ultimate fate of both orders does depend on you: if you're LS and set Revan to be LS, you know there are some Jedi left (like Atris and Bastila), if you're DS, you become a Sith and use Malachor as your residence, while all the Jedi are apparently obliterated.

[dufflover]

And the ultimate fate of both orders does depend on you: if you're LS and set Revan to be LS, you know there are some Jedi left (like Atris and Bastila), if you're DS, you become a Sith and use Malachor as your residence, while all the Jedi are apparently obliterated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose ultimate fate of Jedi or Sith makes sense, but being influenced by the concept art, and also the fact that the Jedi are already defeated, I was expecting the LS game to lead to a...I guess a rebirth of the Jedi by re-uniting them and then a showdown with the "Fake" Sith. Well, the way they win I suppose is not important but in LS, the surviving Jedi are still gonna be in hiding or besides from Bastila (who may not even be a Jedi, although I would think she still is ) you only have a few rag-tag Jedi around. :ph34r:

Edited November 27, 2005 by dufflover

[Sikon]

I think the concept art was deliberately made that way - showing the audience a false protagonist and a false antagonist.

And why do you say Bastila may not even be a Jedi? The "rag-tag Jedi" you mention are not Jedi, but Bastila is.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Sikon

[Janmanden]

You underestimate the power of the Force where past, present and future all connects thru the Force...

 

As long as the story is well connected (thru the Force) anything goes.

 

To me anything that isn't in the game doesn't exist. If I see Darth Vader and Anakin both in the same scene, I'll expect them to dodge the beliefs towards the fans, that they should be the one and the same person - with a manically glee, but until they are rooted in the story their own background story is unknown to me. Of course that's not going to happen, because Lucas would most likely intervene and a million die hard fanatics would go nuts...but it's a kind of fun we've come to expect from games like Fallout...easter eggs.

 

There are a lot of things in Movies or Games that just isn't equally exciting to do. I read the opionions of someone complaining about why the Jedi even had lightsabers, because they are totally not needed with those Force powers they have...except perhaps when they pick locks or need a haircut...not that the latter seemed to work very well.

 

Gray? I like this humanization of the Force users....Kreia, Jolee Bindo, even Bastila and Juhani which are at odds with their emotions and conflicting ideas. It's SO good to see. It adds a lot of thought to the equasion and is a lot more immersive when everything isn't obvious...as in Games that make you think...flexing the GRAY matter In other words LS and DS is the braindead pursuit..

 

True Sith? Even the Rakata could have been a slave race, they can't really be trusted in a gray world. Remember how they couldn't enter that uh, Tower? They say they've lost their connection to the force or they've become thin-bloods, yeah sure...I'd say that too at the prospects of power when I meet a gullible main character...

 

To me, KOTOR is still exploring the concepts and advancing the world and is thus still grasping for straws - and that's ok, because so am I. Hopefully we'll meet eventually, but until then they should really focus on creating an exiting credible world...and I agree, K2 didn't fare so well in that department...unless they were really trying to kill the entire SW universe to rebuild it from scratch in K3...one Jedi with a bunch of apprentices left to...

 

When I spoke with Atris she agreed to be my trainer, but as we all know that never happens...but I kept asking Handmaiden to take me back, wondering when that was gonna happen...and then Atton is magically able to go back there withuot the docking codes in pursuit of the handmaiden... Hmmmm... Yeah, that's.. just uh, dandy.

 

If it ain't broke fix it until it is...

[dufflover]

As long as the story is well connected (thru the Force) anything goes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Considering how the whole idea of the Force is rooted in K2 (obviously my personal view) then I don't it can really apply. It's a bit like those other fantasy worlds of say Lord of the Rings or Final Fantasy, where practically everything has one of those fancy pants names like "The Sword of Abdul-Jabar" . My point is that they seemed too desperate to extend the game too far away from "typical" Star Wars and more focused towards certain players.

[vaxen83]

Some of the events in TSL were hardly synchronised to be in tune with the game. It is hard to understand why Sith Assassins would bow to a PC before entering the Trayus Academy. (No mention of involvement in a fight with them)

[darknesslord]

Some of the events in TSL were hardly synchronised to be in tune with the game. It is hard to understand why Sith Assassins would bow to a PC before entering the Trayus Academy. (No mention of involvement in a fight with them)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

because kreia told sion to treat him with respect. but once in the academy, they seems to magically forget it (rushed ending)

[Cassidy]

"The Sword of Abdul-Jabar"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*Kareem Abdul-Jabar* hehe... The sword of basketball...

Edited November 29, 2005 by Cassidy

[dufflover]

"The Sword of Abdul-Jabar"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*Kareem Abdul-Jabar* hehe... The sword of basketball...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Simpsons: Homer a.k.a "Elvis Jagger Abdul-Jabbar"

[Kalfear]

I found a lot of the ideas used in K2 rather stupid and there's a lot of discussion with stuff like Revan going off or True Sith or the obsession with the word echo. Like I personally think they took some of these Star Wars themes too far. For instance in K1 the romance is referring to Episode II but at least the outcomes can vary, but in say K2, it has the whole Jedi Purge thing to it but whatever you end up doing they die anyway....great selection of choices there.

 

Then you got the True Sith which I think is just stupid (mainly cos it's Revan/you who goes running screwing up all of your good work in K1    ). The Force Wounds I'm hoping was a Kreia fib but just like the True Sith, Obsidian/LA seem pretty determined to make it a true thing.

 

I suppose I just find it disappointing that of all the possible avenues (for instance the Rakata were completely ignored) of continuing the story they chose this set of story elements.

 

Doesn't help when the game has it's own issues as well...

 

Now this may sound contradictory but I don't the game is bad overall...just when you block out what you're actually doing and just focus on gameplay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Though I think they mentioned wounds and such far to much in the dialog, over all I like the wound or echo in the force idea! Its an interesting idea/concept and fit well into the Star Wars theme.

 

Even though I hate K2s ending, Im SO FREAKING glad Obsidian didnt just turn out anouther grade school storyline that Star Wars in whole has becoming! K2 adds some grit to Star Wars. Its not all pure goodie vrs ultimate baddie with the fate of the republic in the balance and the hero gets the girl, rehashed and blended over and over!

 

K2 made you think about the storyline, in many of the conversation settings I found myself taking the neu tral path rather then the goodie path BECAUSE YOU WERE ALLOWED TO!

 

I seriously think to many people just looking for your basic fantasy/sci fi - romance setting (K1) thats been done so many times before its old and boring! Open your minds to new ideas people!

 

I still prefer playing th e goodie in games but even the best goodie doesnt ALWAYS choose the perfect goodie option, and Obsidian took that into account and should be congradulated for doing so IMO.

[dufflover]

You don't need a "deep" game to avoid the whole classic Good vs Bad thing. You can do it via other ways like having say a mystery. For instance Star Trek: A Final Unity (very old game) had very simple gameplay but final story was a combination of all the sub-missions you had done.

 

You could've easily had a game of equal uniqueness with a Good vs Bad (or neutral) without all this deep BS - they put themselves in a ditch by making you look for Jedi Masters in the first place. Again I'll refer to that Star Trek game, you could travel freely; the story itself was linear so going back to old planets was useless but KotOR could've used this and just added reasons to go back.

[Blank]

I seriously think too many people just looking for your basic fantasy/sci fi -  romance setting (K1) thats been done so many times before its old and boring! Open your minds to new ideas people!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am one of those "too many people". We think that we enjoy our old and boring ideas and we also think that they don't get old. that is why we are too "many" and not only a "few".

 

K1's romance was slightly cheesy at parts (i've said this before on another thread). Whereas K2's romance was not complete, (the game itself wasn't complete )

 

Kalfear, you should try writing a romance for a sci-fi/fantasy and then attempt to satisfy everyone; it won't work.

 

I didn't mind the "true sith" junk they had. and i didn't think the "echo" was so overused as many people believe, i mean, they say it like 15 to 20 times. you all must've gone to Kreia a whole bunch and went through the same loophole dialogue.

 

<warning: rant>

 

Rpg's with relatively linear stories are better i think than smelly pieces of slimy poop such as: elder scrolls 3 morrowind which i recently bought used (looking for an rpg to pass the time) and was very dissappointed in. not my type of RPG. it was like a MMORPG without the second M and the O and without quality for the R and P. basically it was in its own money-wasting genre. in essence, an MRPG: Massively Really Pathetic Game. The fighting system compared to Kotor was sorely lacking to say the least. The graphics were also atrocious. and no parties? wHAt!? NO PARTIES IN AN RPG!??! i would take Final Fantasy 7 graphics over that any day. And Final Fantasy 7 was made in '97. Mhehh, this game i need to go destroy... right now... serious... no game has ever made me feel this way. i'll be back when i am done.

 

 

Okay, back... i much better now

Guys, just be happy there are people from Obsidian and Bioware that brought to us a coulple of good RPG's with romance in them too. i appreciate the creators more because of this experience.

[The Dark Master]

the olny bad things about the game was that so much was cut out and that you have to have perfect timing when trying to turn a partymember into a jedi, or the opportunity will be lost forever