Restoration of the Jedi Order

[DAWUSS]

This thread is intended for speculation about the possible fate of the Jedi Order after KOTOR II.

What we have of the Jedi heritage?

1. Atris, a semi-insane Jedi Master who fell to the dark side and was redeemed by Exile. The only known official Jedi Master. Can possibly be corrupted by the Sith holocrons again or even killed by them. Either way, the holocrons are there for something. Dead in the DS ending.

2. Bastila, a Jedi Padawan who miraculously survived the period between K1 and K2, possibly as fan service. (Who wouldn't be enraged if Obsidian killed her off-screen?) Plays a minor role in K2, but her whereabouts are unknown in the DS ending of K1. Well, it isn't canonical anyway, but something to consider if they decide to implement all 16 endings in K3. The only known official Jedi besides Atris and Revan.

3. Brianna (Handmaiden), who succeeds Atris as a historian in the LSM ending. It is unclear, though, if being a "historian" implies being a Jedi.

4. Exile. Not officially a Jedi, since his/her punishment was not lifted by the last known Council on Dantooine. Unlikely to participate in the restoration process due to being in the Unknown Regions (LS) or on Malachor V (DS).

5. Mical (Disciple). Becomes a Jedi Council member in the LSF ending. Probably doesn't discover his Force-sensitivity at all in the LSM ending. Nevertheless, being a historian, can be valuable for the Jedi.

6. Revan. I dare not speculateth about Him, ye prophets of Revan the Almighty.

7. Atton, Bao-Dur, Mira and Visas. Force-sensitive, received some basic training from Exile, but not confirmed to become Jedi. In possible DS endings, Mira and/or Visas are dead. I'd say Visas is the one most likely to join the Jedi Order.

 

Structures:

1. The Academy on Telos. The newest and containing invaluable information "borrowed" by Atris from Dantooine. Probably the safest, after Atris is taken care of. Population: Atris (the Handmaidens die or disappear no matter what).

1. The Enclave on Dantooine. Mysteriously rebuilt in a very short timespan. Most Jedi relics were destroyed or excavated. Population: None.

2. The Temple on Coruscant. Population: None.

 

So how exactly do you think the Jedi Order is restored? For clarity, one can assume LSM Revan and LS Exile, although solutions for alternate endings are certainly welcome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

(All projections are based on LSF ending)

1. Atris would remain on the council

2. Bastila? I'm not 100% sure, but I don't see it happening

3. Would have vanished with the other handmaidens

4. Off to head off to the Unknown Regions

5. Kreia already admitted to his sitting on the council, so he would be on the council

6. No, since he's off in the Unknown Regions

7.

Atton - Probably not

Mira - No, doing acts of charity

Visas - Doubtful as she revisits her homeworld, and she probably dies there. If not, then yes

Bao-Dur - Doubtful, but he may spend a bit of his time at the Jedi Academy, running routine maintenance on mainframes and infrastructure

 

Other nominees

Juhani - Not sure

Jolee - Also an unknown

[Sikon]

Well, Jolee must be dead, if not killed then of old age. And I think Juhani is dead as well.

2. Bastila? I'm not 100% sure, but I don't see it happening

Don't see happening what?

[Master_Vrook]

Many people assume Jolee is dead because Disciple said the records of his journey were lost. I think he's hiding on Kashyyyk again.

[Jediphile]

Uhm... that was not what I was referring to. Kreia predicted it: "He will sit upon the new Council, reluctantly, as all good men do..."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She also speaks of the companions in general during the LS ending...

 

Kreia: "You travel with them for so long, yet you do not know them still. Feel them through the Force, feel what they feel, hear their thoughts and know them, as I fought to know you.They were the Lost Jedi, you know. The true Jedi, upon which the future will be built. They simply needed a leader, and a teacher."

 

This bit can also be heard in the streamvoice/904/904kreia folder if you choose the 904904KREIA101.wav, 904904KREIA102.wav and 904904KREIA103.wav audio files.

[Sikon]

She doesn't concretize. Are we to assume Mandalore will become a Jedi, too?

[Jediphile]

This thread is intended for speculation about the possible fate of the Jedi Order after KOTOR II.

What we have of the Jedi heritage?

1. Atris, a semi-insane Jedi Master who fell to the dark side and was redeemed by Exile. The only known official Jedi Master. Can possibly be corrupted by the Sith holocrons again or even killed by them. Either way, the holocrons are there for something. Dead in the DS ending.

2. Bastila, a Jedi Padawan who miraculously survived the period between K1 and K2, possibly as fan service. (Who wouldn't be enraged if Obsidian killed her off-screen?) Plays a minor role in K2, but her whereabouts are unknown in the DS ending of K1. Well, it isn't canonical anyway, but something to consider if they decide to implement all 16 endings in K3. The only known official Jedi besides Atris and Revan.

3. Brianna (Handmaiden), who succeeds Atris as a historian in the LSM ending. It is unclear, though, if being a "historian" implies being a Jedi.

4. Exile. Not officially a Jedi, since his/her punishment was not lifted by the last known Council on Dantooine. Unlikely to participate in the restoration process due to being in the Unknown Regions (LS) or on Malachor V (DS).

5. Mical (Disciple). Becomes a Jedi Council member in the LSF ending. Probably doesn't discover his Force-sensitivity at all in the LSM ending. Nevertheless, being a historian, can be valuable for the Jedi.

6. Revan. I dare not speculateth about Him, ye prophets of Revan the Almighty.

7. Atton, Bao-Dur, Mira and Visas. Force-sensitive, received some basic training from Exile, but not confirmed to become Jedi. In possible DS endings, Mira and/or Visas are dead. I'd say Visas is the one most likely to join the Jedi Order.

 

Structures:

1. The Academy on Telos. The newest and containing invaluable information "borrowed" by Atris from Dantooine. Probably the safest, after Atris is taken care of. Population: Atris (the Handmaidens die or disappear no matter what).

1. The Enclave on Dantooine. Mysteriously rebuilt in a very short timespan. Most Jedi relics were destroyed or excavated. Population: None.

2. The Temple on Coruscant. Population: None.

 

So how exactly do you think the Jedi Order is restored? For clarity, one can assume LSM Revan and LS Exile, although solutions for alternate endings are certainly welcome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. You can kill Atris even if you're LS (though it does count as a evil act), and I don't think we'll see her again for that reason. Besides, if you choose to spare her, the conclusion is that she must abandon the force, since her association with it is what led her astray in the first place, so she seems to be out the picture either way.

 

2. Bastila will definitely still be around, though she still has some way to go before becoming a master. No doubt she will return. And I don't think she "miraculously" survived - she is just the only jedi still around that we hear about (if LS). I dare say there are probably more in hiding out there. I'm fairly certain Nomi Sunrider is one of them. Her daughter is probably another, though we likely won't see them in the KotOR games.

 

3. I think the implication in the LS ending is that the companions will make up the majority of the new jedi council, since Kreia does say that, "They were the Lost Jedi, you know. The true Jedi, upon which the future will be built." Then again, that presumes the LS ending of KotOR2.

 

4. I think the Exile still has a shadow of himself/herself to overcome before being redeemed. But I do think he/she will be among the new jedi after that.

 

5. Mical is definitely a future jedi, especially if you already trained him as one. In fact, I think he'll be a jedi even if he didn't join the male Exile.

 

6. Revan's future is still uncertain, and more so than the Exile's, I think. I doubt they can do KotOR3 without resolving Revan's fate. What will become of Revan after that is a pretty good question...

 

7. Kreia does suggest in the LS ending that they will become jedi in what I quote above for Brianna. So if the LS ending is "official" that does tell us something about the other companions. Except perhaps Bao-Dur, since she doesn't mention him, and I'm still uncertain about whether he died at the end of KotOR2 (when the Ebon Hawk crashed on Malachor).

 

The academy on Telos is just a building and little else. Apart from the holocrons, there is little to tie it to the jedi, and those were Sith holocrons anyway. Besides, Atris never even got around to training even a single jedi there, and I'm not actually sure that she planned to...

 

The enclave on Dantooine has not been a place of fortune for the jedi, so I'm content to let it remain a ruin for now. Besides, how many jedi treasures can be left after the place has been looted over and over for years? It's a graveyard and should remain so.

 

Coruscant is where the jedi should gather and focus on rebuilding their failing order. The reference to the place being empty is probably mostly to the jedi being in hiding after Nihilus tried to hunt them down. Besides, the jedi probably wouldn't be so welcome on the central world of the Old Republic after what happened when they gathered on Katarr... Then again, the reference to Coruscant being abandoned comes from Kreia, and if she says that water is wet, I would check to see if she's right...

[Sikon]

You can kill Atris even if you're LS (though it does count as a evil act)

The LS ending implies "the lightest solution possible". This is why Bastila is still around, anthough Revan could have killed her in the LS ending.

I think the Exile still has a shadow of himself/herself to overcome before being redeemed.

Didn't he redeem himself after blowing up Malachor?

I'm fairly certain Nomi Sunrider is one of them. Her daughter is probably another, though we likely won't see them in the KotOR games.

Nomi Sunrider is, as I understand, about the same age as Jolee, maybe even older. I doubt she will still be around. For Vima, it's possible, but I doubt it, as she has never been mentioned in KOTORs so far.

Except perhaps Bao-Dur, since she doesn't mention him, and I'm still uncertain about whether he died at the end of KotOR2 (when the Ebon Hawk crashed on Malachor).

Improbable. It isn't their way to just kill a party character off-screen. Besides, if Bao-Dur was dead, why would Kreia say his future is uncertain?

Apart from the holocrons, there is little to tie it to the jedi, and those were Sith holocrons anyway.

There were Jedi holocrons too. Atris brought them from Dantooine. Edited November 25, 2005 by Sikon

[Ekkest]

Sorry in advance for the long post.

At the beginning of KOTOR2, there are still quite a few Jedi/Sith around:

 

The Exile

Revan

Bastila

Vrook

Atris

Zez-kai-El

Kavar

Vash

Sion

Kriea

Nihilus

Visas

Several Hundred Dark Jedi

Chodo Habat (somewhat)

True Sith dudes

 

These guys can pretty much be put into four different categories: Former Jedi Order Members, Nihilus's Sith, Sion's Sith and Grey Jedi that don't have an allegiance any more. Former Jedi Order members like Bastila or Vrook or Atris are in hiding, slowly building up networks of allies (for example, Kavar and the Onderonians, or Bastila and the TSF).

Nihilus's Sith include Nihilus aswell as his Dark Jedi minons and his zombie dudes, plus corrupted leaders like Tobin and the remnants of Revan's Sith (what you see on Dxun). Sion also has some of Revan's old forces under his control, as well as the Sith Assasins. Then, of course, there's Jedi just wandering around like the Exile or Kriea. By the end of the game, Nihilus's Sith are gone, Sion's sith are gone, all of the former Jedi Order members except for Bastila and Revan are gone (except for Atris, but she has almost no power any more and is pretty much exiled), but an unknown number of Grey/Dark Jedi in hiding still probably exist (after all, where did all the Dark Jedi on board the Ravager come from?)

 

This narrows the list of Jedi in KOTOR3 by a lot. Now that the only remaining Jedi are with the Republic (at least for the lightside ending), this means that other than the occaisional Dark Jedi, all of the Jedi are now on two sides, Either with the Republic or with the True Sith. Working with the lightside ending, that means that the new Jedi Order now only has a minimum of seven Jedi:

 

Revan

Bastila

Exile

Brianna/Mical

Atton

Mira

Bao-Dur (but he could be dead)

Visas

 

Possible:

Jolee

Juhani

Yuthura

Mekel?

 

I seriously doubt that the Jedi Order has much more than that, since though the Exile trained Atton (or someone else) in a few hours or something, he/she is the only one who can train people tht fast. For normal Jedi (like, say, Zhar) it takes years to train a Jedi. Therefore I doubt any new Jedi have been trained by, say, two years after KOTOR2. The Reformed Jedi Order has allies in the Republic forces and the Mandalorians too. We still know squat about the True Sith, but in order to be a threat they probably must at leats have enough Sith and normal troops/ships to be a threat to the Republic. I'd say that to bring the Jedi Order back up to pre-Mandalorian War levels would take several decades, if not more, and so I doubt we'll see a completely reformed Jedi Order in KOTOR3

[Krookie]

I think Revan went to Katarr and rescued all the Jedi that were there. Zhar, Dorak, and Vandar will be your party members in KotOR III.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Prove it.

How about, you prove they are alive? It's you, after all, who argues with what's said everywhere in the game, particulatly by Visas and Master Vrook.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahem:

 

Notice the part where it says "I think." You lose.

[Sikon]

Possible:

Jolee

Juhani

Yuthura

Mekel?

Kel Algwinn, for that reason. Although he and Yuthura were probably killed in the bombardment.

[jwhitt]

For storyline purposes, I would bring back Vandar. Yoda survived Order 66, and I'm sure Vandar is just as resilient as our little green friend from the movies (and probably hides just as well).

 

We need a true master to lead this ragtag group. Revan is still a Knight, as is the Exile. Bastila is technically still a Padawan (though she would probably gain Knight status after KOTOR1, that is if she wasn't looked down upon for falling to the dark side), and then you have a bunch of people running around with a copy of the Idiots Guide to Being a Jedi in their back pocket.

 

So come up with Vandar going into exile on some swamp planet somewhere in the galaxy.

Edited November 25, 2005 by jwhitt

[Sikon]

Vandar is confirmed by Vrook to have died on Katarr. He could return as a Force ghost, though, but this would only prove that they have run out of ideas.

Exile is technically a Padawan. Considering Bastila, it was theorized that she was promoted to Knight after K1, or maybe even during it - after all, she tells Revan that she presumed her quest for the Star Forge to be an opportunity for her to reach the rank of Master. Someone even suggested that Revan was her Padawan. Wild speculation, I know.

Besides, we still have one Master to lead this "ragtag group", although she will probably refuse to have any deals with the new Jedi. And actually, having a Master isn't even necessary, having a Knight is enough, as most Knights gain Masterhood after training their first Padawan into Knight status.

[Brdavs]

I don't care how much it cheapens KOTOR II but they need to write in a way to restore the Jedi Masters. Killing them off cheapened the storyline alot,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly... the "last of the jedi" bit felt reeealy un-original (hmm ik think i saw a couple of simmilar movies " )... I was a bit dissaopintet, because one of the bigest bonuses of KOTOR was that it was set into a time period when both sith jedi were abound as this was a setting for truley epic confrontation... and in K2 they go and pritty much copy the trilogy....

 

As of the rebuilding the order i realy dont see a problem here.... If they could introduce Zez-kai-El, Kavar and company in K2 i certenly see no problem introducing other Jedi Masters that used the same "hide and lure em out" tactics in K3... I would in fact be a bit dissapointed if atton proved to be the first in the long line of masters that gave us Obi1 and Yoda... continuity is the way to go! At the LS end yodas granddad(sry dunno the name ) talks about another story being weeved into the history of the eternal Order, defenders of the Republic etc. etc.... and I felt all fuzzy inside to be part of that, but in K2 you get bumped back to the "all alone against really many bad-guys, but ill beat them all and and ride into the sunset leaving only ruins behind me" type of storyline... I mean I know SW is a clishe but this is to much

 

I think K3 should be set a fair bit in the future with the order esomewhat rebuilt and reorganised(?) in the fashion that its consistant with the old order in the 2nd trilogy(temple on C., only 1(yes one, ein, uno) padawan and perhaps only padawan/knight/master classes with the ability to specialize inside them (like padawan(conular) upgrades to j.knight(consular) etc...)....

As for the storyline you train a bit as a padawan a could than be accompanied with your master on a mission and stumblle across a clue to "lost fate of Revan and Exile" at wich point your master gets killed... after returning to the council they make you a knight and give you a mandate to invastigete their fate and the threath they were talking about.... and the rest, as they say, is history

Edited November 25, 2005 by Brdavs

[Bulgarian Jedi]

I K2 there almost no Jedi or Sith.

 

In the end of the game the patry members of the Exile can be close to being Jedi or Sith, depending on the Exile's alignment, and several other people we know or don't know about. There might be other jedi in hiding, that did not even contact with the mansters in order their presense and identity to remain secret.

 

Maybe in K3, no matter when it is set, both Jedi and Sith will start misteriously to appear throughout the galaxy, and one the main quests could be to find out why is it happening. I am just speculating.

[Brdavs]

I K2 there almost no Jedi or Sith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No known jedi heh

 

I just think the easiest and most probable way is that they will use the other masters in hiding... I think some if not all 3 masters you encountered said something about them hiding even from eachother...

 

Think of it like this: K2 spoiled LS victory and your role as saviour of the republic in K1 by all but whiping out the jedi no matter what.... K3 will simmilary diminish K2 ending and the "last of the jedi" trumpcard by bringing in a bunch of masters that were in hiding...

[Bulgarian Jedi]

Think of it like this: K2 spoiled LS victory and your role as saviour of the republic in K1 by all but whiping out the jedi no matter what.... K3 will simmilary diminish K2 ending and the "last of the jedi" trumpcard by bringing in a bunch of masters that were in hiding... 

 

 

In K2 you obviously were not the last of the jedi, since there were the jedi Masters Vrook, Kavar, Zez-Kei-Ell, Vash,and Atris.

[Sikon]

Storyline-wise, it was K1 that was closer to the films. The first part of the game (up to Dantooine) pretty much follows Anakin's story in TPM (with some ANH elements), while the ending (after arrival on Rakata Prime) is almost a copy of ROTJ. The K2 story felt more unique, at least, even if we consider the "last of the Jedi" factor that doesn't quite suit the KOTOR era.

[Musopticon?]

That just tells that K1 borrows a lot from the same thematic source as the original trilogy. I can't place the exact source right not, but I remember that it was the basis for "great journey"-hero myths pretty much everywhere.