T'hen Malosk Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Yeah, but EU states that ancient Jedi were supposed to be smarter than prequel idiots. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know...I got the impression Atris wasn't the brightest bulb in the bunch..... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w666tvr Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 There is actually a cutscene that plays between Atris and the Handmaidens whereby one of the Handmaidens mentions that you left with your four companions and Atris is non-plussed. They have to explain to her that with Atton, Bao-Dur and T3 there was an old woman. Atris' line is something along the lines of "sometimes I feel it is all falling apart.." I'm not sure if you need the TSL/RP's Telos Fuel Quest fix to get this scene, as it seems to play when you return to Telos after resolving it. "We were hoping we could bring the Xbox platform into December but didn't want to make the formal announcement until we knew an earlier ship date would not compromise the quality of The Sith Lords," says Producer Mike Gallo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 It makes sense that if Darth Sidious couldn't be detected by the jedi council in episode 1-3, then Atris wouldn't notice a similar sith lord such as Kreia <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It makes sense that Atris couldn't sense Kreia, but the fact that Vroom or Kaviar can't even see her doesn't. It's stupid, bad, and more stupid. And bad. ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kavar Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 It makes sense that if Darth Sidious couldn't be detected by the jedi council in episode 1-3, then Atris wouldn't notice a similar sith lord such as Kreia <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It makes sense that Atris couldn't sense Kreia, but the fact that Vroom or Kaviar can't even see her doesn't. It's stupid, bad, and more stupid. And bad. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. That's controversial. Atris' holocrons frying your ass after you kill her - now THAT'S stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Controversial as in stupid. ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Master Dakari Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) Yeah, but EU states that ancient Jedi were supposed to be smarter than prequel idiots.I don't know...I got the impression Atris wasn't the brightest bulb in the bunch..... " Atris was a fart in the wind compared to Yoda. Then again, that is only opinion. It makes sense that Atris couldn't sense Kreia, but the fact that Vroom or Kaviar can't even see her doesn't. It is my belief that they could see her and knew she was there. However, I think she was able to use the Force to cloud their memories and judgment to the point that they did not know who she was, and also could not sense that she could use the Force(as indicated above). In their clouded opinion, she was just some weazy old woman running around behind you...until, at last, she allowed their minds to remember, and... **BOOM** "Is this your master now, Exile!?" Edited October 10, 2005 by Jedi Master Dakari "Learn to harness your anger and control your fear. Dominate your emotions! But do not let them overcome you; for they can surely cause you to fall to the dark side. If you expect to win against a Sith then you need to fight like a Sith! If you do not, you will always be met with defeat." -- Jedi Master Seraphis Dakari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 There's no stopping you from bringing Kreia to the kinrath cave where Vrook is held prisoner either, yet he is very baffled to see her in the enclave later on. To me this is just another silly oversight on behalf of the development team, even though you could explain it with some farfetched Force bollocks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh yes, far fetched in deed like casting lightning from one's hands or choking someone from across the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Those things you mention are established actions within the boundaries of what the Force is reckoned to be. And, most importantly, Dark Jedi can't just go up and Force Lightning or choke a Jedi Master anyway. Kreia can go invisible and kill them with a wave of her hand. How people can defend that as good, sensible writing is beyond me and only comes across as desperate fanboism. I'll never join you! ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 You could go to far lengths to explain why Kreia couldn't be seen, searching for some hidden, Star Warsy explanation. Or, you could just go ahead and say what it most likely is - a fallacy in the writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) Or it could be a form of telepathy, in controlling one's thoughts and how he or she percieves the world as it is shown in the movie The Shadow. For godsakes man, its the Force. The Force is magic in Star Wars and magic can do anything you goddamn want it to do if you have enough power behind it. Edited October 10, 2005 by Hades_One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) Yeah, or it could just be bad writing. Remember, this is a game, people! The devs no doubt wanted to have Kreia's revelation a secret until the end, but didn't bother to write around to explain how Kreia couldn't be seen when she was standing right in front of them. It's no different from Bastila being able to walk around Taris without being seen by the Sith. Or would you say she was making herself invisible, too? Edited October 10, 2005 by Mothman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 THEY DID EXPLAIN IT! It was quite obvious or are you so blind in your own point of view that you cannot see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Whether they explained it or not is beside the point, goddammit! So, again: How people can defend [Kreia's invisibility] as good, sensible writing is beyond me and only comes across as desperate fanboism. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I am not saying it was good or not, just that is it perfectly possible in using the force the way she did. Magic can do that. Even DnD has the Invisible Spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 So the Force is now Magic? According to Obsidian it's ****ing obvious that you can do that using the Force. According to most people who play the game looking for a story within the boundaries of plausible expectation, it is unfortunate that Obsidian felt this way. Am I clear? ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The Force has always been magic. Its what makes Star Wars a fantasy setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) THEY DID EXPLAIN IT! It was quite obvious or are you so blind in your own point of view that you cannot see it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They explained it with a half-ass, mediocre explanation, that's how. The SW setting has shown that the force can mask someone's presence to avoid detection, but not make them outright invisible. Obsidian made it up, in other words. Edited October 10, 2005 by Mothman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) The Force has always been magic. Its what makes Star Wars a fantasy setting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This time I'll just settle with disagreeing... <_< Edited October 10, 2005 by Darth_Schmarth ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) " The SW setting has shown that the force can mask someone's presence to avoid detection, but not make them outright invisible." While I'm no expert on your precious SW setting, I do believe that it hasn't made statements against or for the latter. "Obsidian made it up, in other words." Captain Obvious to the rescue! Oh em gee, I just realized: BioWare MADE UP Starforge! Rakatans! OH NOES, MY MIND IS OVERFLOODINAAAAARGHHH! Since when has making things up been a bad thing? Edited October 10, 2005 by Sarjahurmaaja. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) So we can put a Super Plasma Death Robot in a Fantasy setting and say "Hey, it works 'cause it's all made up anyway"? Edited October 10, 2005 by Darth_Schmarth ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 "So we can put a Super Plasma Death Robot in a Fantasy setting and say 'Hey, it works 'cause it's all made up anyway'?" Aren't there like tons of those in Star Wars? So, yeah, I guess you can. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I meant Fantasy as in sort of Fantasy. If that wasn't totally obvious I apologise and go stand in a corner drooping my ears. ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) " The SW setting has shown that the force can mask someone's presence to avoid detection, but not make them outright invisible." While I'm no expert on your precious SW setting, I do believe that it hasn't made statements against or for the latter. "Obsidian made it up, in other words." Captain Obvious to the rescue! Oh em gee, I just realized: BioWare MADE UP Starforge! Rakatans! OH NOES, MY MIND IS OVERFLOODINAAAAARGHHH! Since when has making things up been a bad thing? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Listen smartass, the reason I mentioned Kreia and not the Star Forge is becuase what Kreia did contradicts the rest of the game. She could somehow avoid being detected by the Jedi Masters, but nowhere else. It was just a cover up by Obsidian to explain a fallacy in their writing. It's okay to make stuff up, but not when it creates holes in the storyline. Edited October 10, 2005 by Mothman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) "She could somehow avoid being detected by the Jedi Masters, but nowhere else." In what situations you think Kreia should've avoided detection if she could've? Combat notwithstanding, I can't think of even one. And, hey, Kreia even had a feat (I think) that allowed her to go to Stealth mode even without one of those, uh, stealth thingies. "I meant Fantasy as in sort of Fantasy Edited October 10, 2005 by Sarjahurmaaja. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Schmarth Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 And, hey, Kreia even had a feat (I think) that allowed her to go to Stealth mode even without one of those, uh, stealth thingies. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By that logic you'd have to physically activate that feat for those particular scenes. It is completely beyond me how people can stick to Obsidian so tenaciously on this issue, but I guess some people buy things easier. ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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