Baldurs Gate with Jade Empire-style Graphics

[GhostofAnakin]

After replaying a game of Baldurs Gate it got me thinking about it, and the other IE games and wondered whether they'd lose their appeal if they were made with the current day graphics that games like Vampires or JE have.

 

The combat would definitely have to be different as I can't see JE allowing for a 6 person party and full control the same way you had in BG.

 

I think the Infinity Engine's graphics became part of the charm of those games and I'm not sure if they made BG3 with current day graphics if I'd be able to see it as the third in that series, rather than just seeing it as a new game that just happened to have the BG name on it.

[EnderAndrew]

I think the game could retain an overhead view.

 

People forget that games like Bard's Tale or X-Men Legends have an isometric view and are sold today.

 

With strategic combat games becomming popular again, I think a developer could push for turn-based combat again. Japanese and European developers can push for it.

 

Fallout Tactics, imperfect game that it was, featured a decent blend of both turn based and realtime combat. The player got their choice.

[GhostofAnakin]

True. I should have worded it better, but what I was getting at was if Baldurs Gate 3 was made and *DID* have JE or Vampires' style graphics, would it lose some appeal, or feel unfamiliar with the rest of the BG series?

[EnderAndrew]

When Ultima VI had a new engine and looked vastly different to Ultima IV and V, I learned to appreciate it. Then Ultima VII looked completely different.

 

The Ultima games were as highly regarded as Baldur's Gate is today, and people accepted the changes.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Half of BG charm lies in Infinity Engine.

[Gorth]

Not sure how JE looks like or how it plays, but part of the IE games charm was the party based adventuring. And, that you could use terrain in the tactical combat (i.e. move around, use area effect weapons, ranged weapons, melee weapons etc. all at the same time).

 

Something that I found NWN (and Kotor1&2 for that matter) woefully inept at in singleplayer mode...

 

While I still have a game of BG2 going, NWN and the Kotors are gone. They might be technological advances, but they just aren't as fun.

 

Heck, for all it's primitiveness, even Ultima IV is more fun :cool:

[alanschu]

Sort of like Ender said, if the game is good, you'll get over the interface changes. Ultima VII was a big surprise for its interface, but in the end it became easily my favourite Ultima game (only rivalled by Serpent Isle, the quasi-sequel), and one of my favourite games of all time.

 

Good games are good games. People will soon forget, especially if the interface is actually more intuitive.

 

Unless your names is Hades.

 

 

 

EDIT: As for Gorth's statements, I wouldn't disagree. But those are more design decisions, rather than "nice graphics" and whatnot. I'd happily play a fully 3D, Source/Unreal/Oblivion Engine game of Baldur's Gate, if it still had its mechanics like full party control and whatnot.

[EnderAndrew]

Imagine using tactics of your environment with Source's physics to boot.

 

I still have never played BG2. I am seriously thinking of reinstalling BG1, and then buying BG2.

[alanschu]

It is a long game, and while I haven't played it recently, I still have great memories from it.

 

Full physics and Source effects would be sweet. With lip-synching and full voice overs to boot!!

[Yst]

Does not compute.

 

Does not compute.

 

Yeah, seriously, I just can't imagine Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale as a Source Engine sort of game.

 

What would Baldur's Gate be like as a Source game? All the energy of the creative enterprise undertaken in Infinity Engine development seemed oriented towards the utmost exploitation of the IE style of design and gameplay. To ask me what an Infinity Engine game would be like with JE style graphics and perspective is to ask what a game which crafts a gameworld from masterfully portrayed 2D sprites, beautifully drawn backgrounds and text-focused storytelling would be like if none of those things were present within it. It's madness. It's like asking what Shakespeare would be like if Hamlet didn't have any words in it.

[mkreku]

Of course it would be possible to make a Baldur's Gate with Jade Empire's engine (ugh) or (much better) the Source engine. A good game is a good game, no matter the engine (unless the engine manages to suck the fun out of a game, like the Infinity Engine did). I can only imagine the game being better and more immersive within a fully rendered 3D world. Havok physics added to the equation doesn't exactly make things worse either. Technology has moved forward a lot, now all we need is for one of these top developers to take advantage of it all and create a similarly lovingly crafted game as Baldur's Gate with the new and improved technology that is still practically unexploited by the RPG developers today (Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines being the exception).

[EnderAndrew]

I never played The Fall, but it was a full 3D game with a party, and I believe you paused and could switch to a first-person view from any of them, or could pull the camera out and have a wide shot of your entire party of the battlefield.

 

I have to admit it sounds quite nice.

[Judge Hades]

Hey, I liked Baldur's Gate and Jade Empire. I think that if they remade Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 using higher end graphics represented in Jade Empire with solid DnD rules set then I think it would indeed rock, but graphics are secondary for me when it comes to CRPGs.

 

In a CRPG story is what matters first and foremost, but if it has kickarse graphics I won't complain... much.

[BicycleOfDeath]

As impressive the IE engine was for 2D of its time, and a huge fan of 2D I am, I'd probably not buy it if it was 2D... IE or not. I'd like to purchase a game that has a very magnetic storyline. Yet, after that, I'd like to log online, download some mods and hit up a persistant world server. Either that, or the 2D engine would need more sprites. I don't want my halfling to be the dwarf and gnome sprite without the beard, multiple animations for everything. It may take a lot of time, but your level one party will actually look like they're progressing as they roll low on the first group of rats or goblins.

[Judge Hades]

Not that such conjecture isn't completely worthless, but I think that CRPGs nowadays focus more on fluff and candy than actual substance of what makes a CRPG a CRPG. NWN, Morrowind, Fable, Jade Empire, KotORs, and the such have weaker overall stories compared to the IE games, even IWD 2. Sad, but true.

 

Its just to bad.

[Ellester]

The combat would definitely have to be different as I can't see JE allowing for a 6 person party and full control the same way you had in BG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the combat is different then you lose the game, imo. The BG games and the ie were fun because of the strong stories and the tactical combat. The combat was an important part of the game, imo. I think a 3D engine would have to reproduce that tactical style of combat for the BG games to feel like a BG game. Although I think it could be done with the source engine.

[Nur Ab Sal]

It's sad but KOTOR is dull and naive when compared to Baldur's Gate Saga

[Llyranor]

Hmm, what would people feel about a game with current graphics (like, say....... NWN2) that would feature text-heavy narrative/storytelling (a la PST), and yet using the more modern engine to reinforce storytelling even more, via more fleshed-out cutscenes, all *without* compromising the textual part of it. Just for the sake of the argument, let's say the game didn't have voice-acting, relying on text to describe the nuances of dialogue.

 

For example:

 

1) IE engine:

The guard looks at you grimly. "What do you think you're doing here? Get lost!" he utters sharply before prodding you in the gut with the pointy end of his spear.

- "I think that's the point," you interject. "I *am* lost. Hahahahahaha, I guess I better get going." [Run away.]

- "I was hoping you'd restore my faith in humanity. I guess I was wrong," you mutter dryly as you walk away.

- "No offense, but you're a freaking moron," you state nonchalantly.

- [Lit him on fire.] "Oops."

 

2) JE:

"What do you think you're doing here? Get lost!"

- "I think that's the point. "I *am* lost. Hahahahahaha, I guess I better get going."

- "I was hoping you'd restore my faith in humanity. I guess I was wrong."

- "No offense, but you're a freaking moron."

- [Lit him on fire.] "Oops."

This is all you'd get. The difference is that you'd VISUALLY see the body language, actions, animations, etc. As well as voice-acting.

 

3) 1+2:

You get all the narrative from 1), AND you get all the visual crap from 2). Only, instead of having voice-acting, you'd have the narrative from 1) to replace it.

 

So, instead of having current graphics SUBSTITUTING old-school narrative, how about making them reinforce each other? I think that'd work. I'm not convinced that current engines would TAKE AWAY from oldschool RPGs intrinsically, it really depends on the FOCUS of today's RPGs. The engine is not to blame.

[Judge Hades]

The engine is not to blame indeed, but the reliance on total voice over is. I prefer a balance between option one and two. I don't need nor want total voice over. Voice overs should only be used in important scenes, not every single scene with every single character.

[Llyranor]

In a sense, you may be right. I'd rather have good narrative than full voice-acting.

[Volourn]

JE had better role-playing than BG series. While I liked BG's graphics; it's not even in the same league as JE's. I personally preferred Bg's combat system because, well, I'm bias towards D&D and tunr or semi turn base style (evn though I did enjoy JE's RT combat).

 

Game over.

[Judge Hades]

Better role playing? I have to disagree. Just because a game has "conversation skills" does not make it have better role playing.

[Volourn]

Yeah; but the fact that 99% of JE's quests have multiple ways to complete them does...

[Judge Hades]

One good way and one evil way isn't all that great or that far greater than BG. With the amount of time between BG and JE advances in story telling in a Bioware CRPG has been downright stagnant.

[mkreku]

Hades, Hades.. You're forgetting that Jade Empire had shoot'em up sequences!

 

Shoot'em up sequences = TEH UBEREST R0LEPLAYING EVAH!!11