KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[DeathScepter]

if Written well and having his ass kick severly, would you have Revan back??

 

 

I do want to see GOTO return yet die brutally.

 

 

Well it is no fun having HK 47 and T3-M4 without Revan. That is just me.

[Dark Moth]

Except the references to Revan in K2 weren't that brief.  To me, it felt like he was brought up way too often in the game.  Practically everywhere I went, I heard about Revan.  RevanRevanRevanRevan...  It felt like the game was more about Revan than you.  Suddenly, I was as much preoccupied with Revan as I was my own PC.  My only problem is that they mentioned him too dang much. 

 

In K3, I'm hoping the exile and Revan are only mentioned periodically, preferrably being some military leader in the fight against the True Sith that is brought up only in certain points.  And of course, the game should provide closure on both of them.  (At least Revan.  The exile didn't appeal to me all that much, though I'm sure many fans liked him/her more.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So isn't killing Revan closed enough for you? Death = closure.

 

 

 

Boy, one minute you're a Revan fanboy, next you want no mention of the character! Make up your mind ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okay, let me make myself clear. I did like Revan's character a lot, and I don't want to see him killed. My problem in K2 was that it was supposed to be about the exile, not Revan. Revan had his shot in K1, and he did great in that. In K2, they kept on mentioning Revan over and over and over like he was some sort of god. Just because I liked my PC in K1 doesn't mean I want to constantly hear about him/her in the sequal. I mean, it got down to the point where they mentioned Revan 'studying' force bonds whenever you talked about your bond with Kreia.

 

And one thing I think had to do with this was they tried to explain Revan's past and tie all these strategic, hidden motivations behind all his actions in K1. Which is okay, but I don't think it worked out really well. The game seemed to focus too much on Revan. That's where I think they went wrong, and that's where Revan felt less like my character.

 

But no killing Revan. Killing Revan = bad. I'll be a very sad mutant if they do. :'(

[metadigital]

Right, so K2 had too much Revan, so K3 = kill Revan.

 

Got it.

[RaptoR-SH]

i liked kriea's idea tbh.

 

she wanted to get rid of the force.

there is quite alot of logic in that as the force has been the result of millions upon millions of innocents dying, the once friendly jedi gain too much power and become sith, hunting for more and more.

 

without the force all you got is the mandalorians and every one loves the mandalorians

[metadigital]

Halleluja!

 

Amen.

 

Kreia is the One True Prophet! The Anti-Force Force will defeat the tyrrany of the Force by destroying it (as the Force has foreseen and wills) and consequently restoring free will to the galaxy ...

[Jedi Master Dakari]

Forget force-lightning, Kreia's main power seemed to be force-b1tch. whistling.gif

 

I hope they DON'T include a character like Kreia in the next game. I could go for some mentor in the game that "guides" your character, maybe even a neutral one that helps train you, but not someone that stabs you in the back, constantly nags you, or has some crazy wacky motivation for training you (revenge or 'killing' the force).

 

All the more reason for the PC to start as a Padawan being trained by a Knight; preferably Mical (Disciple).

[Jedi Master Dakari]

Another thing that people seem to be forgetting is lip-syncing. If it is possible to do use motion capture technolgy for digital characters in movies, would it be too far of a stretch to ask that it be attempted for K3?

 

No...no...just hear me out...

 

I's not that bad of an idea considering that other games have already used it. All they would have to do is capture the voice actor's mouth movements and expressions as they read the dialogue and use that to build upon the game's digital characters. Not to mention that they will be using a far better gaming engine.

 

I sincerely hope - and believe - that they will be using a better and more fluid gaming engine. I only ask that the over all game-play reamin the same. I have grown comfortable with what is in use, and I feel that it gives the KotOR series it's own personal feel. I would not mind having a "free-for-all" battle system, though I don't have that much of a problem with turn-based system we have.

 

PS:

Obsidian, Maya 7 is the way to go.

 

Considering it is what was used for SW pre-viz and LotR digital animation...

[Laozi]

I sincerely hope - and believe - that they will be using a better and more fluid gaming engine. I only ask that the over all game-play reamin the same. I have grown comfortable with what is in use, and I feel that it gives the KotOR series it's own personal feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

If they use a new engine, might as well design a better game altogether. I'd like to see the end of the d20, but I'm sure it won't happen

[GhostofAnakin]

I'd like to see the end of the d20, but I'm sure it won't happen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is there a better system out there? Or should they create a new one specifically for the game?

[Laozi]

Well it really depends on who makes the game. I'd trust someone like Obsidian, people who obviously play pnp to make a new system.

 

But if it was "inhouse" then it would probaly be best to stick with the d20. You never know, someone at Lucasarts might know what they are doing, but it would be a pretty big gamble

[GhostofAnakin]

You never know, someone at Lucasarts might know what they are doing, but it would be a pretty big gamble

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If there is, then that person certainly doesn't seem to be in a position of influence. "

[Dark Moth]

All the more reason for the PC to start as a Padawan being trained by a Knight; preferably Mical (Disciple).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have to disagree. Disciple only becomes a Jedi for female exile, and not to mention he's disliked by the masses. He also hardly seems like one who'd be great for teaching the force. And I don't think it'd be a good idea for them to have your party members-turned-Jedi be the ones to rebuild the order. They hardly seem to be the types, esp considering they're noobs to the force.

 

That's why I think Revan, the exile, and Bastila should be the ones to rebuild. Seems proper to me.

[Laozi]

That's why I think Revan, the exile, and Bastila should be the ones to rebuild.    Seems proper to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Revan can't rebuild the order, he's off giving handjobs for memory transplants

 

 

Now the Handmaiden, she could rebuild the order

[Kor Qel Droma]

[ Revan can't rebuild the order, he's off giving handjobs for memory transplants

 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL

[Jedi Master Dakari]

And I don't think it'd be a good idea for them to have your party members-turned-Jedi be the ones to rebuild the order. They hardly seem to be the types, esp considering they're noobs to the force.

 

Those are the exact reasons why they are the perfect ones to rebuild the Jedi Order.

 

Try and remember everything Kreia ever said about even common people being more capable than Jedi in some - if not most - aspects. In her words, take the Force away from the most gifted Jedi, give them a lightsaber, and you will see nothing more than a man, a woman, or a child.

 

The Jedi Order had grown too complaicant, arrogant, and hypocritical. Their teachings had also fell below the mark with this...well...laziness, I guess. Two prime examples of these things are Jedi Masters Atris and Lamar. Both arrogant, hypocritical, and acknowledged no self-fault. This was not only on them, but was being felt as a strain in all of the Order.

 

As much as I hate to say it, Kreia knew this. The two main reasons that she used the exile to exact her revenge on the Jedi Council was to do just that - get revenge - and to also prove to them that her teachings were truth, and if one is to truly understand the Force that they would need the contrast (light and dark). Kreia wanted a Jedi Order that taught discipline and took action...not one that taught complaicancy and took a back-seat view of the galaxy. And what better way to do this than to rebuild it upon the shoulders of those who have lived hard lives in the real galaxy? Upon those who know the struggles of the common people?

 

I also do not think that canon goes perfectly to the game. Who's to say how long it took for TSL game to come to completion? If it were to be placed under a chronological timeframe, it is possible that it could have spread over many months, if not a year. I do not believe that the exile lost all his knowledge of the Force, nor forgot all of his training; he only lost his connection to the Force and grew a little slow (like Obi-Wan in Ep. IV). But with time and practice, everything came back to him with great spead. When this occured, can't it be assumed that - if he was training most of his party members to be Jedi - he would have actually taught them everything he knew?

 

Remember, the exile - because of his special knack with Force Bonds - is a highly skilled and crafted teacher. While he was still even a Padawan at the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine, he was already training and teaching others. He was on parr, if not already passed, many Jedi Knights of his day. Mical was even one of his students during this period. Mical was hoping that after the exile took his trials, he would take him as his Padawan. But the exile followed Master Revan to war, and the rest is history.

 

Why do you not think that Mical is apt to teach others? He is very open-minded, he has had all of the basic training at the Academy before having failed to aquire a Master at the right time, he is a scientist, researcher, and historian for the Republic (with special emphasis on Jedi History), which means he has a wealth of knowledge on the subject, and he was then trained - fully - in the ways of the Force by the exile. How could he possibly not be the least bit qualified to be a trainer of Jedi?

 

I will agree with you on the fact that other Jedi need to be involved. Those being Juhani, Jolee, and Bastila. We only know of Bastila's fate so I am keeping the hopes of others alive until I know any different.

 

Again, thinking beyond the game's limitations (because there are many), I think that the exile probably trained his students thoroughly and well. Then again, that's just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it. Also keep in mind what Darth Traya said...

 

"They were the Lost Jedi, you know? Upon which the future will be built."

-- Darth Traya, TSL

 

And if that doesn't make it any clearer, then I don't know what would.

 

PS: Think of it as a kind of Luke Skywalker situation...

 

PSS: As I have mentioned in many threads, many times before, I would love to see a Rakatan Jedi Master in this game; preferably on the Jedi Council. But hey, if not, just atleast have a Rakatan Jedi.

[Calax]

the Raks (i'm not even going to attempt to spell their name I'm tired) are officially disconnected from the force remember? they don't explain why but they just are. K3 needs to be a Revan Flick with a new engine (HL2 or Doom3's might work). They could try using the old (I mean ancient) battle system from conan. especially when they are going to do somthing along the lines of K2 which is Shoot First Ask Questions Later.

[Plano Skywalker]

Kreia was indeed the best written character of K2. However, she was also a shortcut device to prop up a weak, extremely linear, "filler" story and to avoid the issue (once again) of a proper darkside path.

 

I'm all for 3-dimensional characters but I sure as heck don't want to see a shortcut device like that in future games.

 

The idea of having to fight your former teacher or student is classic Star Wars. However, they really can't do it that way every time in these games.

 

I'd like to see the protagonist in these games become a little more like 007...different ways to accomplish the same objective.

 

 

 

Forget force-lightning, Kreia's main power seemed to be force-b1tch.  " 

 

I hope they DON'T include a character like Kreia in the next game.  I could go for some mentor in the game that "guides" your character, maybe even a neutral one that helps train you, but not someone that stabs you in the back, constantly nags you, or has some crazy wacky motivation for training you (revenge or 'killing' the force).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're not a fan of complex characters are you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[metadigital]

...

That's why I think Revan, the exile, and Bastila should be the ones to rebuild.    Seems proper to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Revan's dead, Zed.

[SamuraiGaijin]

I agree that the party members the Exile turned to Jedi (Mikal, Brianna, Mira, Bao Dur) and Visas should be the ones to help Vandar, Bastila and Juhani rebuild the order. I'd prefer Jolee stay neutral to the order, and be the catlyst for one of the major quests (or the tutor for Grey Jedi).

 

Their roles could be:

- Vandar: Jedi Master - leader of the Jedi Order

- Bastila: Jedi Master - Headmistress of the Jedi Academy

- Juhani: Jedi Master - "trouble shooter" - the one they send to take care of "hostile negotiations"

- Brianna: Jedi Master - Historian

- Visas: Jedi Master - talent scout - the one who searches for prospective Jedi

- Mikal: Jedi Knight - primary force power instructor, and trainer for Consular PC's*

- Bao-Dur: Jedi Knight - primary lightsaber instructor, and trainer for Guardian PC's*

- Mira: Jedi Knight - primary skills / problem solving instructor, and trainer for Sentinel PC's*

 

The PC should start as a young non-Jedi-class PC (Scout, Soldier, Scoundrel, and possibly Tech Specialist) and the general timeline could go like this (I know I'm borrowing ideas from previous posts).

~ Level 1-5: initial quests involve proving yourself to Visas, so that she'll take you to the Jedi Academy, and training quests for Mira, Bao-Dur, and Mikal. (DS path could begin with failing to impress Visas, and being recruited by Yuthura Ban as her disciple, Grey path could be another option, with Jolee taking you under his wing)

~ Level 6: Select a Jedi Class*

~ Level 6-9: Padawan quests - with the appropriate trainer accompanying (or solo quests for Grey/DS Jedi)

~ Level 10: get accepted (or rejected - for another possible DS/Grey branch) as a Jedi Knight and assigned a Padawan (possibly from your party?) (Those that started as Grey/DS could possibly convert one party member as well)

~ Level 10-15: Jedi Knight quests

~ Level 16: based on your performance, and your Padawan's, either get selected to be a Jedi Master (or choose a prestige class*), to remain a Jedi Knight, or (if you really botched things up in the eyes of the council) exiled (for another possible DS/Grey branch).

~ Level 16+: final (Jedi Master level) quests - possibly leading an expedition into the unknown regions to track down clues about Revan and the Exile

 

One of the things that will be a dramatic deviation from the current mechanic is the (mostly) even experience point spread, with party members leveling up to nearly your PC's level upon joining the party. Proper level separation should be maintained between you and your instructor, and you and your padawan. Party members join the party "as is" (but will level up somewhat quicker than the PC at first, since lower levels require less XP).

 

I'm something of a d20 purist, and believe that the 20-level cap is a good thing - if it coutinues to be unlimited (as in K2), then the feat and force power trees need to be deeper (not longer - we don't need more feats or powers - we need more opportunity to focus on the ones we have - and use). The Jedi Weaponmaster/Sith Marauder did this fairly well with Superior LSaber Specialization and Two-Weapon Fighting, but I would liked to have seen Deulist (at a minimum) included on that list. All of the force powers could have five or so tiers (one possible option here is something akin to the metamagic feats in 3e D&D - Empower Spell - increasing potency - i.e. damage done, save difficulty, etc., Extend Spell - increasing duration, and Enlarge Spell - increasing area of affect - could all apply. You should also be able to improve your focus on the Force/LSaber Forms.

 

* - assuming the d20 system, classes, and prestige classes are all retained (and since d20 is the system used for the PnP SW:RPG, it probably will be)

Edited August 20, 2005 by SamuraiGaijin

[metadigital]

...

[1]"They were the Lost Jedi, you know? Upon which the future will be built."

-- Darth Traya, TSL

...

PPS: As I have mentioned in many threads, many times before, I would love to see a [2]Rakatan Jedi Master in this game; preferably on the Jedi Council. But hey, if not, just atleast have a Rakatan Jedi.[/i]

the [3]Raks (i'm not even going to attempt to spell their name I'm tired) are officially disconnected from the force remember? they don't explain why but they just are. K3 needs to be a Revan Flick with a new engine (HL2 or Doom3's might work). They could try using the old (I mean ancient) battle system from conan. especially when they are going to do somthing along the lines of K2 which is Shoot First Ask Questions Later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Controversial, but I have no problem with bringing any of the Grey Jedi back as teachers. If Jolee is still around, he would provide just the antidote to the illness that the Jedi Council seems to be suffering from (or rather, seemed to be suffering from, before they were all killed). Sure, it means that Revan couldn't have killed him on the Star Forge, but that is not a big assumption to make, after all he might never have gone.

 

2. I see no problem with this either, despite Calax's (wrong) assertion that it is impossible. I would like to play every race as a PC (well, except for Jawas and Hutts, but that's personal preference).

 

3. If you remember K1, there were more and more common instances of the Rakatans being Force Sensitive; recall the barbarian leader was FS. And, um, you could always just copy and paste from the post immediately above, if you had a problem with spelling ... it must have taken longer to type your explanation than to do that.

 

Also, Revan's dead, Zed.

[DAWUSS]

All the more reason for the PC to start as a Padawan being trained by a Knight; preferably Mical (Disciple).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have to disagree. Disciple only becomes a Jedi for female exile, and not to mention he's disliked by the masses. He also hardly seems like one who'd be great for teaching the force. And I don't think it'd be a good idea for them to have your party members-turned-Jedi be the ones to rebuild the order. They hardly seem to be the types, esp considering they're noobs to the force.

 

That's why I think Revan, the exile, and Bastila should be the ones to rebuild. Seems proper to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think Mical would make a good teacher, and I think it would be nice to see the LSF Exile be the canon version for II, and Kreia does mention that he sits of the Council. I do think Bastila would be one to join, and maybe Atris (assuming she was spared), and I don't know about any of the others... I really can't see the rest of my posse sitting on the Jedi Council (MAYBE Bao-Dur... MAYBE [since Brianna would be ruled out under a female Exile]) Visas would be too busy trying to start the return of the Miraluka, Mira would be too busy roaming the galaxy, and Mandalore isn't even a Force Sensitive (from what we can gather). Atton would be too busy playing pazaak (or being with the Exile, being in love with her), so that rules him out.

 

However, I admit I wouldn't want KOTOR III being a who-dat Padawan taught by the Disciple, since I think KOTOR III should tie up the Exile's unfinished stories, and maybe end up like ROTS (though I don't wanna see her fall to the dark side... NOOOOOO )

[metadigital]

I think a lot of people are in danger of limiting the game unnecessarily; sure Brianna wasn't involved in the game if your Exile was female, for example. This doesn't mean she doesn't exist, for the purposes of future games; she already felt different and was ostracised by her sisters and Atris, so it is not a big jump to her joining a female Exile / Mical / Bastila / Atris / whomever ex post facto. Especially if Atris was spared (all the sisters weren't), then she would look upon Brianna with different eyes ...

[Dark Moth]

Well, I think you'll have a lot of fans who DON'T want to be taught by Disciple. BTW, what does Kreia say about him at the end? What is his supposed future? I've been meaning to ask that for a while.

[DAWUSS]

According to Kreia, Disciple sits on the Jedi Council

[metadigital]

He marries Revan.