Best Games Ever

[SteveThaiBinh]

I wonder if Oblivion is going to have a more robust conversation design in Oblivion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I liked Morrowind a lot (not sure it qualifies for best game ever, though), but the dialogue system was a real weakness, especially on the second play through, when I struggled to remember which words triggered certain important events.

[Guest Fishboot]

Oh! Oh!

 

If you reinstall get all the patches The newest one GREATLY improves the journal

 

Or was that an upgrade from Bloodmoon....

 

I can't remember

 

Something upgraded the journal though, big time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Also find the "Better Bodies" and "Better Heads" mods out from internetland when starting a fresh game of Morrowind. They are a tremendous upgrade in character model and texture quality, and they have both been combed over by the mod community to fit into the game pretty well (unlike the early head replacer mods that made all of the NPCs look like supermodels, even the dusty old crones). There are tons of great mods out in the community - as a minor add-in I suggest Juniper's Twin Lamps mod, which is a seamless add-in mod that creates some atmosphere and interactivity to the politics of slavery in Morrowind - it's pretty close to professional quality. The Morrowind Enhanced combat mods also make Morrowind a satisfying melee action RPG (the original design made player ability more-or-less epiphenomenal) - they're so ingenious that Beth hired the guy.

 

Okay, enough bringing up TES for me.

[Darque]

The only mods I ever used were Rhedd's Heads (nothing short of fantastic) and some... well alot really... of the clothing mods.

[alanschu]

My my...the game really has seemed to have changed.

 

 

I'll see if I can squeeze it in for my 4 o'clock on Sunday :D

[EnderAndrew]

There is also a fan-made dialogue patch that is really good, a weather system and more.

[Darque]

I've been tempted to try the armorer mod.

 

It lets you turn raw materials into armor.

 

I would so love to do that

[alanschu]

I remember carrying around a lot of rocks. They were heavy...had to sacrifice them for my Daikatana

[Darque]

Daikatana > Rocks

 

Of course you could invest in alchemy and make featherweight potions

[alanschu]

Meh, I probably did. Or had another ring that took care of it.

 

 

It was neat a lot of the freedoms you had in that game, and enchanting/modifying stuff WAS fun. It was just sooo powerful

[Darque]

I know It was fantastic

 

 

I had a ring that summoned Daedric armor and weapons when worn

 

That really cut down on my weight

 

I also made a shield that GREATLY increased my carrying capacity.

 

And finally I made something (can't remember the form) that summoned a critter when worn. So I "always" had a pet with me

[alanschu]

Gooo skill-based system

[Darque]

Speaking of skills....

 

I can't increase Restoration in Daggerfall

 

Some sort of bug it seems.

[Guest GroinOfDespair]

I thought Ender said the game didn't have any bugs.

 

And he called me a troll?

[Lord Tingeling]

The magic system in morrowind was the most boring evar.

 

But then again, what's there to except when you have a dozen or so spell effects total?

[EnderAndrew]

You have to be crazy.

 

I did the math and there were thousands and thousands of effects.

 

Morrowind had one of the best magic systems I've seen in a CRPG.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

They have the GotY edition over at blockbusters for

[Musopticon?]

Full game plus both expansions. Highly recommended, being so cheap.

 

 

Edit: Damn you Ender for being so thorough. :">

[EnderAndrew]

The Game of the Year edition includes some fixes, and both expansions. Tribunal actually fills out the main game more, as some of the major plot they wanted to put in the main game got cut, and then later included in that expansion.

 

Tribunal and Bloodmoon each add a whole new continent to the game, with new plots, quests, items, etc. Bloodmoon also adds Werewolves, and the ability to become a werewolf in the game.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Sounds like it's worth

[EnderAndrew]

Mind you, I haven't gotten so far in the game to play the new plot of either expansion.

 

I was just finishing up Balmora and all the quests for all three guilds there when my HDD crashed last time. I was probably easily 25 hours in the game, and yet I was still in the "beginning".

[213374U]

Tribunal and Bloodmoon each add a whole new continent to the game, with new plots, quests, items, etc.  Bloodmoon also adds Werewolves, and the ability to become a werewolf in the game.

No. Tribunal doesn't add a continent. It adds just one city, and one in which "Flying" is misteriously disabled so you can't get past the city walls.

 

And while there are potentially thousands of spells, there is only a handful of possible effects. The power of combinations.

[Lord Tingeling]

You have to be crazy.

 

Do I?

 

You see, I wasn't referring to combinations of effects, I was referring to the effects themselves. Such as levitate, open, lock, etc.

 

While there's admittedly thousands of things I can do with the magic system, the variation is still not present, I'd say. Sure, I can make a spell that silences something for five seconds (using the standard green glob animation), or I can make a frostbolt that deals area damage (using the frost crystal animation).

 

But the fun doesn't stop there! I can, if I were so inclined, make a spell that silences and freezes, using the standard (and only) illusion animation coupled with the standard frost animation! Madness! I can make fireballs, I can make frost balls, I make make fire AND frost balls... but in the end, said spell isn't really another spell. It's just the same spell with marginally different properties.

 

I actually prefer a system with lots of varied and unique spells such as Timestop, entangle to the (unbalanced) crap that is MW's magic system.

[EnderAndrew]

Compare D&D magic.

 

D&D has spells that englarge, levitate, shrink, conjure items, summon creatures, damage, etc.

 

Overall, the Player's Guide probably only has say 40 unique spell effects. Most CRPGs don't really have more than 20.

 

Morrowind had something like 20 truly unique main effects. However you can modify if the spell effects an area, a target, self, etc. You can modify if the spell is instant, duration, etc. You can modify if the spell does static or ranged damage. You can modify elemental attributes. It can drain life, or regen life. Then add the truly unique affects like levitation, summoning, conjuring, enchanting, etc.

 

To say there are only a dozen effects is really a folly.

[213374U]

But it's the truth. Changing the parameters doesn't change the effect.

[Lord Tingeling]

Compare D&D magic.

 

D&D has spells that englarge, levitate, shrink, conjure items, summon creatures, damage, etc.

 

Overall, the Player's Guide probably only has say 40 unique spell effects.  Most CRPGs don't really have more than 20.

 

Unique spell effects, you say? The spells themselves are unique. Sure, there are ones that trap, ones that damage, etc, but I wouldn't put the damagedealing effects in a single category, nor would I do so with web/entangle/hold person, for example.

 

That said, if I were to combine several effects into one effect and name it "damage" and so on, MW's effect selection would be more meager than it already is if it was submitted to the same treatment.

 

Morrowind had something like 20 truly unique main effects.  However you can modify if the spell effects an area, a target, self, etc.  You can modify if the spell is instant, duration, etc.  You can modify if the spell does static or ranged damage.  You can modify elemental attributes.  It can drain life, or regen life.  Then add the truly unique affects like levitation, summoning, conjuring, enchanting, etc.

 

Truly unique? Not the choice of words I'd use. To say that lightning/fire/ice/damage health are unique apart from the sound/animation they produce would really stretch the definition of the word well past what's normal.

 

Yes, you can modify the paramaters of said effects, and you can combine them into one. Now, where is the vast arrays of *unique effects*, then? Changing parameters doesn't really make a compelling argument for the effects themselves being varied. Likewise, I wouldn't say that my fireball is another fireball if I level up and choose spell focus: evocation, even though the added DC and damage dice makes it somewhat different. The parameters have changed, but the spell itself has not.

 

And you know, there are such things as spell triggers and spell sequencers in AD&D. Thus, if I combine timestop and gate, it's not really timestop + gate anymore, it's a whole new spell! Or maybe not.