Main K3 enemy other than Sith?

[EnderAndrew]

Just like there were no Jedi other than Luke Skywalker, and yet the EU has suggested there were tons of other former Jedi elsewhere hiding.

 

Kreia mentions the true Sith. We can consider 3 things.

 

1 - Kreia lies about everything, and she sent Revan on a wild goose chase.

2 - If she is referring to the race of Sith, they are perceived to be extinct (like the Ratakans) but still exist in small numbers.

3 - She is referring to the Sith as we know them, but the bulk of their forces are still in the Unknown Regions with intents also unknown. I think this is the most likely scenario.

 

The Sith weren't extinct, but we assume the followers of Revan and Malak were the entirely of the Sith. I find that hard to believe. Surely the existed Sith leadership before these two came, converted a few Jedi and started up a new Sith fleet.

 

I imagine a true Sith Lord might set up a civil war (just like Palpy did), then step in a defeat one side and claim to be the hero, taking advantage of the weakened Republic and establish a new Empire. They just have to step in out of the shadows now.

 

Given that scenario, it makes the most sense that Revan was that Sith Lord all along. If you buy the LS Revan story, then Revan was only really LS because he lost his memories, or he went to deceive the Jedi Order and pretended to work for them. Either way, Kreia put him back on his correct path and manipulated the Exile to prepare the galaxy for Revan to come back in and take over the place.

[metadigital]

...

If they continue doing trilogies, they need to have the BG ability to export your PC to the next game.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But the characters are too powerful now. What would the Exile, for example, fight in a perported K3? Storm Beasts? Level 30 Stih? Certainly not poor little gizka, even a planet of them wouldn't put up enough of a fight! (Super-Storm-Gizka? ) Maybe fewer, tougher opponents, like True Sith, or clones of Revan ...

 

The devs (for reasons that will probably remain unknown) have painted themselves into a corner.

 

Add to that the fact that there are-- even being generous -- only a maximum of eighteen very similar class permuntations and I start to wonder what the point of retianing the character is -- equipment?

[EnderAndrew]

What do you do in pen-and-paper campaigns when there are really powerful NPCs in a campaign?

 

You find a place for them, and a place for the PC as well.

[Drakron]

Just like there were no Jedi other than Luke Skywalker, and yet the EU has suggested there were tons of other former Jedi elsewhere hiding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cannon, Luke was the last.

 

Continuity there were others, hiding or something (argh, EU horrible plot devices).

 

KotOT games goes against continuity, in the normal way that EU is done KotOR would be Infinities.

[metadigital]

What do you do in pen-and-paper campaigns when there are really powerful NPCs in a campaign?

 

You find a place for them, and a place for the PC as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Normally? Turn them into NPCs for other PCs to interact with ...

[GhostofAnakin]

Given that scenario, it makes the most sense that Revan was that Sith Lord all along.  If you buy the LS Revan story, then Revan was only really LS because he lost his memories, or he went to deceive the Jedi Order and pretended to work for them.  Either way, Kreia put him back on his correct path and manipulated the Exile to prepare the galaxy for Revan to come back in and take over the place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The only thing I see that could go wrong with that scenario (putting aside game balance issues) is people might be upset that their choices for Revan in KOTOR I had no real effect. But I guess that's a risk they take continuing the story with Revan as a focal point of it.

[Plano Skywalker]

But the characters are too powerful now. What would the Exile, for example, fight in a perported K3? Storm Beasts?

<snip>

The devs (for reasons that will probably remain unknown) have painted themselves into a corner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, they definitely will not be able to do it in K3 because K1 and K2 were simply not paced for it.

 

All I am saying is that IF future SW RPGs are trilogy-based (and there is alot to be said for them NOT being trilogies), then they should incorporate games 2 and 3 with the option to import the PC from previous games. And the games would have to be paced for it. For instance, the first game you max out at level 7, the second game you max out at level 14, etc.

 

Of course, the d20 system is really not ideal for higher-level characters. I say scrap the d20 system and come up with a 1,000 pt percentage-based system.

[Plano Skywalker]

Given that scenario, it makes the most sense that Revan was that Sith Lord all along.  If you buy the LS Revan story, then Revan was only really LS because he lost his memories, or he went to deceive the Jedi Order and pretended to work for them.  Either way, Kreia put him back on his correct path and manipulated the Exile to prepare the galaxy for Revan to come back in and take over the place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The only thing I see that could go wrong with that scenario (putting aside game balance issues) is people might be upset that their choices for Revan in KOTOR I had no real effect. But I guess that's a risk they take continuing the story with Revan as a focal point of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that is the thing...Revan really is a problem. Not only can you not show his face, you really cannot even use him as anything other than a mysterious plot device if you don't want to offend anyone.

 

The best way to use Revan (from a storyteller's perspective) is to use him as a major, "hard coded" plot device, such as making him the antagonist (i.e. the True Sith Lord), but then you offend the LS Revan acolytes. If you give him a support role, he is LS, or at best, a pro-Republic anti-hero and having him play second fiddle will not sit too well with the Revan fans.

 

So leave him unresolved? Suspended animation or such crap? Then KOTOR becomes a soap. If they do that, then they almost have to go with a prequel or KOTNR for the 4th game. KOTOR 4 CANNOT BE ABOUT REVAN!!!

[GhostofAnakin]

And that is the thing...Revan really is a problem.  Not only can you not show his face, you really cannot even use him as anything other than a mysterious plot device if you don't want to offend anyone.

 

The best way to use Revan (from a storyteller's perspective) is to use him as a major, "hard coded" plot device, such as making him the antagonist (i.e. the True Sith Lord), but then you offend the LS Revan acolytes.  If you give him a support role, he is LS, or at best, a pro-Republic anti-hero and having him play second fiddle will not sit too well with the Revan fans. 

 

So leave him unresolved?  Suspended animation or such crap?  Then KOTOR becomes a soap.  If they do that, then they almost have to go with a prequel or KOTNR for the 4th game.  KOTOR 4 CANNOT BE ABOUT REVAN!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IF they are going to use Revan, I think the only way they can use Revan without risking stomping on both DS and LS Revan fans is to make that part of the "choice", much like in TSL when you select whether Revan was LS or DS. Then at the end, it plays out two different ways depending on whether you told the game that Revan was LS or DS.

 

If Revan is said to be DS, then perhaps the new PC (you the player) have to confront him as the final endboss. If Revan is said to be LS, then (and he's an interesting twist), REVAN tells you he'll fight the "endboss" while you get away, thus sacrificing himself to allow you to escape the cliche'd exploding planet/base/moon/ship/etc.

[DeathScepter]

A Modifed D20 System that allows for a High Level Character.

 

 

I am thinking 36 point avaible then 10 point base stats at character creation screen.

 

Then a Revan and A Exile character creation screens with the right questions for Each of them for their pasts.

 

 

A De Leveling feature is where if you lose a battle you lose a level. Also that will be tied into the Story with the True Sith.

 

 

I rather be Revan again then potential to play another overpowered Revan's bitch aka Exile.

 

I do think that Exile is very uninspiring character and he is too overpowered in related to the game.

 

Who wants to play as someones bitch? Not me.

 

With Revan, you can use the Jedi Master or the Sith Lord type of Leader within the game.

 

A Powerful Jedi Master Or a Powerful Sith Lord will be cool and Without or With Revan that will be cool

[Calax]

wheee perhaps you could fight malachor five that had taken the spirit of kreia! knowing Lucasarts that might actually happen

[Plano Skywalker]

With Revan, you can use the Jedi Master or the Sith Lord type of Leader within the game.

 

A Powerful Jedi Master Or a Powerful Sith Lord will be cool and Without or With Revan that will be cool

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

***SPOILER ALERT***

 

In KOTOR 2, you HAD to have a mentor named Kreia. It was absolutely forced. That made it easier to write the story. OK, fine, give me one character that I HAVE TO LEARN FROM but let me decide if my teacher is LS or DS.

 

They could do that with Revan....he is your Force teacher but you get to decide early on whether he is LS or DS. This would require them to write 2 dialogue trees for Revan but 2 is easier than 4 or 6, etc.

 

And guys, there are no uber-powerful Grey Jedi Masters....no more shortcuts involving grey jedi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Calax]

well at the very beginning you could have a neutral sort of a jedi starter kit, except it's a person.

[metadigital]

...

Of course, the d20 system is really not ideal for higher-level characters.  I say scrap the d20 system and come up with a 1,000 pt percentage-based system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... a per milli system then. " (Per-millum? )

[Bytor]

I'm tired of putting no good bounty hunters in thier place.

 

You are not going to beat me so back off!

[Calax]

Well i think it was stupid that Exile didn't realize atris was who was passing out pamphlet's saying EXILE IS HERE EXILE IS HERE.

 

Maybe take on the bounty hunters guild or the exchange in the next game

[metadigital]

I'm tired of putting no good bounty hunters in thier place.

 

You are not going to beat me so back off!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you mean you want to put no-good bounty hunters in their place, or you want to put some (as opposed to none) good bounty hunters in their place (wherever that is)?

[DeathScepter]

I was thinking with Revan as PC but as an optionial Teacher.

 

 

 

I do know many of you like some of the Ebon Hawk crew from kotor 2.

 

 

 

I do think that HandMaiden and Revan will have an interesting relationship.

 

There will be an option to complete her training after the Death of the Exile.

 

 

She will be quite nervous around Both Revan and Nihilus as allies.

 

 

Right now I am working on more plausible Kotor 3 with Revan as a Jedi Master/bounty Hunter.

 

SO I am open for any ideas.

 

Nihilus will be more of a Ghost/spectre when he will returns.

[Calax]

handmaiden and Revan?

 

"Hi honey i killed your father."

"hi dearest I hope the exile doesn't mind that i'm double playing him."

"He doesn't"

 

Right Sure.... I think that Handmaiden could come back because if Revan came back maybe he didn't bring Exile with him. and Hanmaiden joins Revan to find exile (dear god i just made a new Mandalore *Whack*) I think that maybe Bao could come back while atton lives in marital bliss with sombody.

[Tel Aviv]

I don't think it's feasible that either the exile or Revan will return in any major capacity. There are too many variables in the mix. Customizable aspects, PC levels and the like... but also the characters themselves, characters we defined through our own choices.

 

The only comfortable approach I can think of is the one TSL took, merely hearing of the characters and their fates, never actually encountering them. Though that may not satisfy some.

 

As much as I love TSL it has buggered a potential sequel. Buggered it like a heron.

[DeathScepter]

Two Character Creation Screens with related question to Revan and Exile.

 

 

 

Screen 1: Revan and his Past

 

 

Screen 2: Exile and his Past

 

 

Open Screen will show you the true extent of True Sith's problem and Their threat to the galaxy in that they captured and tortured Revan brutally.

 

Force Lighting and Variety of punishing Force powers will be used with very sick torture methods.

 

In English, you will say damn alot and get scared.

 

Sever beatings Revan will get.

[Darth Nuke]

Just like there were no Jedi other than Luke Skywalker, and yet the EU has suggested there were tons of other former Jedi elsewhere hiding.

 

Kreia mentions the true Sith.  We can consider 3 things.

 

1 - Kreia lies about everything, and she sent Revan on a wild goose chase.

2 - If she is referring to the race of Sith, they are perceived to be extinct (like the Ratakans) but still exist in small numbers.

3 - She is referring to the Sith as we know them, but the bulk of their forces are still in the Unknown Regions with intents also unknown.  I think this is the most likely scenario.

 

The Sith weren't extinct, but we assume the followers of Revan and Malak were the entirely of the Sith.  I find that hard to believe.  Surely the existed Sith leadership before these two came, converted a few Jedi and started up a new Sith fleet.

 

I imagine a true Sith Lord might set up a civil war (just like Palpy did), then step in a defeat one side and claim to be the hero, taking advantage of the weakened Republic and establish a new Empire.  They just have to step in out of the shadows now.

 

Given that scenario, it makes the most sense that Revan was that Sith Lord all along.  If you buy the LS Revan story, then Revan was only really LS because he lost his memories, or he went to deceive the Jedi Order and pretended to work for them.  Either way, Kreia put him back on his correct path and manipulated the Exile to prepare the galaxy for Revan to come back in and take over the place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The True Sith have been warring with the Republic since the Mandalorian Wars, they just been on the sidelines watching other people fight it.

 

 

there is no reason for Kreia to lie, because lieing about stuff being used as plot devices isn't so in Star Wars. Not unless it's apart of the plot, but clearly the True Sith have been apart of this plot for sometime.

 

Kreia in KOTOR 2 said that the GREAT WAR WAS COMING. A small faction of Sith isn't great, and don't once thing that the Sith are gone. This Sar Wars.

 

Who was behind the Mandalorian Wars? The True Sith. That is the fact, Canderous told us, Revan thought it. Revan thought that something else was behind the war, and he was right. That is why he went to the Dark Side. To conquer and make stronger the galaxy, win or lose.

 

However you must think, the True Sith are probably behind this as well. How does Revan find out about the True Sith but on a ancient Sith planet, thought to have been forgotten. Yeah right. So now you have Revan who is weakening the Republic in order to make it stronger with forces from his Star Forge. Oh, but what happens, Revan's plan goes ill when Bastila captures him and Malak nearly blows him up. He needs a new memory, and thus he is no longer Revan, and he no longer knows the True Sith are coming. And what else does he do? He destroys most of his Sith army and the STar Forge, his weapon. So now the Republic is Weak, and his Sith weak.

 

Starting to see how all this fits together yet?

 

Revan does remember his enemy though and goes to find them, leaving Canderous and Carth to help keep the Republic going. But what happens next, the Exile and Kreia do even more damage. They destroy the Jedi, and the rest of the Revan/Malak Sith.

 

So the TS to do list:

 

Weaken Greatest army in Galaxy(Mando): Check

Weaken Republic: Double Check

Destroy Jedi and other threats: Super Check

Creat problems in Senate: Next

 

So now A hero, a Exile, a small army of Mandalorians, and a small Republic army stand in the way of the greatest Sith threat the Galaxy will face this era. Right now the Republic might as well hang a welcome sign.

 

But hand it to the True Sith for making a great plan, of cours no matter what they will be defeated no matter how KOTOR 3 turns out. But I feel their plan will inspire the great Darth Sidious plan 4000 years later.

[EnderAndrew]

Exactly.

[jaguars4ever]

Incidently, if any of you remember Canderous' "asteroid" story from K1, then you might be aware of the Yuuzhan Vong reference. :ph34r:

[EnderAndrew]

I hate the Vong. I'm fine with references, but I hope they don't appear.