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Small things that KOTOR 2 lacked


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Dont get me wrong, i enjoyed K2 (minus the ending) as much as K1 and found that K2 was a lot darker and deeper BUT small things that made kotor 1 more memorable were not in K2.

Examples:

 

Backround information on your party members.

 

For example in KOTOR one you pretty much found out through conversing with party members where they were born, what kind of life they lived, how they were raised, how they came to be what they were , etc etc. IN KOTOR 1 conversations would appear as you gained experience, so you go the entire story of every character. It makes the whole experience alot better. IN k2 (besides visas coming from katarr and mandalore from ordo) you dont know where any of your party members were born and raised. You dont know what kind of lives they lived, who their heroes were, who their family was. Mira had pathetic lines like "i had a mother once, somewhere" whereas in K1 you had bastila explaining how she and her mother were never on good terms. Kreia also says something about Miras father at the end of the game, but we know nothing about him.

 

Kreia was my all time favorite character in both KOTORs and i sit here wondering what i know about her and i know absolutely nothing about her past. Why was she exiled, where was she born, how did she fall to the dark side, what wars did she fight in, etc etc.

Clear this up for me, maybe i just didnt get enough influence. Where were these chars born?

Mira? Atton? Disciple? Handmaiden? Kreia?

 

 

Party interaction- IN k1 there was a little bit of party interaction for exaple carth and mission fighting about her childish behaviour, canderous provoking bastila, etc. In K2 there was barely any interaction between them ( off of the ebon hawk)between characters. Never once did mira speak to mandalore, meanwhile she used to be a slave to the mandalorians when her world was conquered.

 

 

Planet information- Where is all the lore? You cant ask your party "do you know anything about this world" where as in K1 you could ask pretty much everyone and they all had different info about the world. Dantooine was said to have been bombed and the once lush planet is now in ruins....i didnt know the jedi enclave was the entire planet. The planet wasnt bombed, just that was. After i completed KOTOR 2 i still dont know much about, Onderon, Nar shaadaa, or Malachor 5. Telos and Dxun were well done, but the rest of the planets barely had any info. Hell you couldnt even leave the walls of Iziz to explore onderon.

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I totally agree man. The influence thing in KOTOR II did more harm than good because it is impossible to get the back story on alll the NPC's in a single play because the different characters react to different force alliggnments etc....

 

Overall, you have to blame lucas arts and not obsidian. Obsidian did the best they can but Lucas put an unreasonable deadline on the game so the game was rushed and incomplete (the trayus academy is the most repetitious, one dimensional stage I've ever seen), but overall it's still a great game, if only they had more time to iron things out.

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in my opinion, mira's backstory was MUCh better than bastilas

 

bastila: *cries* "my mummy is a meanie!! and im a spoiled little jedi *****!"

mira: "yeah i was a mandalorian slave... then became bounty hunter... getting stalked by a psychotic wookie because i saved his life..."

 

 

btw, sorry to all bastila fans out there, but i seriously dont like her. she keeps preaching to you about the jedi code when she cant even follow it!! (and i DONT mean her turning to the dark side, or the romance. just general dialogue!!)

 

and im a mira fanboy

me: "hi, my names Shryke, and im a fanboy"

fanboys anonymous group: *hi shryke*

when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse!

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come on, be serious here. she was a mandalorian slave when she was younger, she had no one to turn to, no one to trust. then when she finally escaped and became a bounty hunter, she was still very much alone.

its not until she actually starts to travel with the exile that she realises that he/she is someone she can begin to trust.

 

 

 

*sigh* :) wait a minute!! oh noes!!! ive converted completely to the fanboy side!!

when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse!

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you have to realize that they made the game like this::dark side learn about some characters:;light side others:: because after you play and beat one time light, and one time dark, the third time there is more diologue and more informaion, better crystal finds, levels come easier ect.

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I think K2 would have benefitted from having the party members interact more (during quests and even when you're talking to an NPC). I could count on one hand the times when one of them actually had something to say out in the field, whereas in Kotor1 someone was always chiming in with an opinion. Not only that, but they talked and argued with each other, until you almost felt sorry for Revan.

 

This was a good way to liven the atmosphere a bit and also to get to know your party members. Not a big thing, but something I missed.

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Dont get me wrong, i enjoyed K2 (minus the ending) as much as K1 and found that K2 was a lot darker and deeper BUT small things that made kotor 1 more memorable were not in K2.

Examples:

 

Backround information on your party members.

 

For example in KOTOR one you pretty much found out through conversing with party members where they were born, what kind of life they lived, how they were raised, how they came to be what they were , etc etc. IN KOTOR 1 conversations would appear as you gained experience, so you go the entire story of every character. It makes the whole experience alot better. IN k2 (besides visas coming from katarr and mandalore from ordo) you dont know where any of your party members were born and raised. You dont know what kind of lives they lived, who their heroes were, who their family was. Mira had pathetic lines like "i had a mother once, somewhere" whereas in K1 you had bastila explaining how she and her mother were never on good terms. Kreia also says something about Miras father at the end of the game, but we know nothing about him.

 

Kreia was my all time favorite character in both KOTORs and i sit here wondering what i know about her and i know absolutely nothing about her past. Why was she exiled, where was she born, how did she fall to the dark side, what wars did she fight in, etc etc.

Clear this up for me, maybe i just didnt get enough influence. Where were these chars born?

Mira? Atton? Disciple? Handmaiden? Kreia?

 

 

Party interaction- IN k1 there was a little bit of party interaction for exaple carth and mission fighting about her childish behaviour, canderous provoking bastila, etc. In K2 there was barely any interaction between them ( off of the ebon hawk)between characters. Never once did mira speak to mandalore, meanwhile she used to be a slave to the mandalorians when her world was conquered.

 

 

I gotta admit, when I read these two points in first post I was baffled and still am! The background info (relevant info) was much more detailed in K2 then it was in K1. Atton, Mira, Visas, Handmaiden, Bao, they all had excellent background info that K1 never even came close to matching. Heck even T3 had background stuff this time around.

 

As for party interaction (or comedy for that matter) The FUNNIEST character interaction of either game for me came by having Handmaiden and Atton with me when I met up with that guy who want the ebon hawk on nar shaddar. It was awsome and K2 was FILLED with little things like that, you just had to find the right combo of characters to have with you.

 

Gotta say, I think people complaining about backgrounds, interaction, and comedy are totally out to lunch. What game were you playing because all of those items are in abundance and more in KotOR2. Far more then K1 had, thats for sure.

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I gotta admit, when I read these two points in first post I was baffled and still am! The background info (relevant info) was much more detailed in K2 then it was in K1. Atton, Mira, Visas, Handmaiden, Bao, they all had excellent background info that K1 never even came close to matching. Heck even T3 had background stuff this time around.

 

As for party interaction (or comedy for that matter) The FUNNIEST character interaction of either game for me came by having Handmaiden and Atton with me when I met up with that guy who want the ebon hawk on nar shaddar. It was awsome and K2 was FILLED with little things like that, you just had to find the right combo of characters to have with you.

 

Gotta say, I think people complaining about backgrounds, interaction, and comedy are totally out to lunch. What game were you playing because all of those items are in abundance and more in KotOR2. Far more then K1 had, thats for sure.

 

I think that perhaps they waiting for the level up spoonfeeding of KOTOR. Missed the journal entry that reminded you to talk to people after you had gained some levels.

 

KOTOR II is far less obvious than KOTOR which is the thing I like most about it.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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I think that perhaps they waiting for the level up spoonfeeding of KOTOR. Missed the journal entry that reminded you to talk to people after you had gained some levels.

 

KOTOR II is far less obvious than KOTOR which is the thing I like most about it.

 

Excuse me, but KotOR II is not subtle at all. No other game that I have played involves a character that you leave in your ship *cough*Kreia*cough* who somehow manages to inject *cough*herself*cough* into what you're doing because said person doesn't like a dialog choice you just made.

 

And what was so subtle about Atris opining on what the Handmaiden was doing? For that matter, what was subtle about G0-T0 requesting an upgrade? What subtlety exists in a game that absolutely insists on making you watch cutscenes that have everything to do with the cut portions of the game for the ending?

 

At least in KotOR I, the cutscenes actually related to the shipping product...

 

EDITED to indicate that KotOR II is not subtle.

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Excuse me, but KotOR II is not subtle at all. No other game that I have played involves a character that you leave in your ship *cough*Kreia*cough* who somehow manages to inject *cough*herself*cough* into what you're doing because said person doesn't like a dialog choice you just made.

 

And what was so subtle about Atris opining on what the Handmaiden was doing? For that matter, what was subtle about G0-T0 requesting an upgrade? What subtlety exists in a game that absolutely insists on making you watch cutscenes that have everything to do with the cut portions of the game for the ending?

 

At least in KotOR I, the cutscenes actually related to the shipping product...

 

EDITED to indicate that KotOR II is not subtle.

 

What does that have to do with anything ? Kriea is a Jedi and Jedi can do that sort of thing.

 

Obviously your missing the whole subtle thing since it relates to the fact that people dont just give you new dialogue when you level, but rather new dialogue opens depending on you actions.

 

Yes and KOTOR I still had a bland boring story which shared rather too much with NwN. Whatever beef you have with the game, your complaints have zip to do with subtlety.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Your insistence that the game is subtle implies that you have to search out things in the game. The fact that Kreia basically craps herself into conversations that she has nothing to do with means that it isn't subtle.

 

The fact that I have to spell this out makes me wonder if you really understand what subtle means.

 

Now, if you had said that the game isn't all Black or White and required you to actually seek out conversations instead of spoon-feeding the plot to you, I'd agree up to a point. I'd even agree with you that the dialog that we get is better written than KotOR I (though massively inconsistent). It's unfortunate that all that tapestry is completely unravelled by the script-fest at the end that pretty much abandons the influence system (however buggy it may be), ignores your teammates (and has some pretty fanciful Physics side-effects to boot (who fixed the Ebon Hawk, BTW?)), and has no ending (which was a relief to me, BTW).

 

All said, I am starting to have fun playing the game (with the exception of the ending) because there are some things about this game that are better than the first. It is just so unfortunate, and convenient, that the developers ran out of time to put all the pieces together to make a truly great game, one that would actually live up to the term subtle.

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I think it lacked the ability to kill party members. In the first game, I only had 3 party members: Bastila,Canderous,and T3 at the end of the game.Killed Juhani on Dantooine,Jolee,Mission,and Zaalbar on Rakatan homeworld,and Carth on the Star Forge. :-

 

hmmm you killed Carth on the Star Forge did you?

 

thats pretty amazing as if you go DS Carth doesnt even make it to the Star forge (runs away from you on the planet below).

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Dictionary is your friend.

 

 

So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe.

Difficult to understand; abstruse: an argument whose subtle point was lost on her opponent.

Characterized by skill or ingenuity; clever.

Crafty or sly; devious.

Operating in a hidden, usually injurious way; insidious: a subtle poison.

 

 

as opposed to

 

Easily perceived or understood; quite apparent. See Synonyms at apparent.

Easily seen through because of a lack of subtlety; transparent: an obvious political ploy.

 

Which is KOTOR to a tee.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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