Graphics like these in Kotor3

[mstormrage]

A qualified yes. As long as there's a decent story and that whoever gets the franchise this time actually finishes the game. I don't care how great the graphics and sound are if the game is similar to the unfinished mess called KotOR II.

[Darkside]

elite elite Im thinking the hell wih the old design its gonna have to be rebuilt

 

so in essence it will be a new ship

 

 

not to mention the ebon hawk is vital. please ask me why

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Because, a new ship shows some creativity on the part of the game's maker. Plus, if we're a new PC in KOTOR3 then how are we going to end up with the Hawk this time? We were suddenly attacked by Sith, saw the ship, and flew off in it? Or maybe the Exile gives it to us before leaving to find Revan? Come on, I want a new ship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hmmm... we could always start with a new ship and find the Hawk later, maybe with Revan in it...

P.S. Before anyone says it, I know it would be extremely difficult to bring Rev back, if not impossible. But hey, a girl can dream can't she?

[Wraith]

I'll ask you why. Why?

 

because the hawk is the falcon

 

 

in the books it said the original design for the millenium falcon was an old freighter

 

the freightor was so old that they didnt know how old it really was, but it was such a well engineered ship and held a fairly good design. so they decided to use it and then the yt 1300 freightor was born, it does look different but they made some major alterations to it

 

this part is rumor but I heard that lando got the original yt 1300 which still had components from the old ship

[alanschu]

I'll ask you why. Why?

 

because the hawk is the falcon

 

 

in the books it said the original design for the millenium falcon was an old freighter

 

the freightor was so old that they didnt know how old it really was, but it was such a well engineered ship and held a fairly good design. so they decided to use it and then the yt 1300 freightor was born, it does look different but they made some major alterations to it

 

this part is rumor but I heard that lando got the original yt 1300 which still had components from the old ship

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes the Hawk is the Falcon.....but it made sense for the Falcon to be in the original three movies, since the pilot/owner of the Falcon is in all three movies.

 

To have the Hawk simply for having the sake of the Hawk begins to stretch plausibility...no matter how convincing of a story they make it out to be. The Hawk in KOTOR 2 makes sense, because they basically just found it, and since everyone knew it was Revan's ship, they'd pick it up. After hell breaks loose, they try to escape on it simply for escaping on it. That was a good reason.

 

But if something like that were to happen again, then I'd feel it would still be stretching it simply to have the Hawk for the sake of having the Hawk.

 

 

 

The only way I would want to have the Hawk in the game, is if the Exile is still using it and they make up one hell of a good reason for it to transfer over to your control.

[Volourn]

Yes. KOTOR3 should have better graphics. Anyone who votes otherwise is just being silly. "

[zeroFantasy]

and what will everyone on this planet to with their current computers?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

and what will everyone on this planet to with their current computers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

upgrade or replace them. Thats another reason to love consoles. I paid around

[PhantomJedi]

and what will everyone on this planet to with their current computers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm talking about consoles because in the begining only consoles are going to have the computing power and graphics cards to push graphics like these.

[tmp]

I'm talking about consoles because in the begining only consoles are going to have the computing power and graphics cards to push graphics like these.

So, am supposed to spend $300+ on a 'new generation' console, or at least as much on pieces for a computer ... just so i can play a game which is basically old KotOR with cranked up visuals?

 

no, thank you. if i ever get deranged to the point i'd seriously consider this kind of expense for such trivial gain, feel free to shoot me.

[Illunder]

I'm all for a new engine as long as it's not at the expense of gameplay. The Oblivion engine would be my first choice for many reasons in no particular order

*It comes with a toolset!!(w00t)

*It comes with a toolset!!! (w00t)

*Radiant A.I.

*It is from what I've read on the Elderscrolls forum (from one of the developers can't remember who though) midrange friendly- they have Oblivion running on an ATI 9800 or something similiar

*Uses Havok physics IIRC

*Looks gorgeous

There are bad points of course

*Beth are either rather reluctant to let anybody else use their engines or just won't consider it at all

*The skills system (which they are still using to the best of my knowledge) isn't exactly d20 compatible but the developers may be able to work around that

*Umm can't think of anything else, except maybe the cost of licensing the engine

 

Well that's my 2 pence, feel free to shoot me down or not as the case may be.

[zeroFantasy]

I'm talking about consoles because in the begining only consoles are going to have the computing power and graphics cards to push graphics like these.

So, am supposed to spend $300+ on a 'new generation' console, or at least as much on pieces for a computer ... just so i can play a game which is basically old KotOR with cranked up visuals?

 

no, thank you. if i ever get deranged to the point i'd seriously consider this kind of expense for such trivial gain, feel free to shoot me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hey I got a new comp and a video card to play KOTOR. It was worth it.

[Yst]

I'm talking about consoles because in the begining only consoles are going to have the computing power and graphics cards to push graphics like these.

So, am supposed to spend $300+ on a 'new generation' console, or at least as much on pieces for a computer ... just so i can play a game which is basically old KotOR with cranked up visuals?

 

no, thank you. if i ever get deranged to the point i'd seriously consider this kind of expense for such trivial gain, feel free to shoot me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I too am becoming frustrated with the pushing forward of new and ever more expensive technologies which offer for their price essentially nothing at all new to game design.

 

When I look at the consoles I currently own and consider what each brought to the table, I can pretty confidently say that each new generation really did offer something the previous hadn't really made possible yet.

 

My TI99, even at its absolute best, can't manage anything better than representative, iconic graphics. There's no real attempt to create immersive art. It's chiefly symbolically representative stuff. So even its best RPG, Tunnels of Doom, merely has symbolic figures:

 

 

 

Forward several years to the NES and I've suddenly got representations of landscapes, geography and monsters which actually look something like monsters. And it all loads from a cart. No need for finicky casette tapes, and it can save my game, too. A big step toward the vivid depiction of RPG worlds.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the SNES and now worlds are depicted in lush colour, with what seems like an almost limitless number of detailed sprites on screen at any given time, and backgrounds that are complex enough to look like they could be straight out of a comic book. The art style identifiably comes through here and backgrounds are animated, with new and different animations and backgrounds crafted for each setting. It's not just "see if we can make a monster in 30 pixels using two colours" anymore, and the world isn't made up of a set of square building blocks a la Dragon Warrior here. It's something completely different.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the N64 and now complex 3D environments are possible. Not just sprites, not just polygons, but texture mapped worlds. Nothing like this had ever been done in the last generation of consoles. Flat shading and sprites as alternate options when depicting 3D spaces had given way to detailed environements with shaded and textured surfaces.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the Xbox and humans have finally, in this generation, taken appreciable human form, looking more like bodies than messes of polygons clinging to each other for dear life. Furthermore, formerly impossibly complex objects like grass and trees can be depicted convincingly and immersively. We have humans that look like humans, with real facial features which look like rounded surfaces rather than a mess of triangles.

 

 

 

 

Of all these, I think the last was the most important step.

 

My concern is, I don't know what comes afterward. With convincing rounded surfaces, believable human character models, grass, trees and all those formerly oh-so-irritating technologically impeded aspects of a gameworld effectively depicted already in existing game engines, I don't know what the technology will add to gameplay in the coming generation.

 

Will there be more grass per square foot? Who cares? That's not gameplay. That's statistics.

 

Already, it seems that artistic resources are seeing more strain than technology. We don't have a problem with an absence of detail in NPC models: we have a problem with the reuse of the same NPC models over and over again in the same games (true for both KotOR games and JE) because the human resources aren't there to detail enough models to populate the world. Rendering a world in infinite complexity just makes more work for more people. Maybe we'll be able to render it. Will we be able to populate it? I see the next gen console makers throwing statistics at me, but I don't see them demonstrating how these statistics will take gaming forward in any way. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Darth Tratious]

i think this is sorta a dumb poll because atleast i think we all want better graphics for the next game if they ever make it

[Parph Dioak]

I like those graphics but if they used the graphics in the other two games I'll still be happy.

[Illunder]

I like those graphics but if they used the graphics in the other two games I'll still be happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Maybe a better way to put it would be not so much a question of graphics but of functionality. It's a shame that graphics are more of a selling point than gameplay

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Maybe a better way to put it would be not so much a question of graphics but of functionality.     It's a shame that graphics are more of a selling point than gameplay 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nintendo feel that way too.

[simply yellow]

I'm talking about consoles because in the begining only consoles are going to have the computing power and graphics cards to push graphics like these.

So, am supposed to spend $300+ on a 'new generation' console, or at least as much on pieces for a computer ... just so i can play a game which is basically old KotOR with cranked up visuals?

 

no, thank you. if i ever get deranged to the point i'd seriously consider this kind of expense for such trivial gain, feel free to shoot me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I too am becoming frustrated with the pushing forward of new and ever more expensive technologies which offer for their price essentially nothing at all new to game design.

 

When I look at the consoles I currently own and consider what each brought to the table, I can pretty confidently say that each new generation really did offer something the previous hadn't really made possible yet.

 

My TI99, even at its absolute best, can't manage anything better than representative, iconic graphics. There's no real attempt to create immersive art. It's chiefly symbolically representative stuff. So even its best RPG, Tunnels of Doom, merely has symbolic figures:

 

 

 

Forward several years to the NES and I've suddenly got representations of landscapes, geography and monsters which actually look something like monsters. And it all loads from a cart. No need for finicky casette tapes, and it can save my game, too. A big step toward the vivid depiction of RPG worlds.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the SNES and now worlds are depicted in lush colour, with what seems like an almost limitless number of detailed sprites on screen at any given time, and backgrounds that are complex enough to look like they could be straight out of a comic book. The art style identifiably comes through here and backgrounds are animated, with new and different animations and backgrounds crafted for each setting. It's not just "see if we can make a monster in 30 pixels using two colours" anymore, and the world isn't made up of a set of square building blocks a la Dragon Warrior here. It's something completely different.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the N64 and now complex 3D environments are possible. Not just sprites, not just polygons, but texture mapped worlds. Nothing like this had ever been done in the last generation of consoles. Flat shading and sprites as alternate options when depicting 3D spaces had given way to detailed environements with shaded and textured surfaces.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the Xbox and humans have finally, in this generation, taken appreciable human form, looking more like bodies than messes of polygons clinging to each other for dear life. Furthermore, formerly impossibly complex objects like grass and trees can be depicted convincingly and immersively. We have humans that look like humans, with real facial features which look like rounded surfaces rather than a mess of triangles.

 

 

 

 

Of all these, I think the last was the most important step.

 

My concern is, I don't know what comes afterward. With convincing rounded surfaces, believable human character models, grass, trees and all those formerly oh-so-irritating technologically impeded aspects of a gameworld effectively depicted already in existing game engines, I don't know what the technology will add to gameplay in the coming generation.

 

Will there be more grass per square foot? Who cares? That's not gameplay. That's statistics.

 

Already, it seems that artistic resources are seeing more strain than technology. We don't have a problem with an absence of detail in NPC models: we have a problem with the reuse of the same NPC models over and over again in the same games (true for both KotOR games and JE) because the human resources aren't there to detail enough models to populate the world. Rendering a world in infinite complexity just makes more work for more people. Maybe we'll be able to render it. Will we be able to populate it? I see the next gen console makers throwing statistics at me, but I don't see them demonstrating how these statistics will take gaming forward in any way. We'll just have to wait and see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

what will come next hopefully won't just be about more texture detail, but bigger game size. Bigger game areas to continousely run around without load screens. Bigger games creating truly realistic environments not just realistic graphics. I think Zelda 64 came as close to this as any, I mean look at the draw distance, the 360 degree movement. Compare that to Fable which had better graphics but nowhere near the immersion because it was made up of mostly narrow pathways with many load screens in between, little freedon of movement, and really not a great deal to explore. A 'Look but don't touch' sort of environment. The graphics are great - what there is of them.

What we need are games with high quality graphics but also total go anywhere freedom, and I hope that that is where the technology will be taking game development.

[PhantomJedi]

I'm talking about consoles because in the begining only consoles are going to have the computing power and graphics cards to push graphics like these.

So, am supposed to spend $300+ on a 'new generation' console, or at least as much on pieces for a computer ... just so i can play a game which is basically old KotOR with cranked up visuals?

 

no, thank you. if i ever get deranged to the point i'd seriously consider this kind of expense for such trivial gain, feel free to shoot me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I too am becoming frustrated with the pushing forward of new and ever more expensive technologies which offer for their price essentially nothing at all new to game design.

 

When I look at the consoles I currently own and consider what each brought to the table, I can pretty confidently say that each new generation really did offer something the previous hadn't really made possible yet.

 

My TI99, even at its absolute best, can't manage anything better than representative, iconic graphics. There's no real attempt to create immersive art. It's chiefly symbolically representative stuff. So even its best RPG, Tunnels of Doom, merely has symbolic figures:

 

 

 

Forward several years to the NES and I've suddenly got representations of landscapes, geography and monsters which actually look something like monsters. And it all loads from a cart. No need for finicky casette tapes, and it can save my game, too. A big step toward the vivid depiction of RPG worlds.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the SNES and now worlds are depicted in lush colour, with what seems like an almost limitless number of detailed sprites on screen at any given time, and backgrounds that are complex enough to look like they could be straight out of a comic book. The art style identifiably comes through here and backgrounds are animated, with new and different animations and backgrounds crafted for each setting. It's not just "see if we can make a monster in 30 pixels using two colours" anymore, and the world isn't made up of a set of square building blocks a la Dragon Warrior here. It's something completely different.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the N64 and now complex 3D environments are possible. Not just sprites, not just polygons, but texture mapped worlds. Nothing like this had ever been done in the last generation of consoles. Flat shading and sprites as alternate options when depicting 3D spaces had given way to detailed environements with shaded and textured surfaces.

 

 

 

 

Forward several years to the Xbox and humans have finally, in this generation, taken appreciable human form, looking more like bodies than messes of polygons clinging to each other for dear life. Furthermore, formerly impossibly complex objects like grass and trees can be depicted convincingly and immersively. We have humans that look like humans, with real facial features which look like rounded surfaces rather than a mess of triangles.

 

 

 

 

Of all these, I think the last was the most important step.

 

My concern is, I don't know what comes afterward. With convincing rounded surfaces, believable human character models, grass, trees and all those formerly oh-so-irritating technologically impeded aspects of a gameworld effectively depicted already in existing game engines, I don't know what the technology will add to gameplay in the coming generation.

 

Will there be more grass per square foot? Who cares? That's not gameplay. That's statistics.

 

Already, it seems that artistic resources are seeing more strain than technology. We don't have a problem with an absence of detail in NPC models: we have a problem with the reuse of the same NPC models over and over again in the same games (true for both KotOR games and JE) because the human resources aren't there to detail enough models to populate the world. Rendering a world in infinite complexity just makes more work for more people. Maybe we'll be able to render it. Will we be able to populate it? I see the next gen console makers throwing statistics at me, but I don't see them demonstrating how these statistics will take gaming forward in any way. We'll just have to wait and see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Graphics immerse you in the game play. If no one pushed the envelpe in terms of graphics we would still be stuck in 8 bit land imagining what the character would really look like. Maybe people just like to look at something that is beautiful to look at because a) they can't go see it themselves or b) it does not exist(we are talking about star wars here). That is why graphics need to evolve. But then again that is just my crazy theory.

 

I think the the statistics are ment more for devs than you. Gives them something to think about.

[Illunder]

Maybe a better way to put it would be not so much a question of graphics but of functionality.     It's a shame that graphics are more of a selling point than gameplay 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nintendo feel that way too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I know, I have a GameCube

[jawa slayer]

PhantomJedi:

Quote: "My concern is, I don't know what comes afterward. With convincing rounded surfaces, believable human character models, grass, trees and all those formerly oh-so-irritating technologically impeded aspects of a gameworld effectively depicted already in existing game engines, I don't know what the technology will add to gameplay in the coming generation."

 

I think the next step will be looking at the computer graphics and not thinking they are computer graphics, which up until now you can't. I remember being amazed when I went to see the Final Fantasy film, for the first half hour I wasn't sure if it was real people acting of computer graphics. The cut scenes on final fantasy X get close to this, but this is the future of games I think, when you don't think "look at those wonderful graphics" but instead "look at that wondeful place". Looking at the pictures that started this thread I think the consoles are getting close, then maybe they will start to evolve, maybe under that pressure they will start inventing new technologies instead of improveing what they have...holographic projectors are next I think (jokes!)

[Guest Fishboot]

Fantastic post Yst. I'm also wary of better graphics (for RPGs in particular) because it certainly means more and more expensive art required to make a credible game - which means even fewer RPG releases, a tendency to "blockbusterize" them, and wasted developer focus on creating hype. I think there's already a lot more good ideas and licenses for RPGs than there are funds to make the artwork for them - and I'd rather have two games that look like KotOR than one game that looks like Oblivion.

 

On the other hand, I'd be interested to see whether Bethesda would be interested in licensing the Oblivion engine and some art resources, assuming they're coming from in-house - given the usual Bethesda modus operandi they put out one gargantuan 100+ hour RPG every four or five years, so they certainly wouldn't be losing any competitive edge by selling out the engine since they'd need a new one for the next Elder Scrolls game. Given that the Oblivion engine would have a lot of RPG functionality it might be a good fit.

[jmac714]

I've seen better, besides, why would you want current technology in a future game,what if they use an engine from nowadays, and then Bioware came out with an Odyssey2 (or something like that). You'd be f'd in the a' because you were awed by some screens at the time.

[jodo kast 5]

Click on the links to see the images.

 

Gears of War Sceenshot

Elder Scrolls Sceenshot 1

Elder Scrolls Screenshot 2

Elder Scrolls Screenshot 3

 

I think it would be pretty cool to see Kotor3 in graphics simailar to these other titles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man,those graphics are BEAUTIFUL,im with you PhantomJedi.

[ncr]

Personally, I hope they go back to NES style graphics for KOTOR 3.

[Meresin]

A new engine with improved graphics and improved efficiency would be nice.