What are the point of Vibroblades?

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

As for vibroblades, some people really do carry knives, i guess this wuld be the SW equivalent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or swords.

 

No one messes with me when I have my Conan the Barbarian Atlantean sword.

 

Of course it's still on the plaque, but that's beside the point.

[Darth Flatus]

no you are right Sarja about the precognition. Qui gon says something about being able to sense things before they happen.

 

Drakron if you dont beleive jedi can push things away then you havent been paying atention to the movies or maybe you've never seen them

[Artem]

Makes total sense to me, Vidbroblades and other mele weapons weren't ment for jedi. Only Jedi, "sith," and/or force-attuned people could used light sabers, It's a special ability to even be able to use one. The first weapons invented was probably a rock, then a blunt weapon, the a knife, then a spear, then a sword. Since only a select(trained) few can use a lightsaber, then what will everyone else use? A sword of course, and even better a vibro-blade. The "vibro" part is explained soooo many times, you just need to look.

 

No but you don't understand what I mean. I mean if Blaster shots are one hit one kill=incpicatate then what is the point of a vibroblade?

 

Anyways everyone is getting offtopic with this whole Matrix and bullet thing. The question for me atleast was answered...Vibroblades are because the blasters couldn't get through the energy shields, while a sword can. And the reason that the OT and PT don't use vibroblades is because blaster rifles have evolved enough that there are no energy shields that can stop them.

 

So...case closed I guess.

[jedipodo]

And the reason that the OT and PT don't use vibroblades is because blaster rifles have evolved enough that there are no energy shields that can stop them.

 

So...case closed I guess.

 

I think the case isn't closed yet. The question remains why droidekas from the PT, as they have personal shielding, aren't fought by vibroblades.

[Drakron]

One thing is pushing a battle droid a bit so they fall and another is stopping a bullet traving at near sonic speed dead in its track, even redirecting then would take considerable effort.

 

Also there is the factor of time, a bullet would take a second to reach its target and the movies shown the Jedi always have to concentrate for a few seconds.

 

Also please do notice they always raise their hand before trying to do that, one thing that shows Anakin/Vader power is that he was able to rip parts of machinary and move then around without even needing to make such focus.

 

Oh and in droidekas case ...

 

Well to start there were no major conflicts for centuries, there was no need to outfit what is pretty much the local militia with such dedicated equipment as it would be a waste of resources, besides there is still the fact its a melee weapon and you have to run to a droid outfited with 4 blasters (or if you prefere, 2 double barrel blasters), its best to keep behind cover and wear the shield down or use granades.

 

Also notice that even Qui Gon did not wanted to go up to then and slice then, my guess is they would simply roll away and resume fire.

[jedipodo]

Also there is the factor of time, a bullet would take a second to reach its target and the movies shown the Jedi always have to concentrate for a few seconds.

 

Also please do notice they always raise their hand before trying to do that,

 

The Jedi's trick is to have the hands up *before* the shot is fired.

 

BTW the cheesy hand waving is there to help the audience realizing what's going on.

[Tarquelne]

no you are right Sarja about the precognition. Qui gon says something about being able to sense things before they happen.

 

Is that what he meant?

 

I took it differently.

 

I thought he was saying that the Force's origin is in almost 0-dimensional "cosmic strings" that exist within mitochondria.

These ~0-dimensional bits of cosmic flotsam are left over from the creation of the universe, and the total number of such strings captured within living beings represent the total life

[Darth Flatus]

...ermm qui gon's comment was about anakin being the only human able to pod race....

[metadigital]

no you are right Sarja about the precognition. Qui gon says something about being able to sense things before they happen.

Is that what he meant?

 

I took it differently.

 

I thought he was saying that the Force's origin is in almost 0-dimensional "cosmic strings" that exist within mitochondria.

These ~0-dimensional bits of cosmic flotsam are left over from the creation of the universe, and the total number of such strings captured within living beings represent the total life

[Tarquelne]

...ermm qui gon's comment was about anakin being the only human able to pod race....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought the "pod race" was a metaphor for the progress of human culture.

 

I'm still waiting for my copy of the 2 volume Qui Gon Bible from LucasArts Publishing. I'll take a look at the exegesis when I get it.

 

 

Seriously though, that cosmic string thing was exactly what you said it was, just another magical explaination for the Force. (I made it up on the spot.) Given the "science fantasy" nature of the SW universe I think that while asking "Why vibroblades?" is a interesting question, as it leans toward the "science" part of the setting. Hmm... actually, it's just that the Jedi aren't so much involved, so that a coherent socio-technological explaination should exist.

 

Where Jedi powers are concerned, OTOH, anything goes. As you say, it's magic. Maybe the Jedi can stop bullets, maybe they can't, maybe only blue ones. There's nothing in the setting - short of a statment of what's cannon from the Lucas Apparatus or a clear statement in a movie on a particular subject - to tell us just what force users can or can't really do. It's magic.

 

And while I think the SW movies have done a good job of keeping the magic consistent from scene to scene, and "cool" more often than not (cue discussion of Jedi as Samuri/Martial artists), I hope GL doesn't ever try to go deeper into how it works, the "technical" data. To be frank, I don't trust any of the writers - esp. him - involved with SW to come up with an explaination I'd think was "good" - plausible (even for fantasy), consistent (the hardest part, probably), and cool (personally, if something is implausible and inconsistent I have trouble seeing it as cool). I havn't seen anything statisfactory (IMO, of course) so far. OTOH, I'm far from well read in the SW fiction.

 

Heh... it's not like I'm a big SW fan anyway. After upping the difficulty I've enjoyed the games, though!

[Artem]

guys please stop going offtopic. This has nothing to do with midichlorians, bullets, dodging or whatever.

 

We have a good question is to why they dont use Vibroblades on droids....one of you had a nice point, which I think is realistic. Is the case closed now?

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

Do I sense satire in this thread?

 

You're a classy poster Tarq. I like that.

[vl182]

i started to play kotor I again and found that someone who sells energy shields explains this matter. his name is larrim, and you find him on taris

[Tarquelne]

guys please stop going offtopic. This has nothing to do with midichlorians, bullets, dodging or whatever.

 

We have a good question is to why they dont use Vibroblades on droids....one of you had a nice point, which I think is realistic. Is the case closed now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hello what? Electrons a finite resource?

 

Oh, vibroblades? I'm not going to look up exactly who said what earlier, though I largely agreed with what most agreed (IIRC) so far as vibroblades and shields and driods.

 

I wish the "protects against melee weapons" shields hadn't appeared in the game, though. One can assume such shields are too expensive to be issued to an army. Maybe not due to the cost being prohibitive so much as unwarrented - blaster combat still seemed to be the norm. But still, I was disappointed to see them. I liked the "shields are new and protect against blasters." explaination... though I did wonder about slug-throwers or, at the very least, some sort of ranged vibro weapon.

 

The use of vibroblades might also demonstrate that VERY close quarter combat is extremely common in the SW universe. (Or at least during KOTOR times.) And a vibroblade is less likely to kill a bystander or friendly if you miss with it due to it's meter or two range. So perhaps lots of shipboard and urban combat? Meter ranges are common, and preventing collatoral damage a big concern. Vibroblades might also be significantly stealthier, too. Important when armor doesn't work well. Some cybernetic enhancements or combat-drugs might also make many soldiers very fast moving. Hard to hit with a ranged weapon, and they'll be on top of you (swining their swords) very quickly.

 

Come to think of it, I like that better than the shields-centric explaination. Combat is fast and deadly, and a blaster is just too clumsy. Not supported by the movies, I think, but since I'm more concerned with the games than the movies (and not that concerned about this matter, anyway, for reasons given below) I'll just live in my own little fantasy, thank you.

 

 

ENGAGE RAMBLING:

 

I think the biggest hole in the SW combat, and universe in general, is the seeming lack of computers. I don't remember any smart weapons or "self aiming" weapons. (Or even high rate of fire automatic weapons?)

It'd still be possible to inject some hummanity into a super-speed highly computerized battle, but I'm sure that's far more "techie" than GL wanted to go. I've read that GL, in fact, showed his people footage of WWII fighter combat to base the space fighter battles off. (True?) But even if a cadre of repected hard-sci fi authors offered their serves to GL, to add "realistic" high-tech stuff to SW (for free!) I'm sure GL would refuse - and rightly so.

 

Whether the "WWII figher footage" thing is true or not, the battles certainly seemed like they were based on that period to me. And I don't think that's at all coincidental. Much of the reason WWII is so facinating to WWII buffs (such as myself) is that while the machinery of the conflect was both varied, powerful, and kewl (if you're into that sort of thing) the "human element" was still of overriding importance. Not that training isn't still exheedingly important, and won't be in the future... but I think there is a big qualitative difference - not just quantitative - between WWII-era combat and the more electronic/computerized stuff that's followed, so far as the importance of the human element goes. (IMO good flight sims show this difference well, btw.) If nothing else, reading the radar in your fly-by-wire jet and then pushing a button to lauch your missle at 20k range is far less visceral than, say, fighting the stick on your Bf-109 to make a 300 kph turn away from the Spitfire you've just noticed (with your Mk. 1 Eyeball) diving out of the sun.

 

SW, with the mostly low RoF blasters, human piloted space "fighters", lightsabers (and vibroblades), driod armies and other such stuff has, I think, the same sort of balance between mechanism and humanity. The gadgets are highly varied and cool, but dwarfed by the qualities of the beings using them. The Jedi being the most extreme case. They're so powerfull they don't even use most of the tech around them. As science fiction I think SW pretty much sucks. Seen as space opera/"science fantasy", OTOH, it's good. I'm annoyed when people think Star Wars (or Star Trek) is representative of the whole of sci-fi. That's like taking the pulps of the 30's and 40's as representative of Western literature. But I don't think GL or anyone official has ever presented SW as being anything other than it is: A cash cow. Err, sorry, I mean a romantic (in the good vrs. evil, honor and swords sense) adventure, a world of magic and discovery. "Here there be Dragons". Even if there doesn't seem to be enough game to support a 2 ton carnivore. F'r example, given the BTW output of the flame, and assuming merely 1 flame per day, it'd have to take in over 60 goats a day. And that's just for the flame. If we include flight we have.....

[metadigital]

... I think the biggest hole in the SW combat, and universe in general, is the seeming lack of computers.  I don't remember any smart weapons or "self aiming" weapons.  (Or even high rate of fire automatic weapons?)

It'd still be possible to inject some hummanity into a super-speed highly computerized battle, but I'm sure that's far more "techie" than GL wanted to go.  I've read that GL, in fact, showed his people footage of WWII fighter combat to base the space fighter battles off.  (True?)  But even if a cadre of repected hard-sci fi authors offered their serves to GL, to add "realistic" high-tech stuff to SW (for free!) I'm sure GL would refuse - and rightly so. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is indeed true. When GL showed an early version of the film to close friends (including Speilberg) he had just the original WWII film spliced into the acting. (HE mentions it on the DVD special edition.) In fact, I've seen the original footage: there's some in "Midway", and other films that I don't remember right now.

 

I would agree with all your post, actually; GL is no scientist (heck he's barely a writer) and SW is a romantic adventure, to be sure. What is annoying to me is the total vapidity of the philosophical underpinnings of the universe (but that is another rant).

[Andkat]

The whole "vibroblades disable sheilds" theory is obsolete. FIrst off, there are melee sheilds. 2nd: There are disruptor weapons, which convert matter into it's component compunds, thus rendering sheild irelevant and useless. ANd I believe that It is mentione dthat Ion weapons may also penetrate sheilds (which ould technicallly render Droidekas obsolete). Hell, why doesn't everyone just utilize rapid fire slugs. I would prefer an Uzi or assault rifle over a blaster anyday. (I doubt a jedi could defclect or nulllify a consistent sytream of bullets, and energy sheild couldn'y deflect them). VIbroblades (or melee weapons in general), as mentioned by Trask when you query him on the Ebon Spire are primarily utilized in close-quarters or jedi combat. Also, vibrobaldes may be utilized to train jedi, and sparring is an official sport. And, if you are an assain, you could kill a gaurd or target far more swiftly with a sword than with a blaster.

 

EDIT: Damn you Microsoft word, you demolished the remnants of my once glorious aptitude for spelling!

[Heckur]

EDIT: Damn you Microsoft word, you demolished the remnants of my once glorious aptitude for spelling!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It helps if you select some other language than English in your spell checker first :D

[Tarquelne]

The whole "vibroblades disable sheilds" theory is obsolete. FIrst off, there are melee sheilds. 2nd: There are disruptor weapons, which convert matter into it's component compunds, thus rendering sheild irelevant and useless. ANd I believe that It is mentione dthat Ion weapons may also penetrate sheilds (which ould technicallly render Droidekas obsolete).

 

Melee shields, disrupters and ion weapons don't necessarily make shields (or the theory) "obsolete". If all of those things are considerably more expensive and/or less common than blasters and shields become less-usefull - since you may encounter one of those anti-shield items - but not necessarily not-worthwhile. Given the claimed use of shields they must be uncommon.

 

OTOH, they weren't very uncommon in the game. So: A screwy thing with the game? Or with the game's world? Or both? Personally, I was too busy wondering why everyone didn't just use those massive numbers of grenades floating around to worry to much about the shields I never used. Has anyone tried going through the games (at least KOTOR I) using nothing but grenades?

 

Hell, why doesn't everyone just utilize rapid fire slugs. I would prefer an Uzi or assault rifle over a blaster anyday.

 

I'll never forget my first view of KOTOR combat. Guys dressed funny looking gold foil shooting at some guy wearing the most godawful hat. All of them stading no more than a dozen or so paces apart, slowly squeezing off shots and missing more often than not, it seemed.... "What the heck do thy think they're doing!?" To tell the truth I shelved the game for a few months after that.

 

This blasters thing has GOT to be because everyone loves the sound blasters make, and their colorfull sfx. Obviously sheer lethality is not a major concern. In the future everyone recognises the overridding importance of style - the military uniforms are anamolies...

 

(I doubt a jedi could defclect or nulllify a consistent sytream of bullets, and energy sheild couldn'y deflect them).

 

... or we have to accept there's some practical reason not to use slugthrowers, and we have to come up with it on our own. Maybe in the SW universe normal clothing includes something like a perfected "ballistic weave" as a matter of course...

 

/smartbullets/

 

...and everyone wears jammers...

 

/ECCM/

 

...that can overcome any counter measures...

 

/optical-ATG smartbullets/

 

... and, um, the clothing also has, ah, "mico-refractive optical camo" built into the fibers, and constantly releases a cloud of them around each person...

 

/optical+infrared-ATG fired at 600 rounds per minute, with explosive payloads, plus rounds carrying a quickly decaying toxic gas and other exotics/

 

...and... err... everyone's personal telecommunications gear interferes with the magnetics used in linear accelerator slug-throwers...

 

/the bullets use chemical propellants/

 

...and the gear also suppresses chemical reactions!...

 

/why isn't that used as a deathbeam?/

 

....

 

 

I think we just have to impotently shake our fists at GL and take blasters as a given. Slap the most adequate, simple excuse on the inconsistencies and get on with the game...

 

 

Though, actually, what I did in KOTOR II was greatly increase the damage blasters do. I spent less time wondering why everyone seemed so fixated on the slow, clunky things, and since my party still used lots of melee weapons - 'cuz we're cool! - overall it just made the game harder (I avoided high blaster deflection skill) - which is a move in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

 

Of course that's modding the game/setting... but I always need to mod CRPGs to suit my tastes, anyway. Game developers can't please everyone, but given some mods and or modding tools I can please myself.

 

VIbroblades (or melee weapons in general), as mentioned by Trask when you query him on the Ebon Spire are primarily utilized in close-quarters or jedi combat.

 

It's a little known fact, but Jedi find it easy to make heads explode. Including each others heads. They agree to use lightsabers because the old head-explode thing cuts both ways, so to speak, and it's just... well, it's just gross.

[Tarquelne]

What is annoying to me is the total vapidity of the philosophical underpinnings of the universe (but that is another rant).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heh!

[jedipodo]

Come to think of it, I like that better than the shields-centric explaination.  Combat is fast and deadly, and a blaster is just too clumsy.  Not supported by the movies, I think, but since I'm more concerned with the games than the movies (and not that concerned about this matter, anyway, for reasons given below) I'll just live in my own little fantasy, thank you.

That is the point. Many things in KotOR1/2 are contrary to what is shown and told in the movies and the expanded universe(EU). For example, the game suggest that there are personal Stealth Field Generators, that every melee weapon is indestructible by a lightsaber or that a scout/soldier/scoundrel can even resist the force push of a Dark Jedi Master.

 

These "inaccuracies" are only tolerated due to the support of common RPG concepts (and fun).

 

For further discussion we should decide whether we talk about the SW universe in general or specifically about the game.

 

I think the biggest hole in the SW combat, and universe in general, is the seeming lack of computers.  I don't remember any smart weapons or "self aiming" weapons.  (Or even high rate of fire automatic weapons?)

It'd still be possible to inject some hummanity into a super-speed highly computerized battle, but I'm sure that's far more "techie" than GL wanted to go.

Huh? Most of the enemies in Episode I-III are computer brains and their individual physical appearances. Missiles find their target autonomously. Starfighters are controlled and/or navigated by computers/droids. Civilian droids think, repair, assist and communicate. Don't you remember R2D2? What is missing in your opinion, a "self aiming" flying blaster pistol?

 

BTW Star Trek remains a mystery to me, as they have a total of one single robot(it's a shame, they don't know how to create another one), but on the other hand they have a holodeck full of thinking computer simulated characters.

 

I've read that GL, in fact, showed his people footage of WWII fighter combat to base the space fighter battles off.  (True?)  But even if a cadre of repected hard-sci fi authors offered their serves to GL, to add "realistic" high-tech stuff to SW (for free!) I'm sure GL would refuse - and rightly so.

The attack on the first Death Star (1977) based upon a WWII film with similar action scenes. I've watched this film some years ago, but forgot the name.

 

"realistic" sci fi stuff? - That is a contradiction in terms anyway.

[tu2thepoo]

It's because all the Republic and Sith soldiers don't want the penalty to their blaster to-hit rolls when people are in melee range. LIKE DUH

 

anyway, about the swords-versus-melee shields thing; if all the melee shields are mandalorian designs, then it seems that unless you happen to run across a Main Character (identified by their halos and auras of power), chances are your opponent doesn't have the credits for a melee shield. Because, you know, if the mandalorians are defeated and scattered, it stands to reason their production facilities have been shut down and merchants are just selling off existing stock.

 

As for professional armies, it's basically the same idea. Sith power shields, I assume, are all your average grunt is going to get. Republic soldiers will just get plain-jane energy shields as standard issue, right? So if 95% of your enemies are going to have non-melee shields, then it makes sense to get close and hack at them with a sharp object of some kind like, i dunno, a SWORD.

 

And if you're gonna use a sword, then vibroblades have to be at least 2.4 times as good (scientifically measured, that).

[metadigital]

For further discussion we should decide whether we talk about the SW universe in general or specifically about the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Games and films only, please.

BTW Star Trek remains a mystery to me, as they have a total of one single robot(it's a shame, they don't know how to create another one), but on the other hand they have a holodeck full of thinking computer simulated characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The original series had the ship computer (voiced by Roddenberry's wife, who also played Nurse Chapel / Dr Chapel in the first film), so I think the general implication was that computers had miniaturized down to be an integral and inescapable part of every day items, so much so that they were assumed and not mentioned.

The point about Data (and his twin, Lore) was an homage to Isaac Asimov (another pillar of the Sci-Fi establishment) and his Robot stories (positronic brains and three laws of robotics); also mute testament to the complexity of the human intellect and what we haven't even discovered about it yet.

The attack on the first Death Star (1977) based upon a WWII film with similar action scenes. I've watched this film some years ago, but forgot the name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Midway. And a lot of other WWII films (e.g. I think Tora! Tora! Tora! had some, too).

"realistic" sci fi stuff? - That is a contradiction in terms anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all. You are referring to science fantasy. Science Fiction, the best imo, and the realistic stuff, is generally political plots based on slight futuristic environments or askew historical scenarios ...

[mkreku]

Vibroblades? So that's what they call diIdos nowadays..

 

Edit: Ok, so I had to bypass the foul language filter.. But my joke wouldn't have worked otherwise! And I don't think any children were harmed in the creation of this thread anyhow..

[jedipodo]

For further discussion we should decide whether we talk about the SW universe in general or specifically about the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Games and films only, please.

Ok, no EU. But the point remains: KotOR and films are contradictory.

 

The point about Data (and his twin, Lore) was an homage to Isaac Asimov (another pillar of the Sci-Fi establishment) and his Robot stories (positronic brains and three laws of robotics); also mute testament to the complexity of the human intellect and what we haven't even discovered about it yet.

Maybe it was intended as you said but since they used this stuff excessively in nearly all of the series and movies it became more of an inconsistency than a homage.

 

Midway. And a lot of other WWII films (e.g. I think Tora! Tora! Tora! had some, too).

I remember an older film in which american bomber squadrons fly through a valley to make several attack runs on a dam. That was exactly what we can see in "A New Hope".

 

"realistic" sci fi stuff? - That is a contradiction in terms anyway.

Not at all. You are referring to science fantasy. Science Fiction, the best imo, and the realistic stuff, is generally political plots based on slight futuristic environments or askew historical scenarios ...

The science fiction genre, as it is very pessimistic, (almost) always failed to foresee future technologies and their use (independently of whether the writers actually tried to, or not). Reality came different and disabused everybody (in analogy to science fantasy regarding the discrepancy with reality).

Ironically, nowadays science fiction literature even has the problem that it lags behind the real scientific world.

 

This is the reason why I generally don't see an important difference between science fiction and science fantasy.

[Tarquelne]

Edit: Well bloody H. I could have just linked to the wikipedia article on science fiction. I've just read the first section and it looks good, and I think the last paragraph of the first section addresses one of your points, jedipodo.

 

Science Fiction (wikipedia)

 

 

The great majority of the below doesn't directly concern SW. I take no responsibility for time wasted should anyone continue reading this message.

 

The science fiction genre, as it is very pessimistic, (almost) always failed to foresee future technologies and their use (independently of whether the writers actually tried to, or not). Reality came different and disabused everybody (in analogy to science fantasy regarding the discrepancy with reality).

Ironically, nowadays science fiction literature even has the problem that it lags behind the real scientific world.

 

There's lots of pessimistic sci-fi, and yet there's lots that isn't. Personally I'd have trouble justifying the characterization that sci-fi is "very pessimistic". (I'm also not sure just how that's supposed to relate to failing to forsee future technologies. Optimism certainly isn't equivilent to good foresight) And (see below) the degree of accuracy in crafting a future-world isn't as important as the methods used. No one is going to anticipate every technical innovation or implication, but what's important is how the author does handle those that do crop up in the story.

 

 

This is the reason why I generally don't see an important difference between science fiction and science fantasy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The significant difference is the degree to which the fiction tries and/or succeeds in

1) Presenting a coherent, consistent world.

2) Presenting technologies/cultures that are theoretically and practically plausible.

 

It's a more elusive factor, but I also look to how much the fictional technologies matter to the story. I'm tempted to just call SW "fantasy" because the Force is the only fictional "technology" that really matters to the story. Based on my far less-than-complete knowledge of SW fiction the rest is essentially window dressing. (Hmm... except maybe the Deathstar. Though if the SW setting was say, a fictional 1600-1800s, the DS could be a big ship with an enormous "sci fi" cannon.)

 

SW doesn't seem to care much about either 1 or 2. For example: computers.

 

It's true I did brush over the existance of all those driods... They'd completely slipped my mind. (Yea! I'm successfully blocking much of the previous two movies!) the thing is, if they've got AI (or it's appearance) then they're missing a LOT of tricks by confining that high level of information technology to running those clunky driods. For example: Flying self-aiming blasters. In the SW universe they're pretty much just yet another type of "actor in a rubber suit." Another section in the Monster Manual.

 

Hmm... maybe a good exercise would be looking at how hard it'd be to shift a story to a full fledged and somewhat stereotypical fantasy. The sort with orcs and elves and mages and dragons. Doing that with SW would, I think, be a trivial exercise. Doing that with say, most of Niven's "Known Space" books, Greg Egan's stuff, or all but the _last_ book of G. Benford's "Galactic Center" books would be tremendously difficulty, if not impossible. Difficult/impossible because too much of the stories revolve around things based very strongly on our non-magical reality.

 

And that's just some of the more "techie" stuff. There's lots of fantastic sci-fi that deals more with how tech. (or distance/seperation from the past) might change the "human condition" than the gorey details of the tech itself. Such fiction often has a number futuristic techs in the story, but only one or two key technologies have their implications examined. Hmm... a simple example would be Niven's "Teleporter world" (not the official title) stories. In the stories cheap teleportation exists. What's interesting for the purpose of this discussion is that Niven has explicitly stated that he thinks teleportation is a fantasy - that science is never going to give us teleportation. Yet he tries to construct a completely realistic world, taking teleportation as a given. He concentrates on the social and economic changes that might be caused by his fictional teleportation. Given the existance of only 1 "imponderable", and one with a decent "fake science" background, I'm happy with calling the stories sci-fi, and good sci-fi.

 

 

J. Varley's "Steel Beach" tells quite an interesting story of one persons life in a world with

1) Great longevity tech

2) Incredible medical tech

3) High dependancy/use of AI.

 

The sci fi tech is there, but the book is quite focused on one persons life. What he does and why, and how he feels about the whole thing. Gadgetry isn't just there to be entertaining - it opens up new opportunities, and the center of the story is how people choose to receive those opportunities. So the story keeps to the classic "examination of the human condition" that's supposed to be the focus of good literature.

 

Hmm... J. Barnes has several books that ask the reader to swallow several technoligies (plausible to a greater or lesser degree) but concentrates very much on the resulting society. How various cultures clash, and how people cope (or don't) with the options made available by the sci-fi tech.

 

A lack of "magical" explainations is a key part of the stories - all the stuff that might seem "indistinguishable from magic" has a strong, real, theoretical foundation, and characters don't resort to science-babble (made famous by Star Trek) when figuring out problems. The strange stuff the character encounter is generally figured out through applying a mix of fact and real yet-to-be-disproven theory.

 

I mentioned "all the stuff" having a theoretical foundation. Sorry, overstatement. Lots of sci-fi stories have a few "imponderables". Picking on Niven again: The "Known Space" stories have FTL travel with no real scientific foundation. Yet he does provide a fake scientific provenance, and his "hyperdrives" follow a consistent vaugly plausible set of rules. Fake science it is, magic it isn't. Personally, I'm always willing to simply swallow a few "fantastic" elements in a otherwise completely solid sci-fi story, especially if the author goes through the motions of supplying a "fake scientific" background, and when the "fantastic" thing concerns technology, not character.