Why think KotORII sucked?

[Laozi]

K2 was by far the best incomplete game I've ever played.  ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I think I can agree with that

 

 

 

As for this supposive depth that Kotor 2 had, it just doesn't exist, its just as easily transparent as the first game. The so called ambigiousness of your choices would only be so if you played your dialogue options with your eyes closed

[Ioini]

K1 sucked donkey balls

 

You can't see that people have different opinions...I think K1 was Bio's worst RPG...mainly bacause it was boring and had a crap story...but that's just my opinion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought the story was interesting and good, and caused many good discussions on the BW boards.

 

If that's not a good story to you I dunno what is.

[Baley]

PS:T,BG2...etc

 

As I said It is just my opinion

K1 also had the worst and most predictable plot-twist ever "

[Volourn]

"Proof is in the forums Volo.

 

If you wanna wade through all those old posts be my guess

 

Im sure not going to at this point in time! LOL"

 

Those types are in the minority. Same with the Obsidian fanboys who thought the oopposite.

 

 

"LOL, did I say EVERY BW fanboi. Nope I didnt! Thus ends your statement."

 

LOL I'm the bigbest BIO fanboy around yet I still don't fit yourd escription. R00fles!

 

 

"But its still more mature then K1 or JE"

 

No. JE has more maturity in its pinky thumb then the KOTOR series have combined in their entire bodies.

 

I'm sorry; but 'I must kill the force 'cause is evil!" is NOT mature.

[GhostofAnakin]

I'm sorry; but 'I must kill the force 'cause is evil!" is NOT mature.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In fairness, you do have a tendency to simplify the KOTOR2 plot. It'd be like saying JE is a simple, immature story because it's about "a middle child who was jealous of his older brother".

[Volourn]

"In fairness, you do have a tendency to simplify the KOTOR2 plot. It'd be like saying JE is a simple, immature story because it's about "a middle child who was jealous of his older brother"."

 

Actually, I could simplify JE even more that - "Old man wants power."

 

R00fles!

[GhostofAnakin]

See, not mature. "

[Volourn]

It's much more mature to want power than to want destroy something 'spiritual' like the Force. What a tool.

[Kalfear]

"Proof is in the forums Volo.

 

If you wanna wade through all those old posts be my guess

 

Im sure not going to at this point in time! LOL"

 

Those types are in the minority. Same with the Obsidian fanboys who thought the oopposite.

 

 

"LOL, did I say EVERY BW fanboi. Nope I didnt! Thus ends your statement."

 

LOL I'm the bigbest BIO fanboy around yet I still don't fit yourd escription. R00fles!

 

 

"But its still more mature then K1 or JE"

 

No. JE has more maturity in its pinky thumb then the KOTOR series have combined in their entire bodies.

 

I'm sorry; but 'I must kill the force 'cause is evil!" is NOT mature.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ROFLMAO!

 

Beleive it or not, YOUR NOT the biggest fanboi around (sorry volo, yas just going to have to keep working at it, LOL).

 

Most of your stuff (except the obvious jabs you make) are based in reality.

 

For example, I know for a fact you think having 2 party NPCs in JE2 would be a step up! This means you actually see areas to improve the game! Right there you lose ultimate fanboi status.

 

Or you admit you played game completely with in 30 hours. The Ultimate Fanboi reads the 1000s of posts saying that and then replies with "Game took me 40-50 hours because I explore everything and enjoy Biowares writing". IE: they make things up at random so they can try and ignore any faults.

 

LOL, sorry Volo, you have aways to go to become the ultimate Fanboi (and its not something Id suggest to actually try for to be honest!).

 

I'm sorry; but 'I must kill the force 'cause is evil!" is NOT mature.

 

and exploding drunken rats IS mature? ROFLMGDAO!!!!!!!!

 

KotOR2 more mature then JE

Just accept it! Yas know yas wanna!

[Baley]

SW is not mature ...K2 might be mature compared to K1 ...but it's nothing compared to PS:t and FO :D

[Volourn]

"Beleive it or not, YOUR NOT the biggest fanboi around (sorry volo, yas just going to have to keep working at it, LOL)."

 

Damn. I gotta try harder. Though; seriosuly; I wish you'd point out these facts to others. There's a big difference between really enjoyinga company's games like my love for BIo games and blindly defendinga company's games inlduing tryintg to cover up what you yourself see as faults.

 

Of course, I think JE would be much better with 2+ npcs. I was all over BIO when they did that with NWN. Heck, I think having just 2 npcs in the KOTOR series is still not enough. I need at least the option to have 3 npcs in the aprty to be satisifed in that regard.

 

And, as for the time, i feel lying about how long it takes to finsiha game is just plain silly. It's not like you get bonuses for finishing a game in 15 hours or 40 hours.

 

 

"and exploding drunken rats IS mature? ROFLMGDAO!!!!!!!!"

 

Damn straight! Only those who are mature would 'get it'. :D

[Meshugger]

"Beleive it or not, YOUR NOT the biggest fanboi around (sorry volo, yas just going to have to keep working at it, LOL)."

 

Damn. I gotta try harder. Though; seriosuly; I wish you'd point out these facts to others. There's a big difference between really enjoyinga  company's games like my love for BIo games and blindly defendinga  company's games inlduing tryintg to cover up what you yourself see as faults.

 

Of course, I think JE would be much better with 2+ npcs. I was all over BIO when they did that with NWN. Heck, I think having just 2 npcs in the KOTOR series is still not enough. I need at least the option to have 3 npcs in the aprty to be satisifed in that regard.

 

And, as for the time, i feel lying about how long it takes to finsiha  game is just plain silly. It's not like you get bonuses for finishing a game in 15 hours or 40 hours.

 

 

"and exploding drunken rats IS mature? ROFLMGDAO!!!!!!!!"

 

Damn straight! Only those who are mature would 'get it'. :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed, imagine KotOR 1&2 and JE with ALL npc at the same time bantering and fighting among you? Hilarious!

[GhostofAnakin]

SW is not mature ...K2 might be mature compared to K1 ...but it's nothing compared to PS:t and FO   :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fallout is mature?

[Baley]

SW is not mature ...K2 might be mature compared to K1 ...but it's nothing compared to PS:t and FO   :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fallout is mature?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes :D

 

Compared to SW

[Kalfear]

"Beleive it or not, YOUR NOT the biggest fanboi around (sorry volo, yas just going to have to keep working at it, LOL)."

 

Damn. I gotta try harder. Though; seriosuly; I wish you'd point out these facts to others. There's a big difference between really enjoyinga  company's games like my love for BIo games and blindly defendinga  company's games inlduing tryintg to cover up what you yourself see as faults.

 

LOL, well to be honest, just other day I did try to do that (not regarding you, just a general comparrison) on Bioware boards.

 

All I got for my effort was a stupid fanboi rewriting the (OBVIOUS) meaning of my post and then flaming it like it was a personal attack on the designers.

 

So explaining it really doesnt seem to do alot of good to be honest (or thats the impression I get anyways).

 

Its like running head first into a brick wall over and over and over, so many times.

 

No matter what you say or do, the end result always going to be the same.

 

LOL, sometimes I REALLY wish I was Jay or Silent Bob (from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back) with a list of names and addresses of people who post on the internet! ROFL (that has to be one of my all time favorite scenes from a comedy).

[sotos]

For me KOTOR 2 is not bad as a story (except in the end which sucks)

 

But KOTOR 1 was much more polished and with not so many serious bugs as KOTOR2

 

 

KOTOR 1 was not perfect but it was way more stable and the story more intriguing even in the end

 

 

 

Except the bugs

KOTOR 2 starts with a interesting story but from the middle (from when you face Darth Nihilius ) and until end it becomes like a patchy work with a really sketchy ending

[TATPCTKB]

I've always thought one of K1s strengths was its simple story. In a game where you have two paths to the same relative outcome, its worked well to have kept that story basic. Become Jedi/Sith, find out you're real identity, Stop evil from prevailing/get revenge.

 

The supposively much more complex plot of K2 never really materalized for me. Kreia was a pretty simple character from the begining, her motives seemed black and white, even though the 'ends' wasn't really forseeable. I thought the death of the force motivation was the result of poor planning, and didn't even make it ti remotely plausable even in the Star Wars realm. The choices you made seemed pretty clear as to there results being 'good or bad'. In the end I was pretty dissappointed with the game, but I've had worse experiences

[Illbleed]

I enjoyed K1 much more than K2 and noooo .... i am not a bioware fanboi (NWN sucked " )

 

K2 disappointed me because :

 

*not enough sidequests (most quests are storyline related or solved in 10 min.)

 

*lame quests e.g. the murder case on Onderon .... its story related & absolute linear. The murder case in K1 on Manaan (when Bindo is in the party) was just a sidequest and much better scripted.

 

*a lot of boring partymembers (Bao Dur, Visas, G0t0 ...)

There were always new partymember-conversations unlocked in K1 during the whole game. In K2 there are always the same conversation options again and again or they have nothing to say because of the influence system.

 

*playtime

My first playthrough took me about 32 hours with most of the quests done.

In K1 it took me almost 50 hours and there were a lot of unsolved/undiscovered sidequests.

 

*the ending

I don't have to say much more hu?

What's the sense of the influence system when they cut out all the scenes where your actions (and influence) takes effect?

 

*bugs

I had no major bugs in K1 and K2 (lucky one) but i noticed that there are much more open ended quests in K2 than in K1. By the way ..... i never patched K1 - there was no need for me.

 

*combat

Too unbalanced

 

*graphics

It's a fact .... K1 looks better than K2. You don't think so? Take a look at HK47 or some of the alien textures. The planet surfaces and interiors too.

 

*music

I loved the K1 score .... don't know why the K2 is so lame imo. It's the same componist or not? Well, just a matter of taste.

 

K2 is a good game but its no more fun to play if you know what they cut out.

I hope Obsidian will make the third KotOR with enough time to show their skills.

I also hope the restoration team will be succesfull.

[Kalfear]

I enjoyed K1 much more than K2 and noooo .... i am not a bioware fanboi (NWN sucked  " )

 

K2 disappointed me because :

 

*not enough sidequests (most quests are storyline related or solved in 10 min.)

 

*lame quests e.g. the murder case on Onderon .... its story related & absolute linear. The murder case in K1 on Manaan (when Bindo is in the party) was just a sidequest and much better scripted.

 

*a lot of boring partymembers (Bao Dur, Visas, G0t0 ...)

There were always new partymember-conversations unlocked in K1 during the whole game. In K2 there are always the same conversation options again and again or they have nothing to say because of the influence system.

 

OMG, tell me this person didnt just lump Visas into same catagory as Go-To!!!!!

 

Dems fighting words!!!!!

 

Visas is the hottest female npc of any of the KotOR games (AND JE)!!!!!!

And she had a awsome back story as well

 

*playtime

My first playthrough took me about 32 hours with most of the quests done.

In K1 it took me almost 50 hours and there were a lot of unsolved/undiscovered sidequests.

 

Its stuff like this I just dont get.

K2 was a larger game, the storylines were less linear then K1. So how do you explain taking 18 extra hours on K1?

 

I mean if you liked K1 more thats fine, say that and no one should take exception as both were great games. But to say K1 takes 18 hours (minimum ) more is just wrong. Thats like saying JE takes 40+ hours to play.

 

I truely wish people would stop this stuff.

 

*the ending

I don't have to say much more hu?

What's the sense of the influence system when they cut out all the scenes where your actions (and influence) takes effect?

 

The ending sucked, no other way to say it.

 

But what did they cut out (that was SPECIFICALLY tied to influence system)? Sorry lost me there.

 

Ive looked at the Restoration stuff (great job by them) but sure havent seen any influence specific stuff cut from the end.

 

What yas talking about?

 

*bugs

I had no major bugs in K1 and K2 (lucky one) but i noticed that there are much more open ended quests in K2 than in K1. By the way ..... i never patched K1 - there was no need for me.

 

I didnt patch either. Had more bugs in K1 but neither game had game ending bugs (that a simple reboot couldnt fix).

 

*combat

Too unbalanced

 

hmmmm interesting.

 

Since K1 and K2 were almost identical in combat (K2 was slightly harder but nothing that warrents any real distinction), im wondering how you came to this conclusion?

 

Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion.

 

*graphics

It's a fact .... K1 looks better than K2. You don't think so? Take a look at HK47 or some of the alien textures. The planet surfaces and interiors too.

 

its a fact is it?

 

Wow, I must have missed that memo since both games use the EXACT same engine and graphics!!!! ROFLMAO!

 

Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion.

 

*music

I loved the K1 score .... don't know why the K2 is so lame imo. It's the same componist or not? Well, just a matter of taste.

 

I cant argue this as I really treat music as background noise only. (or turn it off and play a CD on stereo instead)

 

 

K2 is a good game but its no more fun to play if you know what they cut out.

I hope Obsidian will make the third KotOR with enough time to show their skills.

I also hope the restoration team will be succesfull.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

hmmm I know what they cut out and STILL find K2 more replayable then K1 because K1 is so linear. I know (from polls and posts on this web site) that a great many people found K2 to have the greater replay value.

 

Closing:

 

Sorry for tearing apart your post but Im getting tired of people making up false stuff about games to try and validate their opinions (be it KotOR1 or 2, JE, Civ 3, what ever). K2 had many faults (just like K1 had), no reason to make stuff up, just stick to the real issues. You like K1 more? Great, K1 was a great game. There is no reason to be ashamed of that by trying to tear down part 2 in areas that were well done.

[Grone]

"Grunker why do you prefer K2's scenario and not K1's? Did it have any twists? Was the exile an interesting character? I would vote 'no' to the above questions.":

 

The Exile was an interesting character, because there was so many twists and paradoxes in him. Being "force dead" here we suddenly had a jedi who wasn't pre-destined for anything, unlike all others. + All the NPC's were way more interesting than people like Mission, Zaalbar etc. (Except GoT0 (why-oh-why was he in the game?)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"There are just so many bugs in the game"

 

Where? I encountered one throughout the course of the game, where my game crashes while saving, a bug I also encountered during KotORI.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"PS: Question Grunker (not meant as a flame). You state your a role player. Im seeing this statement more and more on the web now aday for single player games.

 

What exactly do you do in game that makes you a roleplayer? See in a MMORPG roleplayers play a role and interact with others incharacter. In P&P you play a role and interact with other people incharacter.

 

In a single player RPG you DONT interact (which is the fundemental aspect of roleplaying) with other players because, well your alone! Hense why its called a single player game.

 

Sure you play a role, every single person that plays the game does, with in the paramenters of the game design. But to hear folks now adays, you dont consider every single person that plays game to be a roleplayer.

 

So my question is, what exactly do you do that makes you a role player rather then a player like everyone else in a single player game?

 

As I said, this not meant as a flame, im seriously wondering how you get the distinction.

 

Im an old MMORPG Role Player (back in oNWN on AOL in 1990). There I role played a drow by learning to speak the special language, writting stories, and trying to stay incharacter during impromptu conversations and situations while ingame. I played the role and interacted with others. So as a true Role Player from many years ago, the obviously new classification confuses me and Im just looking for someone to explain it to me please."

 

RolePlaying Gaming is charachterized by interacting with others in a (in the rules of the world you're playing in) realistic surroundings. The key to roleplaying is being able to identify with you charachter, and like when you're drawn into a book you're reading, be drawn into that character.

 

PCRPG (Personal Computer RolePlaying Gaming) must fill out some criteria to call itself an RPG. All uncommon persons in the game must have dialogue. A good PCRPG must have long, realistic and deep dialogue, especially for more important persons.

 

PCRPG is also characterized by free options. You choose where to go, when to go there, who to speak to and which quest to concentrate on, contrary to other games where the game chooses for you.

 

Besides that, RPG is more philosophical and more set upon bringing the player into the game than giving the player an actionfilled experience.

 

I've played D&D(Dungeons and Dragons), AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons), GURPS (Generic Universal RolePlaying System), Storyteller, White Wolf, and other systems for over seven years now, and I still play both that and Live Roleplaying including semi-live. AND I've written my own compendium filling out 150 pages so I think I've earned the right to say I know what I speak of

 

I don't take it as a flame, I'm actually glad that the question is posed because I agree that the term is misunderstood often. Just the other day, one of my friends call Deer Hunter an RPG *SHIVER*

 

But by the looks of the posts on this topic, KotORII isn't as hated as I thought it was thank god.

 

To the one who said Bioware has many fans:

 

Doesn't Obsidian to? I mean they're the old Black Isle.

[Baley]

Doesn't Obsidian to? I mean they're the old Black Isle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Black Isle is dead

Obsidian has a hand full of employess...but there are a lot of new face too

 

As for the fans...well I'm one :D ...you seem to be one too...and I'm sure there are others

 

Bioware has more fans because it released some great games and its been here for years...Obs is a new player but I'm hoping that it will reach Bio's popularity

[Darth Kavar]

I agree that K1 had better graphics -> just look at the sky in Dantooine in K1 and then in K2. Look at Taris, then at Nar Shaddaa, look at Kashyyk - then at Dxun. Just too many examples of where in K1 I just stood and marvelled at the sights, the beauty of the enviroment of the SW worlds -> and that was on MEDIUM QUALITY graphics setting!!!!

 

In K2 I just couldn't look at medium so I turned it on high but still it's... uhh when I see a blue sky in an only half-year old game have like only 5 variations of blue - (the gradient (?) or how's it called then) I really wish I could extract those textures and make them better even with my average graphic abilities.

[Illbleed]

posted by Kalfear

(Illbleed @ May 5 2005, 03:54 PM)

*playtime

My first playthrough took me about 32 hours with most of the quests done.

In K1 it took me almost 50 hours and there were a lot of unsolved/undiscovered sidequests.

 

 

Its stuff like this I just dont get.

K2 was a larger game, the storylines were less linear then K1. So how do you explain taking 18 extra hours on K1?

 

I mean if you liked K1 more thats fine, say that and no one should take exception as both were great games. But to say K1 takes 18 hours (minimum ) more is just wrong. Thats like saying JE takes 40+ hours to play.

 

I truely wish people would stop this stuff.

 

It's a fact. K1 took me almost 50 hours to finish, K2 about 32. If you like K2 more thats fine but don't say it's wrong .... i can send you the final savegames if you don't believe.

 

posted by Kalfear

(Illbleed @ May 5 2005, 03:54 PM)

 

*combat

Too unbalanced

 

 

hmmmm interesting.

 

Since K1 and K2 were almost identical in combat (K2 was slightly harder but nothing that warrents any real distinction), im wondering how you came to this conclusion?

 

Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion.

 

Take a look to some rpg forums ... there are a lot of people who agree with me.

Ever heard of the force bugs? Ever heard of the Rebalance or Hardcore mod?

There is a reason why these mods are made.

 

posted by Kalfear

(Illbleed @ May 5 2005, 03:54 PM)

*graphics

It's a fact .... K1 looks better than K2. You don't think so? Take a look at HK47 or some of the alien textures. The planet surfaces and interiors too.

 

 

its a fact is it?

 

Wow, I must have missed that memo since both games use the EXACT same engine and graphics!!!! ROFLMAO!

 

Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion.

 

 

OMG just take a look. Install K1 again .... play it and then play K2. You really need glasses if you don't see the difference. It's the same engine, yeah, this is why i do not understand the worse graphics (less effects).

 

 

posted by Kalfear

Sorry for tearing apart your post but Im getting tired of people making up false stuff about games to try and validate their opinions (be it KotOR1 or 2, JE, Civ 3, what ever).

 

I don't care if a game is made by Obsidian or Bioware or EA or whatever.

There is no reason for me to tell "false stuff" about K2 .... i waited for this game since i finished K1 for the first time. I had a lot of fun playing it. But K1 was better in my opinion .... i am tired of people who can't stand criticism on their favourite game.

[Volourn]

If so, then don't post on the net. People have every right to 'defend' their fvaorite game just like those who dislike games have the right to 'attack' games they eitehr dislike or were dissapointe din.

 

Rgar said, I have to say this:

 

Both KOTORs are about the same length as one other.

 

KOTOR2 was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easier than KOTOR1 even though KOTOR1 was actually easy

 

Boh KOTORs are as linear as one another. They both have the same replayability as in not replayable.

 

 

That is all.

[Baley]

Both KOTORs are about the same length as one other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

K2 tends to be bigger...not by much tho

 

KOTOR2 was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easier than KOTOR1 even though KOTOR1 was actually easy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I agree it's way easier

Boh KOTORs are as linear as one another. They both have the same replayability as in not replayable.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree about the first...the second tho I've finished twice...not a lot of RPGs out there