Volourn's Final Jade Empire Review: I Am The Law!

[GhostofAnakin]

Wow, lot's of spoilers there, GoA. Overall, i agree with your review though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Haha, well Volourn commented in his initial post that he'd be posting spoilers so people should beware. I figured if they've read this far, they were ready for spoilers.

[Volourn]

This is supposed to be a spoiler thread for those who have played/finished the game can disucss it. if people don't wanna read spoilers they can avoid it. There's always my 'early review' thread or they can start a new one if they wish.

 

Anyways...

 

 

"Refresh my memory. I might have just not caught on to Dawn Star's background."

 

Dawn Star is Master Li's daughter. if you recall, the Emperor (the eldest one) had them 'killed'. However, Lu was one of the Lotus Assassins sent to kill the daughter. He couldn't do it so killed the other assassins instead and sent Dawn to, of all places, to the Three Rivers School. You learn this in the LA stronghold.

 

In fact, you cna try to use this information against Master Li in both the ch6 final, and the ch 7 finals. However, he has one of the coldest reactions a man can have to his family I have ever seen in a game, movie, or tv show. If you can turn Dawn Star to the CF; she throws it harshly into his face as well.

 

Good fun.

[GhostofAnakin]

Weird. Does she have to be your activated follower at that point or something? Because I never learned that about her. I think I got about as far as finding out that she was brought to the Three Rivers School as a baby, and that Sagacious Zu was tasked to kill Master Li's family. I guess I missed out on that one important link between the two stories.

[Volourn]

You musta just missed it. I always had Dawn in my party so i cna't say if you need her or not for sure. It alsod epend what you do with Zu too.

 

Don't forget about that woman in Tien's Landing who teaches you Spirit Thie. She had ties to Zu and the misisng baby. perhaps you missed soemthing there too.

[GhostofAnakin]

Don't forget about that woman in Tien's Landing who teaches you Spirit Thie. She had ties to Zu and the misisng baby. perhaps you missed soemthing there too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope, I got that part. Which is why I figured the baby they were talking about was Dawn Star. I just never got the part where it was revealed who she was. I had Silver Fox with me the entire time I was in the Lotus Assassin stronghold.

[Fairplay]

It was okay. It was missing a lot and it seemed like they probably ran into problems making this game. One thing I really liked is that I don't think I ran into any bugs. I haven't completely explored the game, but I played through once.

 

Here are some of my views on Jade Empire:

 

On the combat system

 

The martial arts concept wasn't really done well. Each style had about four attacks and really, they only consisted of two basic attacks (mashing the quick attack button and strong attack) It doesn't really do a lot for the mystique or coolness of the fighting styles.

 

While the developers claimed that there were several fighting styles, there were basically only five styles to choose from: martial, weapon, magic, support, and transformation. For the most part, (with maybe one exception) the only difference between individual styles within the same category was the visual representation. Sure, the support and magic styles had slight differences but nothing that made them interesting.

 

I think it would have been better if magic was one style and the different elements corresponded to different attacks. While they were at it, they could have buffed up the other styles with more attacks too (perhaps unlockable moves) or even somehow combining support and martial styles to make more interesting fighting styles.

 

The RPG, Gothic had a somewhat similar combat system, but Gothic wasn't supposed to be a martial arts game and the game allowed more freedom and things to do.

 

The different enemy "types" was stupid too. Just make every style and enemy an individual instead of cramming everything into a few "types" and then giving them different skins and animation.

 

The follower system wasn't very good either.

 

Ultimately, swithching styles just didn't have the coolness of a kung-fu movie which is what the basic goal should have been.

 

On Tho Fan

 

Tho Fan was an interesting idea. However, in execution, it was more suited to a KOTOR game. While it was certainly better than the gibberish in those games, it didn't sound asian at all to me.

 

I don't know why they didn't just use some chinese dialect or at least developed a more chinese sounding language. Most of the characters already have Chinese names, so I don't know why they felt the need to create Tho Fan.

 

On the sounds, voice acting, and music

 

Not bad, but I kind of expected something great. KOTOR II did a great job with this. The GTA games do a good job and I liked the voice work in the previous Baldur's Gate (and even NWN) games better than what was done in Jade Empire. It wasn't horrible, but it could have been much much better.

 

Same with the music.

 

One thing I liked was how they included different comments based on the players choices. It wasn't used much, but there are places where different comments are made based on what character you chose and what nickname you might have picked.

 

 

On the story

 

I can't really complain too much about it since it kept me engaged, but upon reflection, it really isn't very good. I feel like a lot of the more interesting characters, like the Gaos, were wasted on this game.

 

I felt like the followers were not really developed. For me, that kind of ruins an RPG. That is my biggest complaint.

 

On miscellaneous things -I'm getting tired of making topics

 

I liked the faces. They looked good in the movies and when they were talking. It would have been much better if the audio was up to snuff.

 

The flyer was boring. It could have been much cooler.

 

They include a possible female-female romance but you don't get to see anything remotely good! What's up with that?!!!

 

Gems. Stupid. The Gem interface in the "making of" video looked better than what they had, but even if that made it in, the concept of gems are still stupid.

 

Techniques are a terrific idea but they turned them into plain old inventory items. You shouldn't "buy" techniques. They should be earned or discovered. There should be actual meaning to techniques. They should be accompanied by Alpha Centauri style movies. They really should have done the same thing with styles too.

 

It lacked art. The gems and were stupid, but it was inexcusable to just leave crappy placeholder art in for each item. At least make an effort!

 

What happened to the homebase? I read in a preview that you could select followers to send on important tasks. I was really looking forward to this, but I guess they had to cut it.

 

Anyway, my review of the game is that while it wasn't horrible, it suffered from many questionable design decisions and in addition seemed like a lot of the intended content, including a possibly great story, wasn't finished. The enviroment and game world wasn't really well developed either. However...No Bugs!

[Fairplay]

Oh yeah...

Open Palm and Closed Fist are stupid too. It's stupid in concept, but was especially stupid because it wasn't well developed and barely had any effect, AFAIK.

 

If they felt the need to have some sort of aggregate accounting of your actions, they might have included an "honor system" where you accrue honor for certain actions and possibly lose honor for a few dishonorable actions.

 

I'm not saying to take out good and evil choices. Just that there wasn't any point to a lightside/darkside meter.

 

One other thing that bugged me about the main story and world design was how spirits were treated. If Jade Empire was inspired by Chinese culture and mythology, I think spirits should have been venerated and treated more like living ancestors or possibly like family gods instead of like poltergeists and zombies that need to be put to rest.

 

Bioware made a big deal about how they wanted to make this game Asian-inspired, but they took a inappropriate and boring approach to the undead. Such a big deal was made out of "restless spirits" and there wasn't a single family shrine.

[GhostofAnakin]

We must have played two completely different games then.

[Volourn]

Jade Empire isn't China. Why are people expecting China? Did people do their research. And, anyone who likes KOTOR more than JE on anything other than non weapon skills really needs help.

 

JE is 1 million times better than KOTOR.

[GhostofAnakin]

You know, I also ran into another thing I was curious about. Do you get different companions depending on whether you are "good" or "bad"? Because by the end of the game I still had 2 empty party slots. One of them, I'm assuming, is for Death's Hand if you don't release him to death. But who is the other one?

[Volourn]

Yes, Death's Hand is one of them. The other is Wild Flower's second demon if you push for him to come out and then side with him at the start of ch4. This leads to WF having a very sad final ending.

 

Poor goodies get screwed in the follower side as there are no 'good people' only followers.. <_<

[GhostofAnakin]

Ah. I thought about that, but then I just figured that if you pushed for the "bad" demon, he'd just take up that same slot that WF is in now.

 

IMO, a couple of the slots were wasted. Kang the mad wasn't really a follower, since you couldn't use him in combat, and thus seemed better suited as just someone you'd meet at the "base" whenever you wanted to fly somewhere. And the Genie or whatever who sold you stuff was also a waste. I didn't really like Henpecked Hau either. He added comedy, but in terms of actual usefullness he was boring.

 

Off topic slightly, but something ironic. I had no clue who any of my NPCs were going to be, so I didn't know their names when I created my character. I named my guy Kang. So it was a bit of a shock to see someone else with the same name join me as a follower. :D

[Volourn]

Yeah, I agree with you about the genie and Kang. Theyw er eenterianing. i love the genie's comments when you enter his store though. LOL Of cours,e he's not really a genie. per se.

 

And, lol about the Kang twin story. :D Hey, it's just like RL. Sometimes, you bump into some with the same name!

[GhostofAnakin]

I finished it as Open Palm. Now I am trying to go through as Closed Fist. I'm finding it a bit trying, since a lot of the Closed Fist options seem to remind me of KOTOR's "thug" approach to the Dark Side.

[Kalfear]

Sarjahurmaaja: Here your example (only 1 but many available)

 

In part 2 you goto Teins Landing, they have been hurt by having a dam opened and you face a choice of leaving it open or closing it.

 

If you close it you get open palm increase. If you leave it open you get closed fist increase.

 

Leaving it open ensures the entire town will die off as boats cant get to them.

 

YET, a intellegent evil could in fact see the profit and advantage to closeing the dam to increase trade route. since you have saved the town anyways (curing the forest regardless which choice you make and killing the pirates) you are in a position to PROFIT from the town being profitable.

 

Yet once again you have to do the stupid act so you can get the closed palm increase.

 

Or anouther one is you end up saving this guy from thugs. There is a REALLY STUPID EXCHANGE in the boat house and you are faced with (to get the closed palm increase) forceing the guy to marry one of two women. One is obsessed and coo coo, the other is a good person but you can take all her money for doing the act. WoW, talk about smart, intellegent evils there!!!!!

[Volourn]

"Leaving it open ensures the entire town will die off as boats cant get to them.

 

YET, a intellegent evil could in fact see the profit and advantage to closeing the dam to increase trade route. since you have saved the town anyways (curing the forest regardless which choice you make and killing the pirates) you are in a position to PROFIT from the town being profitable"

 

You didn't talk to the one merchant, obviously. Everyone will not die. And, CF isn't always about being profitable 9though in JE it can mean that too). It's also about slef reliance. If the town cna't be self reliant to close the gates themsleves; it's their problem not yours.

 

Also from other thread:

 

That's not true. Look at how you handle the guy by the beach early in the game who has a debt with Gao the Greater. CF; but not evil or that girl in ch2 with the slavers...

 

The above was to help keep your thread spoiler free...

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

Hold on now, Kalfear - is the closed fist supposed to value strenght over all things (as you said in the other thread) or are they supposed to be 'just' evil? Because at least in the first example, it seems to make a world of difference: if it's the strenght thing, according to the closed fist philosophy, they don't have a right to live if they can't fight for it, no?

 

I can't really comment on the other example because I really can't get a clear picture of the situation from your description.

[Volourn]

CF is about self reliance; but as warned early in the game; you go toof ar CF you cna eaisly fall into the darkside and take it to the extreme. Just like taking OP to the extreme can lead to the darkside. Even the final villain can, in some ways, be considered OP.

[Kalfear]

Hold on now, Kalfear - is the closed fist supposed to value strenght over all things (as you said in the other thread) or are they supposed to be 'just' evil? Because at least in the first example, it seems to make a world of difference: if it's the strenght thing, according to the closed fist philosophy, they don't have a right to live if they can't fight for it, no?

 

I can't really comment on the other example because I really can't get a clear picture of the situation from your description.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its about self reliance

 

You would really have to talk to Smiling Mountain in game to understand it (I dont have his answer memorized) but he gives a GREAT example about what a closed fist would do if he saw someone being beaten up.

 

Basically, (very loosely translated) if he saw someone being beaten up, a evil person would stand back and watch for the sake of watching. A closed fist "MIGHT" ignore it and walk by. Both result in person taking the beating but the reasoning is different. Where as the evil enjoys the strife of others, the closed fist person would justify it as the person needs to be stronger to protect himself.

 

BUT (to expand, based on explanation given by Bioware on their site) if say two people were beating on the person he might jump in because 2 on 1 is not a fair fight so that would change the outlook of the closed fist person.

 

So if you go by that definition, since no one in the town is strong enough to fight the Lotus Assassins, the closed fist very well might close the dam as he veiws it as a unfair challenge.

 

But no where in the game do you get to justify your actions. you take the evilest most hurt full option and get your increase. Regardless of principles of the philosiphy.

 

Hope that explains it better, its kinda hard to explain, when you play the game you will see what Im refering to here.

 

 

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Just thought up the perfect example!!!!

 

THE ARENA vrs the Ravanger!!!!

 

Black Whirlwind asks you to take your place in the final battle. To get a CF increase you need to refuse him (and insult him yet again). To get a open palm increase you accept his request.

 

But wouldnt his request, in itself (since hes ASKING to show his power and str) be something a CF follower would not only acknowledge but respect?? Yet the only way to follow CF is to refuse his request and insult him for no reason (something like go back to the ship, your useless, blah blah blah).

[Volourn]

Well.. I agree ins ome ways. However, since it was your PC doing all the fighting through the torunament why should your PC step down and 'look' weak by not completing the tournament on your own? I think in thats cenario, there should be OP/CF points awarded...

 

I alreayd gave you two examples of where CF is done very well in the game...

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"So if you go by that definition, since no one in the town is strong enough to fight the Lotus Assassins, the closed fist very well might close the dam as he veiws it as a unfair challenge."

 

Do the Lotus Assassins have any kind of unfair advantage, or are they just more skilled? Because, again, basing on what you wrote, it's what makes the difference.

[Drakron]

Tricky but no.

 

CF is also about deserving power, BW can only battle the Revanger because other allowed him to takes his place.

 

CF is not about power, its also earning power.

[Kalfear]

"So if you go by that definition, since no one in the town is strong enough to fight the Lotus Assassins, the closed fist very well might close the dam as he veiws it as a unfair challenge."

 

Do the Lotus Assassins have any kind of unfair advantage, or are they just more skilled? Because, again, basing on what you wrote, it's what makes the difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL, trust me when I say Lotus Assassins have a HUGE HUGE Advantage over normal townsfolks.

 

PLUS: Lotus assassins kidnaped your master, destroyed your school, killed everyone (but 1) you grew up with, and are the reason your on your quest.

 

Never thought of it before but closeing the dam just to piss off the Lotus Assassins also more then enough reason to do it. By closing it you are PROVING your stronger then they are!

[Volourn]

"Never thought of it before but closeing the dam just to piss off the Lotus Assassins also more then enough reason to do it. By closing it you are PROVING your stronger then they are!"

 

Um... You do that by opening it anyways since you have to deal with them one wya or the other to reach it. Opening or closing the dam doesn't effect that.

 

 

"LOL, trust me when I say Lotus Assassins have a HUGE HUGE Advantage over normal townsfolks."

 

Yeah; but they earned that advanatge through their hard work and training while the townsfolk sit around all day and whine about how much life sucks in Tien's Landing and poor little them and the poor little flood.

[Drakron]

Come on, Lotus Assassins are trained soldiers as Tien's Landing population is most of fishermen, dockworkers and merchents.

 

I dont see the Dam being open or closed as a "unfair advantage" to either side, the Lotus Assassins open it because they wanted to search the old Tien's Landing ruins ... a means to a end, the fact it was hurting the town was simply a consequence of that action.