LOSE THE F^_^ING CUT SCENES

[Diogo Ribeiro]

You are sidestepping the point.

 

Character creation is always relevant and important to roleplaying. No, character creation != roleplaying, but you will have an inferior roleplaying experience if you separate both. Thats not to say a game can't give you the same, or even better, roleplaying options than a game that doesn't have a diverse character creation (an example would be a game with a plethora of options but weak roleplaying such as Baldur's Gate 2, versus a game with many more and much better roleplaying options, Torment, which doesn't have character creation, just statistical point attribution). But you assume that character creation isn't important to RPing, when it is by the sole fact that roleplaying is primarily about deciding to play a character of your own creation. Customizing abilities to flesh out the character you want to play allow for a much wider range of roleplaying possibilties than a pre-made character.

 

Here DE is clearly the winner, both games are completely linear till the end, but DE has three endings, KotOR two.

So, DE is more of an RPG, because it has one more ending than KoTOR? <_<

 

DE also has a better plot, better story and a better PC.

 

Subjective, subjective and subjective. Check.

[Karzak]

Character creation is always relevant and important to roleplaying. No, character creation != roleplaying, but you will have an inferior roleplaying experience if you separate both.

Oh, that explains why NWN OC is a better roleplaying experiance than PS:T.

[Aegeri]

Uh... Perhaps, that's because he's *not* trying to convince you but giving his opinion.

Opinions are worthless if not backed up by anything substantial.

 

Here DE is clearly the winner, both games are completely linear till the end, but DE has three endings, KotOR two.

 

Except that in both games, the three endings are not decided by any of your 'roleplaying' throughout the game because you can do either/any of them without any problem at the end of the game. Deus Ex is especially guilty of this because you can do all three endings very simply with just the one character. This makes all that character generation and any 'roleplaying' (or what you probably want to think is roleplaying) utterly irrelevant.

 

This argument falls to bits pretty fast.

[tripleRRR]

I agree with Aegeri, it was pretty pathetic that you whatever you did to work toward one ending did not affect the others. DE2 has the same problem, until near the very end you could just work for whoever you wanted to until you had to pick who you wanted to give the goodies too.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Joren DarkStar]

"You will NOT be able to make everyone happy."

 

They're not trying to make everyone happy. They're trying to make themselves happy. It is not their business whether or not Obsidian Entertainment makes loads of cash. They're telling the people at Obsidian what they want to see, not what they think others like. Obsidian's success is not their responsibility.

 

"Granted, we do not know what the game in development is right now, but I think that those who don't want KOTOR 2, or want to change it into something non-KOTOR if it is indeed that, should not post in the KOTOR-themed threads - leave that be for the fans who think this is KOTOR 2, and are eagerly awaiting a sequel."

 

You are doing exactly the same thing as they are: trying to get Obsidian make the game you want. Too bad you're telling them to shut up, because what they're requesting isn't what you want.

 

Fans shouldn't get any special privileges.

A) If Obsidian's success is not their responsibility, then their happiness is not Obsidian's responsibility. Obsidian's responsibility is to create a game that is fun to play, and if they are smart businessmen and women, they will tap into an already successful niche, rather than try for a whole new niche in an effort to try to appease a whole new group of players. The idea is to not lose the fan base you get with the first game - which, let's face it, if this is KOTOR 2 with new Characters, the only reason to call it KOTOR 2 is to appeal to the fans of KOTOR 1, even though the stories are unrelated.

 

Then again, I do not mistake you for being a smart businessman. Or even smart.

 

 

B ) Fans do get some special priviledges nowadays. The developers who have an ear to what the fans want, and can give them some of what they want, ultimately generate a more positive buzz for the game, and garner themselves more sales. The trick for the developer is to learn what to compromise, and what to hold fast to. Even more important is if they are dealing with an established license that already has a hit game under it, to which they are making the sequel. If the game does not play like an improved version of the original (speaking of gameplay and intangeables here), the results could be disasterous in terms of profit. And if no profit, then no more games.

 

So yes, I am telling the non-Kotor fans to shut up, but only in KOTOR threads, because what they want does not fit what players of the original KOTOR expect, and it would be a HUGE gamble to possibly disenfranchise an already established player base.

 

Again, its called smart businesss. Something you apparently know nothing about, nor care to know. Tough crap for you, then.

[tripleRRR]

Please Joren, this is a discussion board, everybody has the right to express their opinions, whether or not they agree with your's or anyone else's.

 

So lets just try to keep this civil shall we.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Character creation is always relevant and important to roleplaying. No, character creation != roleplaying, but you will have an inferior roleplaying experience if you separate both.

Oh, that explains why NWN OC is a better roleplaying experiance than PS:T.

No, it explains why NWN is more about roleplaying your character than a premade one.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"If Obsidian's success is not their responsibility, then their happiness is not Obsidian's responsibility. Obsidian's responsibility is to create a game that is fun to play, and if they are smart businessmen and women, they will tap into an already successful niche, rather than try for a whole new niche in an effort to try to appease a whole new group of players."

 

Whoever said Obsidian's responsibility was the happiness of a few geeks voicing their opinions in Obsidian's forums? Obsidian is here to make money with their products.

 

"Obsidian's responsibility is to create a game that is fun to play, and if they are smart businessmen and women, they will tap into an already successful niche, rather than try for a whole new niche in an effort to try to appease a whole new group of players. The idea is to not lose the fan base you get with the first game - which, let's face it, if this is KOTOR 2 with new Characters, the only reason to call it KOTOR 2 is to appeal to the fans of KOTOR 1, even though the stories are unrelated."

 

It's not my business to run Obsidian Entertainment. I don't need to take into consideration my idea's possible effect on sales when I make a suggestion. I don't work at Obsidian. Neither do you, so cut the sales crap, because it's none of mine or your business.

 

"So yes, I am telling the non-Kotor fans to shut up, but only in KOTOR threads, because what they want does not fit what players of the original KOTOR expect, and it would be a HUGE gamble to possibly disenfranchise an already established player base."

 

Unless you're working for Obsidian, you really shouldn't give a damn. And I bet you don't, you're just trying to use the sales argument to support your own opinions. Too bad I don't care.

 

"Then again, I do not mistake you for being a smart businessman. Or even smart."

 

Boohoo, I think I'll go cry in the bathroom now. Not.

 

I'm allowed to express my opinions here without taking into account the monetary interests of Obsidian Entertainment. Don't like it? Tough.

 

Oh, and just to be clear:

 

I DO NOT WORK FOR OBSIDIAN!

I DON'T HAVE TO GIVE A s*** IF THEIR NEW GAME SELLS ONLY THREE COPIES!

[Hubert the Beardless]

The thing about KotOR is that it is a console game, even the PC version, and it plays like a console game.

 

Too bad the combat was mediocre, at least JA had good combat, not just click a box over an enemy four times ad nausium.

I missed this one, so I bring it up.

 

See, in KOTOR, you are a badass when you build your character right. The experience you gain in game are represented by points you spend to build up your character the way you like it. The fun is building your character the right way, aquiring skills/feats, and using those skills/feats during combat. It practically is a more tactical, turn-based combat.

 

In Jedi Academy you are a badass if you have a certain game experience which translates you know how to time your button hitting.

 

I enjoy them both. I loaded the Jedi Outcast demo's last level several times just for the fun of fighting two Dark Jedis. It really requires good reflexes, knowing the combos, timing your Force powers, and it gives tremendous fun, too.

 

But I think it is pointless to try to have both systems in one game. If you've had the second, real time system applied, than a player with good reflexes could play trough as a level 1 character. While the Star Wars setting and the third person view lured a lot of FPS fans to the game (unfamiliar with RPGs), I can understand their frustration. Most of them realised what the game supoosed to bring, and they might be RPG fans in the future. Others, for who this kind of approach was too alien, they stopped playing. They remain FPS fans.

 

So the problem isn't that KoTOR is a console game. The problem for some people is that KoTOR is a RPG.

 

PS. Oops ! I just saw how this last statement was argued here. Well, for me, KoTOR is a role playing game, a game in which I must play a very specific role, but I still have the possibility to create and build my character. I guess it fits into my knowledge about RPG's. Those who want better roleplaying go and play PnP or NWN multiplayer with a good DM. Singleplayer games must have a plot, a story in order to achive immersion and a goal for the player, and so they must be restrictive.

[Karzak]

So the problem isn't that KoTOR is a console game. The problem for some people is that KoTOR is a RPG.

The problem is the same one Bio had in NWN, trying to please too many people and not doing a good job for any specific group.

 

KotOR is an RPG, just not a good one for RPG fans. It is a good action game, if you aren't a hard core action fan. It is a good console game, I guess, but it ain't super mario.

 

Bio can do well with this type of effort as long as they have D&D or SW to work with. A game can be mediocre and still sell well and get good reviews if you have a popular, known gameworld.

 

KotORII will do well no matter what they do to it, especially if it is released on console and PC, or console only. It will be hard to screw that one up. (unless the third new SW movie is bad enough to actually kill all the SW fans outright, a distinct possibility).

[Iolo]

They better not screw up the third Star Wars movie. The descent into becoming Darth Vader is too good a story to screw up, which is actually why I think Star Wars would have been better server by NOT doing the prequel movies so that the memory of the originals wasn't affected.

[Karzak]

Lets see, the first prequil was bad, the second on worse, lets see how the third one goes.

 

I'll be suprised if its better than "attack of the killer tomatoes"

[roshan]

jar jar binks wassa enougha to ruina the first two moviesa.

[Karzak]

jar jar binks wassa enougha to ruina the first two moviesa.

I heard they make him a jedi in the third one.

 

jar jar jedi

[Hubert the Beardless]

Poor Jar jar ... Lightsabers are not kind to clumsy wannabe Jedis.

I hope we'll see him decapitate himself. Then they'll give him C3PO's head, like they did for Luke's hand in The Empire Strikes back.